MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[TBGKon]

1 minute ago, who do you think said:

 

A: As a wise man once said, "one problem: nobody cares" (about the Rays, that is)

If nobody cares, then why do you care?  You started this whole thing...

[who do you think]

1 minute ago, McCall said:

Thanks for confirming our hypothesis that you are nothing more than a troll.

 

You're not mad at me, you're mad that you live in Missouri. And I forgive you.

 

Just now, TBGKon said:

If nobody cares, then why do you care?  You started this whole thing...

 

What?

[McCall]

4 minutes ago, who do you think said:

 

A: As a wise man once said, "one problem: nobody cares" (about the Rays, that is)

 

B: Oracle Park is playing the world's largest violin.

A. You referring to yourself as a "wise man" to somehow validate your own personal opinion is narcissism at it's highest level.

B. Are you seriously comparing St. Petersburg to San Francisco as if one's stadium location/population demographic is the same? 

[who do you think]

Just now, McCall said:

B. Are you seriously comparing St. Petersburg to San Francisco as if one's stadium location/population demographic is the same? 

 

Oracle Park is stuck on an allegedly hard-to-access peninsula. The immediate population of San Francisco and Pinellas County is about the same. Why is one selling out the park for eternity while I can have an entire section to myself at the other?

[McCall]

1 minute ago, who do you think said:

 

You're not mad at me, you're mad that you live in Missouri. And I forgive you.

 

I'm proud to have lived in Missouri my whole life. And clearly, you probably could stand to live here for awhile since my sense of logic and reason are clearly at a higher level than yours.

[FiddySicks]

21 minutes ago, who do you think said:

 

Oracle Park is stuck on an allegedly hard-to-access peninsula. The immediate population of San Francisco and Pinellas County is about the same. Why is one selling out the park for eternity while I can have an entire section to myself at the other?

Public transportation. One area has some of the best in the world, the other (I think) hardly has any. 

[tp49]

37 minutes ago, who do you think said:

 

Oracle Park is stuck on an allegedly hard-to-access peninsula. The immediate population of San Francisco and Pinellas County is about the same. Why is one selling out the park for eternity while I can have an entire section to myself at the other?

When you find the Tampa/St. Pete equivalent to BART get back to us...

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, who do you think said:

crying like pregnant teenagers

 

 

1 hour ago, who do you think said:

bridge that's apparently made of lava and used dildos,

 

I need a mockup of this.  

[BBTV]

53 minutes ago, McCall said:

you are nothing more than a troll.

 

I think you meant to say "a poster to watch".

[Red Comet]

1 hour ago, who do you think said:

 

You're not mad at me, you're mad that you live in Missouri. And I forgive you.

Not McCall but I am a Missourian. I’m proud to be where I’m from and you can take your condescending compassion and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.

[VampyrRabbit]

3 hours ago, who do you think said:

 

Oracle Park is stuck on an allegedly hard-to-access peninsula. The immediate population of San Francisco and Pinellas County is about the same. Why is one selling out the park for eternity while I can have an entire section to myself at the other?

As stated above, one of the reasons is public transportation, which for SF is in a different league to Pinellas County (and the rest of the Tampa Bay area). Getting to the Trop using public transportation is a million times harder than it is getting to Oracle Park using Public transportation.

As for stadium aesthetics, I know this is somewhat subjective, but I think the overwhelming consensus is that Oracle Park is a far nicer place to visit than Tropicana Field. Oracle park also isn't hated by locals for eating up taxpayers money and displacing hundreds of families and businesses. The building of the Trop caused huge resentment in St Pete and thats another reason for low attendance.

Another factor that contributes to the low attendance for the Rays is that unlike San Francisco, which is one of the richest cities in it's area, St Pete isn't. The average income in St Pete is less than Tampas, and that is another reason for the low attendance.

In the early 90s, after The White Sox stayed Southside, the Giants were one of the teams St Pete tried to lure to the Trop (or the Suncoast Dome as it was called back then). If that had come to pass, they would be drawing just as badly in the Trop as the Rays do now.

 

[McCall]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

 

I think you meant to say "a poster to watch".

I KNEW there was a term for that and I couldn't think of it. I blame it on hitting my head too often.

[The_Admiral]

4 hours ago, TBGKon said:

Going by what you're saying, I think you might live in Pinellas and have a little bias.  Let me show some examples for the masses.  Both of these maps come from here https://www.draysbay.com/2011/6/24/2242433/draysbays-stadium-proposal-part-1.

 

This is an article from 2011, but the information is still valid today in my option.  The first map below is the current Tropicana Field location.  Red circle is 5 mile radius, and the blue circle is a 10 mile radius.  2/3, if not 3/4 of the circle is water.

Look how much of that area is water?  Guess what, pretty sure fish, turtles, and dolphins don't go to baseball games.

 

Below is a map of the same distanced circles, but centered at downtown Tampa.  Yes, about 1/4 of the area is water, the rest is swelling with populated areas.

 

10 miles in this area is 30-35 minutes driving, which moving to a center around Tampa would increase the potential population that could make a decision to go to a home game.

 

I love maps like these. They really explain a lot of the problems both Florida teams have. You really see it with Miami, and especially with the Panthers.  The only thing you have to be careful about is Atlanta and Houston, which lose none of their radii to bodies of water but are still terrible places to get around and bad at hosting sports.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

[who do you think]

12 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Public transportation. One area has some of the best in the world, the other (I think) hardly has any. 

 

So for trips from UC Berkeley to Oracle (uh-oh, another bridge) and Hillsdale Shopping Center in San Mateo to Oracle ((about the same distance in mileage as that Tampa to St. Pete drive that apparently no sane person would make), Google Maps says about a 25-40 minute drive for each trip, while BART's trip planner puts them at an hour. All times set to arrive at 7pm. So unless I'm missing something here, I'm not satisfied with public transportation being the difference between a perpetually sold out stadium and an empty one.

 

11 hours ago, Red Comet said:

Not McCall but I am a Missourian. I’m proud to be where I’m from and you can take your condescending compassion and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.

 

1v1 me

 

11 hours ago, VampyrRabbit said:

Oracle park also isn't hated by locals for eating up taxpayers money and displacing hundreds of families and businesses. The building of the Trop caused huge resentment in St Pete and thats another reason for low attendance.

 

Can I get you a resistance band? You know, to help you stretch a little more?

 

11 hours ago, VampyrRabbit said:

Another factor that contributes to the low attendance for the Rays is that unlike San Francisco, which is one of the richest cities in it's area, St Pete isn't. The average income in St Pete is less than Tampas, and that is another reason for the low attendance.

 

It's a baseball game, not a hockey game or a high-end brothel. Tickets are cheap.

[GDAWG]

 

[WestCoastBias]

1 hour ago, who do you think said:

 

So for trips from UC Berkeley to Oracle (uh-oh, another bridge) and Hillsdale Shopping Center in San Mateo to Oracle ((about the same distance in mileage as that Tampa to St. Pete drive that apparently no sane person would make), Google Maps says about a 25-40 minute drive for each trip, while BART's trip planner puts them at an hour. All times set to arrive at 7pm. So unless I'm missing something here, I'm not satisfied with public transportation being the difference between a perpetually sold out stadium and an empty one.

 

In addition to BART...

 

There's Muni Metro within the City of San Francisco that actually drops you off right in front of the stadium unlike BART.

https://www.sfmta.com/maps/muni-metro-map

 

And there's the commuter rail line CalTrain (which you must of been looking at for San Mateo since BART doesn't go to San Mateo) that runs special service for Giants games from San Francisco down to San Jose. The CalTrain terminal is also closer to Oracle Park than BART as well. 

https://www.caltrain.com/giants

 

Plus, you can take a ferry directly to the ballpark from Vallejo, Oakland, or Alameda. 

https://sanfranciscobayferry.com/giants

[FiddySicks]

2 hours ago, who do you think said:

 

So for trips from UC Berkeley to Oracle (uh-oh, another bridge) and Hillsdale Shopping Center in San Mateo to Oracle ((about the same distance in mileage as that Tampa to St. Pete drive that apparently no sane person would make), Google Maps says about a 25-40 minute drive for each trip, while BART's trip planner puts them at an hour. All times set to arrive at 7pm. So unless I'm missing something here, I'm not satisfied with public transportation being the difference between a perpetually sold out stadium and an empty one.

Then what are you satisfied with? What’s the conclusion you’re hoping to come to with this one? You say the SF peninsula is hard to access, and my question is, since when? The 1930s? I’ve made day trips to Oracle about a hundred times and my starting spot is as far away as Lake Tahoe. It’s never been unusually difficult to get to the city no matter if I drive into the city and park at the stadium (which is madness in of itself, but that’s due to SF’s small footprint and that they charge $100+ to park), or I stop at the Livermore or Castro Valley station and take BART ($8 round trip and 45 minutes to the city, tops. The return trip is much easier and quicker). I’ve been to exactly one Rays game and we stayed in Tampa proper and drove in for the game. I remember a long bridge and I remember it taking more than two hours. I also remember getting lost on the way back to the hotel. Granted, this was almost 20 years ago so my memory is a bit spotty. 
 

I think the biggest difference between the two is that with the Giants if you’re traveling from out of the area, you’re going into one of the most popular and well known downtown regions in the world, so it would stand to reason that everything is directed towards that area. Where for the Rays, everything sort of felt the opposite. It felt like you were fighting against traffic to get to where you were going. Instead of having a similar vibe to the SF Bay Area, it felt more like trying to go to a Coyotes game in Glendale. It was far, out of the way, and made you pretty much constantly wonder why they would ever put a ballpark that far away from the city center. 

[who do you think]

25 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Then what are you satisfied with? What’s the conclusion you’re hoping to come to with this one?

 

That there's no valid excuse for the Rays being poorly supported besides simple lack of interest, that building a new dome in Tampa will therefore accomplish nothing, and the team is therefore unviable here and should get chop-chopped along with the A's.

 

25 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

You say the SF peninsula is hard to access, and my question is, since when? The 1930s? I’ve made day trips to Oracle about a hundred times and my starting spot is as far away as Lake Tahoe. It’s never been unusually difficult to get to the city no matter if I drive into the city and park at the stadium (which is madness in of itself, but that’s due to SF’s small footprint and that they charge $100+ to park), or I stop at the Livermore or Castro Valley station and take BART ($8 round trip and 45 minutes to the city, tops. The return trip is much easier and quicker).

 

I don't know, peninsula whose main connections to surrounding areas are bridges over water? That same setup is what makes St. Pete about as accessible as Turkmenistan, according to this entire thread.

 

25 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

I’ve been to exactly one Rays game and we stayed in Tampa proper and drove in for the game. I remember a long bridge and I remember it taking more than two hours. I also remember getting lost on the way back to the hotel. Granted, this was almost 20 years ago so my memory is a bit spotty.

 

And If I ever traveled out that way I'd probably end up driving to Santa Rosa or something. You didn't know where you going, the people who live here do.

 

25 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

I think the biggest difference between the two is that with the Giants if you’re traveling from out of the area, you’re going into one of the most popular and well known downtown regions in the world, so it would stand to reason that everything is directed towards that area. Where for the Rays, everything sort of felt the opposite. It felt like you were fighting against traffic to get to where you were going. Instead of having a similar vibe to the SF Bay Area, it felt more like trying to go to a Coyotes game in Glendale. It was far, out of the way, and made you pretty much constantly wonder why they would ever put a ballpark that far away from the city center. 

 

I mean this is anecdotal and I can't disprove it, but I don't see it. It's a continuous highway from Tampa, across the water, into Pinellas, and down through St. Pete. 375 and 175 (both going downtown) are left exits and that'll throw people who aren't ready for them, but again, people who actually live in the area and know the lay of the land don't have that excuse. (Not that that stops a bunch of dumbasses from camping the left lane all the way down and then panicking and cutting everybody off at the last minute every single day but now we're back to the whole "breaking news, cities have traffic" thing and I'm rambling anyway.)

 

"That far away from the city center", downtown St. Pete isn't a giant strip mall. I swear people think Tropicana Field is out on the beaches or something, which actually are a :censored: to get to.

[McCall]

2 hours ago, who do you think said:

 

That there's no valid excuse for the Rays being poorly supported besides simple lack of interest, that building a new dome in Tampa will therefore accomplish nothing, and the team is therefore unviable here and should get chop-chopped along with the A's.

 

 

I don't know, peninsula whose main connections to surrounding areas are bridges over water? That same setup is what makes St. Pete about as accessible as Turkmenistan, according to this entire thread.

 

 

And If I ever traveled out that way I'd probably end up driving to Santa Rosa or something. You didn't know where you going, the people who live here do.

 

 

I mean this is anecdotal and I can't disprove it, but I don't see it. It's a continuous highway from Tampa, across the water, into Pinellas, and down through St. Pete. 375 and 175 (both going downtown) are left exits and that'll throw people who aren't ready for them, but again, people who actually live in the area and know the lay of the land don't have that excuse. (Not that that stops a bunch of dumbasses from camping the left lane all the way down and then panicking and cutting everybody off at the last minute every single day but now we're back to the whole "breaking news, cities have traffic" thing and I'm rambling anyway.)

 

"That far away from the city center", downtown St. Pete isn't a giant strip mall. I swear people think Tropicana Field is out on the beaches or something, which actually are a to get to.

Just even the fact that you think every bridge-traffic scenario is the exact same, without taking any other factors on stadiums/cities/markets, further proves that you have no sense of rational thought. You might just wanna sit this one out. You are WAY in over your head... much like a bridge.