MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[Red Comet]

8 hours ago, who do you think said:

1v1 me

FTFY

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I've spent some time in Tampa/St. Pete and all I remember is you have to drive for everything. Quick grocery store run? Nope -- 25 minutes, at least. Run to the pharmacy? 25 minutes. Go to dinner? Half an hour. See baseball? An hour.

 

Sitting in your car for long stretches of time is part of the culture in that part of the world. I don't understand why it's okay to take 45 minutes to get to a titty bar but not a baseball game.

 

Unrelated question: would a baseball stadium next to Raymond James fare better?

[Digby]

The cultural differences start with the car thing but extend from there. 
 

People live in the Bay to do yuppie city-life things, take a quick trolley or Uber to social outings, spend tons of money on overpriced beer and support the local teams even if they’re from far away. 
 

People live in Tampa Bay to have a backyard pool, leave as little as possible unless it’s the beach or a boat, and only care about the teams from their old hometown up north despite otherwise adopting the local culture (bad tans and prurient interests, primarily).

[gosioux76]

What's interesting about this debate is that once you remove the posturing, you guys have actually hit at the heart of the debate and the exact issue that makes the Rays situation so difficult to solve. 

 

It comes down to a question of whether the problem is the market or the location.

 

You may not like the way he's going about it, but @who do you think's broader points aren't exactly invalid. The way many of you have characterized Tampa Bay — as a haven for retirees more interested in their pools and the Yankees — might be more of a reason why the Rays are struggling than having a terrible stadium in an even worse location.  And if so, investing in a new stadium elsewhere in the market would seem speculative at best. 

 

Yet I can also see why it might also be worth the gamble. It's a big metro area and there's just as valid of an argument in believing that the market hasn't truly been tested yet. And the only way to test it is to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a nicer stadium in a better location. 

 

It's quite a risk. This is a much more difficult question to answer if you're a taxpayer in the Tampa region than if you're a sports fan somewhere else with no skin in the game. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

The other thing to consider is whether it's worth committing to Florida for the long term.

 

MOD EDIT: Let's not go there.

[McCall]

5 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

What's interesting about this debate is that once you remove the posturing, you guys have actually hit at the heart of the debate and the exact issue that makes the Rays situation so difficult to solve. 

 

It comes down to a question of whether the problem is the market or the location.

 

You may not like the way he's going about it, but @who do you think's broader points aren't exactly invalid. The way many of you have characterized Tampa Bay — as a haven for retirees more interested in their pools and the Yankees — might be more of a reason why the Rays are struggling than having a terrible stadium in an even worse location.  And if so, investing in a new stadium elsewhere in the market would seem speculative at best. 

 

Yet I can also see why it might also be worth the gamble. It's a big metro area and there's just as valid of an argument in believing that the market hasn't truly been tested yet. And the only way to test it is to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a nicer stadium in a better location. 

 

It's quite a risk. This is a much more difficult question to answer if you're a taxpayer in the Tampa region than if you're a sports fan somewhere else with no skin in the game. 

 

5 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

The other thing to consider is whether it's worth committing to Florida for the long term.

Actually it started with his opinion that the Rays should be contracted due to the stadium and my rebuttal that they're a good on-field team, so relocation would make more sense, wherever it may be. The "way he was going about it" went so far into the realm of ridiculousness that the general discussion between relocation outside or inside of Tampa Bay/contraction got muddied to hell.

[TBGKon]

2 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

 

Unrelated question: would a baseball stadium next to Raymond James fare better?

Hard to say, since the Yankees spring complex in that area.  It might take a little more negotiating to get in that area.

[VampyrRabbit]

 

 

12 hours ago, who do you think said:

Can I get you a resistance band? You know, to help you stretch a little more?

I can see exactly why people might not want to go to a Ballpark that displaced an entire community and was built entirely on speculation with public money. Especially when the Trop is a monstrosity that never should have been built.

 

12 hours ago, who do you think said:

It's a baseball game, not a hockey game or a high-end brothel. Tickets are cheap.

It's not just about tickets, there are also concessions and actually getting to the ballpark. and there are 81 home games.

 

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

 

Yet I can also see why it might also be worth the gamble. It's a big metro area and there's just as valid of an argument in believing that the market hasn't truly been tested yet. And the only way to test it is to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a nicer stadium in a better location. 

 

 

It's quite a risk. This is a much more difficult question to answer if you're a taxpayer in the Tampa region than if you're a sports fan somewhere else with no skin in the game. 

 

That shouldn't be a question for the taxpayer - Ideally, not a single dime of public money would (and should) be used to pay for a new Stadium in Ybor City.  The owners of the Rays can pay for it themselves or with private money.
 

 

[tp49]

No one seems to remember either that Candlestick was difficult to access outside of the 101 and an express bus from downtown.  They had attendance issues as well.  Giants attendance didn't surge until Pac Bell was built in a more accessible location.

[SCMODS]

Would Orlando even be an option?

[McCall]

4 minutes ago, SCMODS said:

Would Orlando even be an option?

I mean, possibly. If they have the interest to try and lure the Rays there.

 

 

... Wait... I just thought of something...

 

 

Isn't this the A's relocation thread?

[tp49]

Howard Terminal will probably have accessibility issues too as the closest BART stations are over a mile away, Outside of a couple of bus routes and a cross-bay ferry, getting in and out of there will be a logistical nightmare.

[VampyrRabbit]

34 minutes ago, SCMODS said:

Would Orlando even be an option?

I don't think that moving the A's to The City Beautiful is an option at present.

[TBGKon]

31 minutes ago, McCall said:

 

... Wait... I just thought of something...

 

 

Isn't this the A's relocation thread?

As a mod, I've decided to rename the thread to encompass the Stadium Saga in Oakland and Tampa Bay.

[SCMODS]

5 minutes ago, VampyrRabbit said:

I don't think that moving the A's to The City Beautiful is an option at present.

 

Sorry wrong thread. Meant the Rays.

[WestCoastBias]

12 minutes ago, tp49 said:

Howard Terminal will probably have accessibility issues too as the closest BART stations are over a mile away, Outside of a couple of bus routes and a cross-bay ferry, getting in and out of there will be a logistical nightmare.

 

BART Stations to Howard Terminal

West Oakland - 1 mile (looks rough right around the station but not bad closer to Howard Terminal, industrial though)

12th Street - 1 mile (best option, nice walk right down Broadway)

Lake Merritt - 1.4 miles (probably 2nd best option even though its the farthest)

 

BART Stations to Oracle Park

Montgomery - 1 mile

Powell - 1.2 miles

Embarcadero - 1.2 miles

 

BUT in San Francisco you can transfer to Muni Metro which gets drops you off right at Oracle Park. Chase Center is the same way but further away from BART.

 

Also

California Memorial Stadium

Downtown Berkley - 0.9 miles

 

Howard Terminal is definitely walkable from BART, not for everybody but a 1 mile walk isn't bad at all. People do it for Cal games and Giants games. If this ballpark gets built, the whole area will also likely look completely different in 10 years and much more pleasant to walk, Oracle Park and Petco Park are great examples of this. Who knows, maybe a street car gets built eventually in Downtown Oakland (more taxpayer money though) that gets transit riders even closer to the Howard Terminal like Muni does for the Giants and Warriors. 

[BBTV]

I just love that this thread has taken so many turns that we're now talking about bridges made out of lava and dildos, and people prioritizing driving to titty bars rather than stadiums, and the person who started the whole thing hasn't even visited the site in 11 years. 

 

Obama was in his first term when this thread was started.

 

[McCall]

45 minutes ago, BBTV said:

I just love that this thread has taken so many turns that we're now talking about bridges made out of lava and dildos, and people prioritizing driving to titty bars rather than stadiums, and the person who started the whole thing hasn't even visited the site in 11 years. 

 

Yeah, but they were The Fan.

[gosioux76]

13 hours ago, BBTV said:

I just love that this thread has taken so many turns that we're now talking about bridges made out of lava and dildos, and people prioritizing driving to titty bars rather than stadiums, and the person who started the whole thing hasn't even visited the site in 11 years. 

 

Obama was in his first term when this thread was started.

 

 

In fairness, it's really about time we begin debating the scourge that is lava-dildo bridges. Let's end this national nightmare. 

[McCall]

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

 

In fairness, it's really about time we begin debating the scourge that is lava-dildo bridges. Let's end this national nightmare. 

Sounds like a pain in the a**.