Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[bosrs1]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:46 AM, Walk-Off said:

Yesterday, an anchor of the morning newscast on the Bay Area's Fox station interviewed Dave Kaval:

 

https://www.ktvu.com/video/938385

 

Kaval talked up the Las Vegas option so much in that interview that I have come away with the impression that Kaval, A's principal owner John Fisher, et al. are now to MLB, Oakland, and Las Vegas what Anthony Precourt was to Major League Soccer, Columbus, and Austin, respectively -- people who are eager to try to move a big-league pro sports team from a fairly large city that seems to be too boring for their tastes to an area that has noticeably fewer residents but also a considerably more exciting image (be it the hip, socioculturally cool, "weird" reputation of Austin or the hedonistic glitz of Las Vegas).

 

 

Honestly that's the feeling I'm getting as well. Last week I thought Vegas was in play but was the backup. Now it's pretty clear it's their preferred choice and will be their only choice if Oakland's city council doesn't give them everything they want on July 20. 

[bosrs1]

On 5/22/2021 at 8:21 PM, GDAWG said:

Nice to see Las Vegas is continuing it's delusions of grandeur when it comes to pro sports.

 

Going to be even more fun to watch it blow up in their faces in a few years when Vegas bombs out as a city. 

[bosrs1]

On 4/1/2020 at 7:42 PM, Cujo said:

Oakland fans after the Warriors, Raiders and A's all dip out

 

 

Nah they'll be fine. They all still root for the Warriors. And most of them were Giants fans already, which has been part of the problem. 

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

You don't need to abandon tailgating forever to improve access to a stadium.

 

Maybe you have shuttle buses and convert a lane to bus-only on game days. Maybe you provide discounts or free passes to HOV drivers. Maybe you build monorail or something.

 

I don't know. It's not just "well, what can you do?" It's bad for our planet to simply assume it's one person one car for forever. There are better ways.

[SFGiants58]

Beyond cars, downtown St. Pete/the remains of the gas plant district don’t seem too developed in the same way as the areas around Willie Mays Park or Nationals Park. 

[The_Admiral]

57 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Maybe you have shuttle buses and convert a lane to bus-only on game days. Maybe you provide discounts or free passes to HOV drivers. Maybe you build monorail or something.

 

Yeah, I think you'd have to work within existing infrastructure and kinda kludge it with more buses or something. There's no appetite for a big project like a monorail. Couldn't even get high-speed rail to link Milwaukee and Madison, which would have made life easier for so many people. 

[dont care]

2 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Going to be even more fun to watch it blow up in their faces in a few years when Vegas bombs out as a city. 

They’ve been saying that do 2 decades now. Sure there are lulls and casinos go out of business, to them be demolished and build an even bigger resort but vegas has adjusted with the times and will continue to be successful until the businesses in Vegas stop adjusting and it’s no longer adult Disney in America.

[SFGiants58]

2 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Nah they'll be fine. They all still root for the Warriors. And most of them were Giants fans already, which has been part of the problem. 

So yeah, sorry about not giving you guys the San José rights back. My big question is, how’d the A’s even get them in the first place?

[Digby]

14 hours ago, Red Comet said:

I was about to say, anyone thinking you could plop a place like Lambeau, Gillette or Arrowhead in the middle of a downtown has a couple of screws loose. Baseball or hockey/basketball? Sure, as long as the city in question has the infrastructure to handle transportation of people to and from the game and there’s a decent nightlife to be had after the game.

Some cities have managed downtown and/or transit accessible NFL stadia — Baltimore, Philly, Seattle come to mind that I know of. Gillette would have wound up in Boston if the Brady era began a few years earlier and the team knew how things worked in the state house. Now, whether that’s a good idea is another question; last time I was in Minneapolis pre-pandemic the new Vikings stadium was shocking, and not in a good way.

[SFGiants58]

Heck, Mile High is on my light rail route into downtown Denver. It’s pretty easy to access from downtown and other areas via light rail routes, as is Ball Arena. The Dick in Commerce City (8 miles north of downtown Denver), however...

[BBTV]

12 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, sorry about not giving you guys the San José rights back. My big question is, how’d the A’s even get them in the first place?

 

https://www.athleticsnation.com/2012/4/18/2958535/territorial-rights-a-not-so-brief-history

 

I'll concede that I only skimmed that because it's very long, but based on my minimal reading, it seems like there wasn't any territorial rights until the Giants were looking into moving to San Jose, so in order to "help out", the A's owner essentially created them and handed over the west and south bay to the Giants so they could sell San Jose as still their home market.  The thing is, they did this legally with paperwork and everything, and the Giants now had a valuable asset that never previously existed, and they never gave it back even after not moving to SJ.

[bosrs1]

21 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, sorry about not giving you guys the San José rights back. My big question is, how’d the A’s even get them in the first place?

 

The teams used to share them, which made sense. The A’s did the Giants a solid in he 90’s. Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone, it’ll just blow up in your face. 

[SFGiants58]

1 minute ago, bosrs1 said:

 

The teams used to share them, which made sense. The A’s did the Giants a solid in he 90’s. Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone, it’ll just blow up in your face. 

...if only because the A’s wanted to be the closest team to downtown SF. Nothing is ever as pure as it’s made out to be.

[bosrs1]

24 minutes ago, dont care said:

They’ve been saying that do 2 decades now. Sure there are lulls and casinos go out of business, to them be demolished and build an even bigger resort but vegas has adjusted with the times and will continue to be successful until the businesses in Vegas stop adjusting and it’s no longer adult Disney in America.

Eventually Vegas is going to bomb out. There just isn’t enough water to support Vegas and there never has been. They’ve been living on borrowed time for decades. A same for Phoenix. And being in the middle of the desert, there’s no other source of water for either other than the Gila in AZ for Phoenix. Vegas lacks even that.  

[bosrs1]

1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said:

...if only because the A’s wanted to be the closest team to downtown SF. Nothing is ever as pure as it’s made out to be.

 

Never heard that particular take. Not that I imagine it holds much water. Oakland teams have never had much appeal in SF or the peninsula. 

[Digby]

Knowing what we know now about environmental effects and urban policy— the multipurpose stadiums had a point. Keep the Trop!

[TrueYankee26]

3 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Nah they'll be fine. They all still root for the Warriors. And most of them were Giants fans already, which has been part of the problem. 

Was this before or after San Franciscans gentrified Oakland? Seems Alameda is not so much an oasis of A's fans in a desert of Giants fans after all.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

12 minutes ago, Digby said:

Knowing what we know now about environmental effects and urban policy— the multipurpose stadiums had a point. Keep the Trop!

 

You're not wrong.

 

The Sounders and Seahawks share a giant  stadium downtown and it's awesome for everyone.

[bosrs1]

1 hour ago, TrueYankee26 said:

Was this before or after San Franciscans gentrified Oakland? Seems Alameda is not so much an oasis of A's fans in a desert of Giants fans after all.

 

 

Before. Though SF emptying out into the east bay hasn’t been helping matters. The Giants made major inroads in the Bonds/roids era, sealed the deal with the World Series runs, and stuck the knife in the A’s locally when they killed San Jose. I mean more power to them as it was well played and the A’s owners have been clueless off field for 30 years now. 

[dont care]

15 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Eventually Vegas is going to bomb out. There just isn’t enough water to support Vegas and there never has been. They’ve been living on borrowed time for decades. A same for Phoenix. And being in the middle of the desert, there’s no other source of water for either other than the Gila in AZ for Phoenix. Vegas lacks even that.  

Vegas (and the rest of the states that tap from lake Meade) have made vast improvements in water conservation and recycling. If they do run out it won’t be due to water usage but instead massive drought but by then the whole world would be ending because nothing would be getting water in the entire country.