MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[BBTV]

9 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

That would be fun. But if it's successful, we'd start hearing Philly fans make claims that they should be a two-team market.

 

 

While there'll never be another multi-team market in any of the 4 major sports, it could be.  Or could have been, had someone moved while the Phillies were down, especially if they moved to one of a few specific areas.  Even nowadays, if the Phillies can start another multi-year sellout streak, with SRO playoff tickets in the $1k range, it wouldn't be outlandish in theory (though getting buy-in for a $1B stadium would be a non-starter, either in the city locations or non-city ones I'm thinking of). 

 

A population base of 6M could support two teams.  That 6M is much more dense than the 6M in almost any of the other large markets outside of the top few, so a very different 6M than Dallas' 6M, Phoenix' 5M, etc., where a good number of that is like a million miles outside of the city centers and doesn't have much (if any) mass transit.

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

 

While there'll never be another multi-team market in any of the 4 major sports, it could be.  Or could have been, had someone moved while the Phillies were down, especially if they moved to one of a few specific areas.  Even nowadays, if the Phillies can start another multi-year sellout streak, with SRO playoff tickets in the $1k range, it wouldn't be outlandish in theory (though getting buy-in for a $1B stadium would be a non-starter, either in the city locations or non-city ones I'm thinking of). 

 

A population base of 6M could support two teams.  That 6M is much more dense than the 6M in almost any of the other large markets outside of the top few, so a very different 6M than Dallas' 6M, Phoenix' 5M, etc., where a good number of that is like a million miles outside of the city centers and doesn't have much (if any) mass transit.

 

The mayor of Dallas Eric Johnson made an outlandish remark about the City of Dallas wanting their own NFL team because the Cowboys play in Arlington about a year ago. He was laughed off, even by the local media who cover sports. However, it is unlikely that Johnson loses all of the City of Dallas major sports teams as the Stars and Mavericks are staying in the City of Dallas.  There was talk last year that if the state of Texas legalizes casino and sports gambling (which seems to be a significant longshot at this point) that a potential casino in the city of Dallas would include a sports arena to replace the American Airlines Center and this was something that Mark Cuban (the owner of the Mavericks) was in favor of.  The Stars didn't comment on it because it's a longshot at best.

[BBTV]

with as spread out and sparce as most of the TX / southwest metro areas are, IDK if Dallas has two "centers" of population that are spread enough for two teams, or if it's more like one giant (area wise) metro area, in which case I don't think it'd make sense.

 

Two solid population bases that are dense enough yet separate enough could be conditions for two teams, a single large-but-dense base also could work, and maybe a couple of other relatively-odd cases.

 

But it's moot, because existing teams wouldn't allow it.

 

What's the last place that actually tried?  Toronto with the Legends (I think?) and how did the Leafs react to that?

[McCall]

30 minutes ago, BBTV said:

with as spread out and sparce as most of the TX / southwest metro areas are, IDK if Dallas has two "centers" of population that are spread enough for two teams, or if it's more like one giant (area wise) metro area, in which case I don't think it'd make sense.

 

Two solid population bases that are dense enough yet separate enough could be conditions for two teams, a single large-but-dense base also could work, and maybe a couple of other relatively-odd cases.

 

But it's moot, because existing teams wouldn't allow it.

 

What's the last place that actually tried?  Toronto with the Legends (I think?) and how did the Leafs react to that?

Technically, Los Angeles. Rams returned in 2016 with the Chargers arriving in 2017.

[tBBP]

42 minutes ago, McCall said:

Technically, Los Angeles. Rams returned in 2016 with the Chargers arriving in 2017.

 

And then, depending on how one feels about this, LAFC being stood up out there alongside the LA Galaxy.

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, McCall said:

Technically, Los Angeles. Rams returned in 2016 with the Chargers arriving in 2017.

right… and I’m saying there won’t be any more. LA was unique in that it had no teams, is a mega market and road trip destination, and FOX and CBS each wanted a team, back when the contracts were by conf. 

[monkeypower]

Sure there might be a high enough population in a given city/market, but will there be enough people to switch their existing allegiance for a second team? Be it the Philadelphia Constitutions baseball club or the Dallas Forth Worthers football team, is there enough space to wiggle in a build a fanbase?

[GDAWG]

4 hours ago, monkeypower said:

Sure there might be a high enough population in a given city/market, but will there be enough people to switch their existing allegiance for a second team? Be it the Philadelphia Constitutions baseball club or the Dallas Forth Worthers football team, is there enough space to wiggle in a build a fanbase?

 

The Cowboys are so established that a second NFL team in the area would be a disaster.  

[Dilbert]

22 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

 

The Cowboys are so established that a second NFL team in the area would be a disaster.  

I mean the Texans bolted after three seasons for Kansas City, and both teams began at the same time. Cowboys just had the advantage of being in the NFL compared to the upstart AFL

[Ridleylash]

13 hours ago, McCall said:

Technically, Los Angeles. Rams returned in 2016 with the Chargers arriving in 2017.

I mean, I don't really know if putting two teams in a city that has struggled to support even a single franchise at various points in history was necessarily the correct choice in itself, but Dean Spanos isn't exactly known for his bright ideas when it comes to running the Chargers.

 

The Rams will at least have staying power thanks to their championship, as we all know LA loves winners, but the Chargers seem pretty much predestined to go the way of the Angels in being the bum also-ran franchise; and even then, the Angels didn't spend the vast majority of their existence in a completely different city.

[BBTV]

13 hours ago, monkeypower said:

t will there be enough people to switch their existing allegiance for a second team? Be it the Philadelphia Constitutions baseball club

 

1. doubtful, however if they go on another 5-6 year sellout streak where ticket prices are prohibitively expensive, the other team could become the one where families can actually afford to take their kids, who might grow up to be fans.  OR, when the Phillies blow, the other team could be the only place to see AL stars like (based on 2022) Otani.  Back in the day, people would have packed an AL stadium to see some of the players that rarely appear in NL parks.

 

2. Re: Constitutions - can we stop naming teams as if they're come up by a board room full of 70-year-old white guys?  I'm not saying to name them the Dirty Dawgzzz, but something more younglings can relate to that's not embarrassing for their parents to wear.

[monkeypower]

13 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

The Cowboys are so established that a second NFL team in the area would be a disaster.  

 

4 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

1. doubtful, however if they go on another 5-6 year sellout streak where ticket prices are prohibitively expensive, the other team could become the one where families can actually afford to take their kids, who might grow up to be fans.  OR, when the Phillies blow, the other team could be the only place to see AL stars like (based on 2022) Otani.  Back in the day, people would have packed an AL stadium to see some of the players that rarely appear in NL parks.

 

I just picked Dallas NFL and Philadelphia MLB because those were the two most recently listed in this thread. I don't seriously think it would work there, it was just examples

 

4 hours ago, BBTV said:

2. Re: Constitutions - can we stop naming teams as if they're come up by a board room full of 70-year-old white guys?  I'm not saying to name them the Dirty Dawgzzz, but something more younglings can relate to that's not embarrassing for their parents to wear.

 

I don't seriously think Constitutions would be a good name. I thought that might have come across since I named the Dallas team the Fort Worthers, but I guess not. 

[BBTV]

Are the D-Backs still trying to get a new stadium?

 

If this is the type of promotion they have to run to get fans - after a pennant - maybe they don't belong there.

 

 

That's less than $4 per game.  Contract them.

 

[NorthStar74]

I'm curious, since the A's used to be in Philadelphia years ago, how did the A's fare vs the Phillies in terms of attendance and competitive play? have often wondered why the A's left Philadelphia for Kansas City then Oakland and now Las Vegas (I wish LV would not even have the A's as it would not work out well enough what with too many other sports teams there in the city so... )

[Ridleylash]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

Are the D-Backs still trying to get a new stadium?

 

If this is the type of promotion they have to run to get fans - after a pennant - maybe they don't belong there.

 

 

That's less than $4 per game.  Contract them.

 

The MLB is not going to contract a team that just went to the World Series, what? And if their attendance was so terrible that they should be contracted, then we should also be calling for the Orioles, Guardians, Nationals, White Sox, Tigers, Pirates, Rays, Royals, Marlins and A's to all be contracted as well, since the D-Backs drew more then all of them last year.

 

Besides, haven't people been bitching about how expensive it is to go to sports games for years now, especially recently since we're in an economy that's still recovering from a pandemic?

[monkeypower]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

Are the D-Backs still trying to get a new stadium?

 

If this is the type of promotion they have to run to get fans - after a pennant - maybe they don't belong there.

 

 

That's less than $4 per game.  Contract them.

 

I don't know, I think that's a pretty cool deal.

 

Looking at the site, it's only Upper Level seats and people have to claim their tickets at the beginning of each home series, so it's not like they're handing out primo seats.

[tBBP]

4 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

I don't know, I think that's a pretty cool deal.

 

Looking at the site, it's only Upper Level seats and people have to claim their tickets at the beginning of each home series, so it's not like they're handing out primo seats.

 

Not for nothing, and I have no clue what the Diamondbacks' park looks like, but sometimes those upper level seats are the best in the house.

 

Or at least that's been my experience, Fenway notwithstanding. 

[Ridleylash]

Just now, tBBP said:

 

Not for nothing, and I have no clue what the Diamondbacks' park looks like, but sometimes those upper level seats are the best in the house—or at least that's been my experience, Fenway notwithstanding. 

Here's a shot from the upper deck of Chase Field (and not even seats behind home plate);

[Cujo]

41 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Here's a shot from the upper deck of Chase Field (and not even seats behind home plate);

 

Ah. Section 536, Row 78. That's a real freaking hike! @FiddySicks

[GDAWG]

4 hours ago, BBTV said:

Are the D-Backs still trying to get a new stadium?

 

If this is the type of promotion they have to run to get fans - after a pennant - maybe they don't belong there.

 

 

That's less than $4 per game.  Contract them.

 

 

If they are, they will probably be looking at the Suburbs for a new stadium.