NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[STL FANATIC]

I think the best source I've heard from throughout the past few years was Dan Dierdorf. He was the Chairman of the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, which operates and serves as de facto owners (for the city) of the Dome. He stepped down (normal appointments are two years, he hung around about three) a few years ago, and I'm unclear on whether he remains a board member or not.

Nonetheless, he's very familiar with the Dome and the lease. He was part of the similar process in 2005.

He's never given specifics, but he's expressed concern that it's going to be a difficult process to get through, depending on the intentions of the owner. And in lieu of the actual lease, that tells you that whatever the clause says, it's not something that's easily worked around.

Dierdorf never expressed the idea that it was impossible either, but he certainly warned it wouldn't be easy and that there are no guarantees.

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Addressing just the last point (EDIT: by Gothamite): I don't think the concourse widths were unusually small. I can't image that they somehow fell out of the top 25 percent of concourse widths.

As I said before, there are obvious areas that could be sectioned off for "club" seats. Heck, Cowboys Stadium pretty much makes the sidelines dead ends (club seats only) until the third or fourth levels, so any team could do that.

Everyone says this was built bare bones. If so, they've definitely made improvements, because as a first time visitor it didn't come off as all that horrifying. But then again, I see most of my games at Wrigley. Full disclosure: I'm a sucker for stadiums and enjoy visiting new ones. I made it a St. Louis doubleheader just in case one or both of the Rams and Blues are soon to leave. I thought Scottrade felt more dated than the Dome. But then again, I'm probably comparing it to United Center.

[Gothamite]

I think the best source I've heard from throughout the past few years was Dan Dierdorf. He was the Chairman of the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, which operates and serves as de facto owners (for the city) of the Dome. He stepped down (normal appointments are two years, he hung around about three) a few years ago, and I'm unclear on whether he remains a board member or not.

Nonetheless, he's very familiar with the Dome and the lease. He was part of the similar process in 2005.

He's never given specifics, but he's expressed concern that it's going to be a difficult process to get through, depending on the intentions of the owner. And in lieu of the actual lease, that tells you that whatever the clause says, it's not something that's easily worked around.

Dierdorf never expressed the idea that it was impossible either, but he certainly warned it wouldn't be easy and that there are no guarantees.

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

Interesting. I didnt know that about Dierdorf.

I think we'll know pretty quickly how serious the city is about keeping the team, based on their proposal in February.

And one thing I've raised before is that I'm not sure the NFL would let Kroenke void the escape clause if the city can't cough up the cash. There is a huge disincentive towards setting the precedent that teams won't hold their cities responsible for the conditions of their leases.

[rams80]

A column from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch on Pujols' exit being a trial run for the Rams' exit:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/bill-mcclellan/pujols-exit-was-trial-run-for-rams-departure/article_a10ef672-0c07-5c82-ac39-e241516ef19e.html

And I'll agree that the "BFIB" make for some strange football fans. Maybe it's just because the Rams are so bad, but booing vehemently when they kick a FG to tie on 4th and 3 from the 8? Odd.

You haven't seen the Rams offense all season. Getting into the red zone is hard enough without the coaching staff going hyper conservative every down. We just want them to play a little more balls to the wall and attack rather than "settling" against a better team.

(Also we know our defense will inevitably get worn down, so we need all the points we can get.)

[CubsFanBudMan]

Someone on that comment board also said the PSLs were for 30 years. Not sure how that affects anything.

[rams80]

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

Personally, I think if any member of the coaching staff or Billy Devaney survives this season, that's a sign right there he's planning on moving. After this year, anything BESIDES a complete front office purge would be very unpopular.

[bosrs1]

Addressing just the last point (EDIT: by Gothamite): I don't think the concourse widths were unusually small. I can't image that they somehow fell out of the top 25 percent of concourse widths.

As I said before, there are obvious areas that could be sectioned off for "club" seats. Heck, Cowboys Stadium pretty much makes the sidelines dead ends (club seats only) until the third or fourth levels, so any team could do that.

Everyone says this was built bare bones. If so, they've definitely made improvements, because as a first time visitor it didn't come off as all that horrifying. But then again, I see most of my games at Wrigley. Full disclosure: I'm a sucker for stadiums and enjoy visiting new ones. I made it a St. Louis doubleheader just in case one or both of the Rams and Blues are soon to leave. I thought Scottrade felt more dated than the Dome. But then again, I'm probably comparing it to United Center.

Don't feel bad. You're not the only one who doesn't see how Edward Jones Dome is outdated based on all the photos I've seen and reports I've read. But my experience with NFL stadiums in person is also sadly limited to only the Oakland Coliseum, Candlestick Park, Qualcomm Stadium and Centurylink Field (the former 3 all usually ranked as 3 of the worst in the NFL). Still from my POV it looks like a great football stadium.

[STL FANATIC]

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

Personally, I think if any member of the coaching staff or Billy Devaney survives this season, that's a sign right there he's planning on moving. After this year, anything BESIDES a complete front office purge would be very unpopular.

I can listen to an argument to keep Spags. I fall on the fire him side, but do see positives in him.

But if Devanney is still around, I'll tend to agree.

[dfwabel]

I think the best source I've heard from throughout the past few years was Dan Dierdorf. He was the Chairman of the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, which operates and serves as de facto owners (for the city) of the Dome. He stepped down (normal appointments are two years, he hung around about three) a few years ago, and I'm unclear on whether he remains a board member or not.

Nonetheless, he's very familiar with the Dome and the lease. He was part of the similar process in 2005.

He's never given specifics, but he's expressed concern that it's going to be a difficult process to get through, depending on the intentions of the owner. And in lieu of the actual lease, that tells you that whatever the clause says, it's not something that's easily worked around.

Dierdorf never expressed the idea that it was impossible either, but he certainly warned it wouldn't be easy and that there are no guarantees.

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

That's close, but not quite how it works.

Part 1: The St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority was formed The State, St. Louis City and St. Louis County paid for the dome as part of the expansion of America's Center and are legally considered "Sponsors" of the project. The Authority owns the dome.

Part 2: The Authority signed a lease with the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission (CVC). The CVC operates the entire complex and pays insurance on the Dome, but maintenance and preservation is the responsibility of the Authority.

Part 3: The CVC has a sublease with the Rams. That is the most important link in the chain. That lease is hard to locate, but there are some docs in the St. Louis Public Library site from public meetings in which certain ordinances have lease language.

Also, realize that the NFL is restarting the G4 funding program since they have new long term TV contracts signed. That money can only be used in your current city. So Ziggy Wulf could use it in the Twin Cities, but not for Los Angeles and like wise for any other owner.

[bosrs1]

I think the best source I've heard from throughout the past few years was Dan Dierdorf. He was the Chairman of the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, which operates and serves as de facto owners (for the city) of the Dome. He stepped down (normal appointments are two years, he hung around about three) a few years ago, and I'm unclear on whether he remains a board member or not.

Nonetheless, he's very familiar with the Dome and the lease. He was part of the similar process in 2005.

He's never given specifics, but he's expressed concern that it's going to be a difficult process to get through, depending on the intentions of the owner. And in lieu of the actual lease, that tells you that whatever the clause says, it's not something that's easily worked around.

Dierdorf never expressed the idea that it was impossible either, but he certainly warned it wouldn't be easy and that there are no guarantees.

The bottom line remains that this probably hinges on Stan Kroenke's intentions. If he wants the easiest, quickest, and most guaranteed money, and he doesn't care how or where he gets it, he'll have no problem getting out of the lease and leaving for LA, I'm sure. His intentions are yet to be seen, even a little bit, however. And that's really the wild card at play here.

We'll know a bit more in a couple months, I suppose, but I imagine we'll be a long ways from resolution.

That's close, but not quite how it works.

Part 1: The St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority was formed The State, St. Louis City and St. Louis County paid for the dome as part of the expansion of America's Center and are legally considered "Sponsors" of the project. The Authority owns the dome.

Part 2: The Authority signed a lease with the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission (CVC). The CVC operates the entire complex and pays insurance on the Dome, but maintenance and preservation is the responsibility of the Authority.

Part 3: The CVC has a sublease with the Rams. That is the most important link in the chain. That lease is hard to locate, but there are some docs in the St. Louis Public Library site from public meetings in which certain ordinances have lease language.

Also, realize that the NFL is restarting the G4 funding program since they have new long term TV contracts signed. That money can only be used in your current city. So Ziggy Wulf could use it in the Twin Cities, but not for Los Angeles and like wise for any other owner.

The current owners can't use it in their current city that's true. But if they sell a portion of the team to AEG (which they must to move to LA), AEG can get a 200 million portion of G4 for themselves in LA. Don't fool yourself, G4 will be paying for part of the LA stadium as well. They made that clear when the CBA was signed. It really will come down to which owner is tired enough of running their team that they're going to cede a substantial portion to either Roski or AEG.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Apparently Peter King said on Sunday Night Football that a Vikings stadium deal to keep the team in Minnesota is close. I read it on CBS' Eye on Football blog. Not much more than that was available.

[bosrs1]

Apparently Peter King said on Sunday Night Football that a Vikings stadium deal to keep the team in Minnesota is close. I read it on CBS' Eye on Football blog. Not much more than that was available.

Pretty much as expected. No one seriously thoight the Vikings would leave Minnesota. And the Niners are now locked into The Bay Area. Which leaves just the Rams, Jags, Chargers, Bills and maybe the Raiders (if the NFL isn't successful in pushing them to Santa Clara) as LA options.

[bosrs1]

Chargers stadium plans in San Diego and any stadium/ballpark/arena plans in Oakland just took another body shot. The State Supreme Court of California has just killed redevelopment agencies in the state. Both San Diego and Oakland were depending on at least some redevelopment money to build either their stadiums or the infrastructure around them. Not sure how much money San Diego is out, but Oakland is out 250 million dollars that they were going to put toward either buying land and building infrastructure around the so called "Victory Court" site for the A's new ballpark, or more recently they were favoring putting it toward their new "Coliseum City" concept for a new stadium and/or ballpark and/or arena for one or more of their existing teams (Raiders, A's, Warriors).

LA's stadium is unaffected and is going to look that much more enticing to both franchises as a result.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19639441

[Buffalo]

One more point to rebut the "all you need is a bucket of paint and a plasma screen TV to fix up the EJD" crowd. Most of the Rams fanbase (such as it is) thinks the stadium is a dump.

Guess it's all a matter of perspective. I've seen many NFL games over the years, but to date all of my in person experiences have been at Candlestick Park, Qualcomm Stadium and the Oakland Coliseum. So you'll have to excuse me if I see the Rams and their fans as being spoiled.

I've been to NFL games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (BUF), Solider Field (CHI) both are true stadium experiences. When I saw the Bills play the Rams in St. Louis 3 years ago, I was struck by how sterile and "corporate" their stadium was... the EJD is like a mall with carpeted hallways... maybe more like an airport than a sports venue.

Now it's not exactly a great atmosphere for sports, but its definitely not a dump.

Wrigley Field is a DUMP... the EJD is not.

[STL FANATIC]

One more point to rebut the "all you need is a bucket of paint and a plasma screen TV to fix up the EJD" crowd. Most of the Rams fanbase (such as it is) thinks the stadium is a dump.

Guess it's all a matter of perspective. I've seen many NFL games over the years, but to date all of my in person experiences have been at Candlestick Park, Qualcomm Stadium and the Oakland Coliseum. So you'll have to excuse me if I see the Rams and their fans as being spoiled.

I've been to NFL games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (BUF), Solider Field (CHI) both are true stadium experiences. When I saw the Bills play the Rams in St. Louis 3 years ago, I was struck by how sterile and "corporate" their stadium was... the EJD is like a mall with carpeted hallways... maybe more like an airport than a sports venue.

Now it's not exactly a great atmosphere for sports, but its definitely not a dump.

Wrigley Field is a DUMP... the EJD is not.

Having just experienced the Georgia Dome, I can say at the very worst, the EJD is on the same level. And it may be better.

The bottom line is that an exciting football game makes stadiums like that (which are simply fine on their own), pretty darn good.

Now, none of that is relevant to the fact that the lease says the EJD has to be really good on it's own. But it is relevant when people complain about it being bad. It's really not. It's just nothing special either.

[Gothamite]

It's not really about the Dome being a dump or not. It's about whether or not the Dome can meet certain specified marks in terms of merchandising points, consourse widths, number of luxury boxes, number and quality of food vendors, ancillary facilities, seat widths, and anything else that was written into the lease.

And considering the Dome's age, and how many stadiums have been built or gut-removated since then, I'd be surprised if it can meet any significant number of those marks. St. Louis is about to find out what Los Angeles already knew, that Georgia Frontiere wasn't actually very sentimental when it came to money.

[Pizzaman7294]

ive been to the Metrodome and the Georgia Dome. The Georgia Dome just simply blows away the Metrodome. Its that simple. If the Falcons wanted they could keep playing there for 20 more years.

[nuordr]

Yeah, I like it. Very au courant.

Here's the old roof design, for comparison:

And from the inside, new and old:

I would prefer and NFL team to play at the stadium below rather than at Farmers:

[The_Admiral]

Just out of curiosity, nuordr, did you change your av because you felt like it, or was the change foisted upon you?

[Gothamite]

I would prefer and NFL team to play at the stadium below rather than at Farmers:

As would I. I love that design.