Cosmic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 6 hours ago, the admiral said: 7 hours ago, Cosmic said: The Leafs belong with the Sabres. Or the Blackhawks and Red Wings. I gotta side with history over proximity on this one (and two other cities in the Great Lakes region isn't even wonky NFC East Dallas geography in the first place). Sure, go with history. The first year the Sabres came into the league was the first year alignment wasn't strictly expansion/O6, so it also makes a good reference point for the Leafs' "home" conference. They took a 17 year sojourn out to the Norris/West, but they've been in the same division with the Sabres for 28 years and counting. Just because it was the situation when you were a kid doesn't make it more important. At this point, you'd also be taking them away from the Canadiens and the Sens. Putting Toronto in the West at this point is overthinking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Well, the situation when I was a kid is going to unduly inform my thoughts; such is life. Also, that 17-year span includes the '80s and early '90s, which by the NHL's historically poor standards was what passes for franchise stability and enjoyable product. Plus with the way the NHL has shoved the Original Six down our throats, it's hard to avoid. I've never felt all that jazzed about a Leafs-Sabres rivalry, which to me never rose above Ontarians popping off about how crossing the border for road games kept Buffalo's franchise from going bankrupt. Technically, nothing could make a rivalry fiercer than an existential crisis, but I don't know, not coming together for me. The 1994 Hawks-Leafs series is burned into my mind forever for some reason. I think games from it were on ESPN Classic like once a week when I was in high school. That they'd lose the Eastern Canadian rivalries for Winnipeg and Minnesota/St. Louis doesn't escape me, and I'll admit that's a flaw, but I'm sure Leafs fans could crap all over Jets fans just as well as they do Sens fans. Maybe reducing Leafs-Habs to two games a year would give the games more majesty? both HNIC games and national events instead of weeknight engagements? idk 2 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 1 hour ago, the admiral said: Ontarians popping off about how crossing the border for road games kept Buffalo's franchise from going bankrupt didn't work Edit: The Leafs and the Sabres have rarely been good at the same time since the Leafs came back to the East, and that certainly has hurt things. It was great around the time of the Eastern Conference Final circa 2000. I don't expect people in Chicago to get excited about it, but the rivalry has persisted despite the suckitude. With the Sabres and the Leafs set to be at least decent again in the coming years, I think the rivalry will bloom again... maybe even turn into one that gets a little attention around the league. Also, in a league where ticket revenue is still pretty important, rivalries that only local fans care about isn't the worst thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Eh, I'm always torn on this. I tend to lean towards the Leafs in the West with the 'Hawks and 'Wings. Partly for symmetry. Half the O6 in the East, half the O6 in the West. It's also sort of cultural. I tend to think of southern Ontario more as part of North America's Midwest/Great Lakes region and less as part of the continent's "East." Both in terms of geography and culture. Losing the Sabres, Habs, and Sens would be a huge blow but hypothetical rivalries with the 'Hawks, 'Wings, and Jets would help balance that out. Besides, there's an argument to be made that the Habs rivalry has been diluted due to overexposure. The Sabres games are always fun even when both teams are terrible, just due to fan experience alone. So losing that would definitely suck, but I donno. It's not an easy choice by any means, but if I had to choose? Send the Leafs back West, on the condition that we take Detroit with us. Quote PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 16 hours ago, HedleyLamarr said: Why have the legacy team switch conferences when Columbus hasn't quite paid their dues? They've been around for over 15 years now.....surely they're still not dependent on Penguins fans helping boost their ticket sales, are they? You're the lone pro team in town once Ohio State football ends (OSU basketball is no Goliath to take down). It wasn't about "paid dues". The Thrashers moving West meant an open spot in the East. Someone had to go East and Columbus was geographically the easternmost city in the west and made the most sense to move East. It's not our fault that Detroit threw a fit and said "We're the goddamn Red Wings. You have to bend overbackward for us." They're the one who upset the balance. Not Columbus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 59 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said: I tend to think of southern Ontario more as part of North America's Midwest/Great Lakes region and less as part of the continent's "East." Both in terms of geography and culture. I totally agree with this for Toronto and Buffalo. I think it's very strange that we're in the "Atlantic" division. Geography, culture, etc. are Midwest, but I'd still keep them both in the East for hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 53 minutes ago, McCarthy said: It wasn't about "paid dues". The Thrashers moving West meant an open spot in the East. Someone had to go East and Columbus was geographically the easternmost city in the west and made the most sense to move East. It's not our fault that Detroit threw a fit and said "We're the goddamn Red Wings. You have to bend overbackward for us." They're the one who upset the balance. Not Columbus. Yeah. Columbus was geographically the more eastern city, and it had less ties to the Western Conference compared to the Red Wings. It should have been Columbus and Columbus only. The Red Wings won four Cups and routinely ranked in the upper tier of the league when it came to attendance and tv ratings during their stint in the West. I don't buy the argument that they were suffering in the West. At all. 6 minutes ago, Cosmic said: I totally agree with this for Toronto and Buffalo. I think it's very strange that we're in the "Atlantic" division. Geography, culture, etc. are Midwest, but I'd still keep them both in the East for hockey. We're also in a division with Miami and Tampa! Actually very few Atlantic Division teams are actually on the Atlantic. The whole thing's a mess, and the Red Wings for demanding the league bend over backwards for them. Quote PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Yeah, Buffalo would have to stay in the East despite being, as we learned this summer, bizarro Chicago. My ideal Adams Division would have been Boston, Buffalo, Hartford, Montreal, and Quebec, plus Ottawa and Hamilton. That'd be a weird little corner of the league map, with only two of the seven teams being represented in other leagues, but I think it'd be rife with fun rivalries: Battle of New England, Battle of Quebec, Battle of Niagara Falls, plus Boston-Buffalo has had some moments over the years. stop realignment 1 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Yeah that would be ideal. The big question facing a potential Hamilton team would be the Leafs giving them approval. That and the doubts that southern Ontarians won't support another NHL team en masse. Hamilton in the East and Toronto in the West would solve that because everyone can go "well the Tigers are my second team because they play in the other conference." It would let both teams double dip. Quote PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, the admiral said: Buffalo would have to stay in the East despite being, as we learned this summer, bizarro Chicago Not that long ago, we were thought of as bizarro Gary, IN. Movin' on up! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Speaking of border cities and bad business, why can't Windsor get Red Wings games now that St. Catharines can get Sabres games? Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedleyLamarr Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 3 hours ago, McCarthy said: It wasn't about "paid dues". The Thrashers moving West meant an open spot in the East. Someone had to go East and Columbus was geographically the easternmost city in the west and made the most sense to move East. It's not our fault that Detroit threw a fit and said "We're the goddamn Red Wings. You have to bend overbackward for us." They're the one who upset the balance. Not Columbus. Did the NHL not make a promise to move Detroit back to the Eastern Conference as soon as the next chance came up? Can't fault the Red Wings for requesting the NHL to follow through on said deal. It's not about suffering or winning four Cups or being The Model Franchise of the NHL for the last 25 years. If there's a "Get over it" attitude towards a team, it should be directed towards the newer franchise that's been spinning their tires for 15 seasons. "You should be thankful you have a team, Columbus. You have no history with anyone, and no one considers you to be a rival....whereas Detroit deep history with a lot of teams in the East. Be a little more successful and you might earn some clout, especially when that clout gets matched up with one of the blue-bloods of the NHL. You're 16 years old now...get your crap together, do something, and until then...get over it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittSmith_95 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 None of you see the easy move? Put Nashville in the East, move Columbus and the 2 new teams to the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 1 hour ago, HedleyLamarr said: Did the NHL not make a promise to move Detroit back to the Eastern Conference as soon as the next chance came up? Can't fault the Red Wings for requesting the NHL to follow through on said deal. Did Detroit actually do anything for their end of the deal? Other than be in the conference that makes the most geographic sense? I just don't see the sense in a team that chooses to start most of its home games at 7:30 complaining about road games that start at 8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, KittSmith_95 said: None of you see the easy move? Put Nashville in the East, move Columbus and the 2 new teams to the West. I was surprised when Winnipeg didn't go to the Central with Nashville sliding into Atlanta's NASCAR Division spot, especially considering all the overtures the Perds made to the alienated Atlanta faithful. I think the Jets ended up saying they liked being in the East those two years because it was, believe it or not, easier travel! 1 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittSmith_95 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, the admiral said: I was surprised when Winnipeg didn't go to the Central with Nashville sliding into Atlanta's NASCAR Division spot, especially considering all the overtures the Perds made to the alienated Atlanta faithful. I think the Jets ended up saying they liked being in the East those two years because it was, believe it or not, easier travel! But you have to admit that transfer makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalshepherd141 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Nashville=CST Columbus=EST That's why those teams are in their respective conferences. Putting Nashville in the East would make them the only team in the conference who's home city is running on anything other than Eastern Time. Vice versa for Columbus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedleyLamarr Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Cosmic said: Did Detroit actually do anything for their end of the deal? Other than be in the conference that makes the most geographic sense? I just don't see the sense in a team that chooses to start most of its home games at 7:30 complaining about road games that start at 8. They voted "Yes" to that realignment plan that had them go to the Western Conference, on the condition that they get put back in the East when the next full-on realignment plan gets in motion. Don't be dumb...it's not the 8pm starts. It's about playing more 10pm games and playing fewer games against the teams they care about playing the most. 2 hours ago, the admiral said: I was surprised when Winnipeg didn't go to the Central with Nashville sliding into Atlanta's NASCAR Division spot, especially considering all the overtures the Perds made to the alienated Atlanta faithful. I think the Jets ended up saying they liked being in the East those two years because it was, believe it or not, easier travel! It's funny. The Thrashers and Predators were 4 hours away from each other, the closest teams to each other....yet hardly played each other. It took the Thrashers to move to Winnipeg...a 19-hour, 1340 mile drive now....for the two to get into the same division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said: Don't be dumb...it's not the 8pm starts. It's about playing more 10pm games and playing fewer games against the teams they care about playing the most. I'm sure that's true, but they would play seven more games against the Pacific division than they do now in the East. Seven. And that could be fewer 10 PM starts; I'm not sure how Arizona's time stubbornness works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramerica Industries Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Cosmic said: I'm sure that's true, but they would play seven more games against the Pacific division than they do now in the East. Seven. And that could be fewer 10 PM starts; I'm not sure how Arizona's time stubbornness works. DST usually ends in early November and begins again in mid-March; that leaves two very narrow windows on either end of the season where Arizona home games are 10:00 starts, standard. Probably a net of 1.5 months of the season, so upwards to 10 Coyotes games a season, probably fewer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.