NFL 2023 Changes

[SportsFan12]

45 minutes ago, gothedistance said:

 

Unless they meet again because of the same place finisher that's now a thing. Courtesy of the 17 game implementation.

Mathematically, any matchup is quite unlikely to happen again. For instance, in 2021 these divisions were matched up for the 17th game and it was Eagles at Jets. This year the AFC has the extra home game, which means it would again in 2025, unless the league decides to flip the rotation so that it's not the same every cycle. This is the only way the Dolphins or Bills could play at Philly again before 2031. And even then, one of them would have to finish in the same place in the standings.

 

At least Bills Eagles looked right in 2015:

[HOOVER]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

 

So the most advanced sports apparel company in the world had to call in scientists to replicate a pantone color.

 

I want to know how the fabric gets dyed for all other colors, because it sure seems like green is Nike's kryptonite (fully intended).

 

EDIT:

And the helmet - which Nike has nothing to do with - doesn't even look close.  I'm being overly harsh here, and overall I'm fine with what they did, but I don't buy that they put that much effort into replicating the green when 1) they didn't, and 2) even if they did, the fabrics are so different that it wouldn't matter.

“The team took the responsibility of finding the right shade of Kelly Green, the one that truly represents the 1990s era of Eagles football. The team looked at the many versions of green jerseys out there – the Boston Celtics in the NBA, the Dallas Stars in the NHL, Oregon and the University of Marshall in college sports, for a handful of examples – and studied how Kelly Green would look on fabric, on helmets, on gloves, for a 1 PM game, for a game under the lights, how it would appear on television.”

 

Nike has and has always had a Kelly Green; see my prior post regarding Marshall.  However, that obviously wasn’t the right match for whatever Kelly Green that Wilson, Champion, Ripon, or whoever used in the 80’s and 90’s, so they color-matched it.   Nike deserves their arrows at times, but this doesn’t sound like one of them.

 

Like with Arizona’s new unis, I’m going to wait until these hit the field to make further judgement, which is what we should probably do with all uniform reveals.

 

And if the helmet is bad, I’ll look forward to everyone ripping Riddell wide open.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, HOOVER said:

And if the helmet is bad, I’ll look forward to everyone ripping Riddell wide open.

 

Why would it be Riddell?  Wouldn't the team be painting them regardless of brand?  Or having the manufacturers, whether Riddell, Vicis, Schutt, (or whoever makes them these days) paint them before supplying them?

 

Regarding the green - if I'm understanding, they knew the pantone wouldn't match the original due to the materials, so they tried a million shades until they were happy?  If so, I appreciate the effort, but this may be a case where it was overthought.  Or not.  Guess we'll see.

[HOOVER]

27 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Why would it be Riddell?  Wouldn't the team be painting them regardless of brand?  Or having the manufacturers, whether Riddell, Vicis, Schutt, (or whoever makes them these days) paint them before supplying them?

 

Regarding the green - if I'm understanding, they knew the pantone wouldn't match the original due to the materials, so they tried a million shades until they were happy?  If so, I appreciate the effort, but this may be a case where it was overthought.  Or not.  Guess we'll see.

Teams do not paint their own helmets. 

 

Riddell no longer has reconditioning exclusivity with the NFL, I don't think - I assume teams can send their helmets to whatever certified reconditioner they like, but this is not something equipment managers are doing in the equipment room.  

 

While suppliers may supply painted helmets, do you think that if a team is getting helmets from Riddell, Schutt, Vicis and Xenith that every one of those painted shells is going to match?  No.  They're all done together, at a reconditioner, whether it's Riddell or someone else, so that they all look exactly the same.  The only manufacturer I recall in recent history sharing anything about them reconditioning NFL helmets is Riddell, so I assume that's who most teams still use.

I'm not sure what the confusion is about the Kelly Green; Nike's longstanding Kelly is not the same as whatever other manufacturers' Kelly Green(s) Philadelphia used 30-40 years ago.  So they worked together to match what Philly used decades ago to achieve accuracy.  Once they do that, they manufacture it.  This can be tedious, but it is not complicated.

 

EXAMPLE:  

 

 

 

1985 appears darker than 1995.  Both were called Kelly Green. 

[HOOVER]

As a follow-up to my last post:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like Riddell still does most of the NFL, if you peruse the rest of their Twitter feed.

 

[ltjets21]

5 hours ago, nuordr said:

They didn't wear these ^^^ throwbacks in that game, but what they wore was better than the current throwback. They stopped wearing the gray facemask after the 1979 season. 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I know all throwbacks with block numbers and stripes look good but at a certain point it gets repetitive. Thats why I have always preferred the logo on jersey sleeves. I think the best solution is the Cowboys stripe stripe with the star on their navy jerseys.

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, HOOVER said:

Teams do not paint their own helmets. 

 

Riddell no longer has reconditioning exclusivity with the NFL, I don't think - I assume teams can send their helmets to whatever certified reconditioner they like, but this is not something equipment managers are doing in the equipment room.  

 

While suppliers may supply painted helmets, do you think that if a team is getting helmets from Riddell, Schutt, Vicis and Xenith that every one of those painted shells is going to match?  No.  They're all done together, at a reconditioner, whether it's Riddell or someone else, so that they all look exactly the same.  The only manufacturer I recall in recent history sharing anything about them reconditioning NFL helmets is Riddell, so I assume that's who most teams still use.

I'm not sure what the confusion is about the Kelly Green; Nike's longstanding Kelly is not the same as whatever other manufacturers' Kelly Green(s) Philadelphia used 30-40 years ago.  So they worked together to match what Philly used decades ago to achieve accuracy.  Once they do that, they manufacture it.  This can be tedious, but it is not complicated.

 

EXAMPLE:  

 

 

 

1985 appears darker than 1995.  Both were called Kelly Green. 

 

1. You know more about the business than I do, so I appreciate the help here.  If they know the pantone from that era, couldn't Nike simply add it to their pallet since their green is a different shade?  Or is it one of those things where the "official" color may not have been the "actual" color, hence all the trial and error?

 

2.  Regarding the photos: the Eagles used screened numbers every year of that set up until the very last one.  The second image is from 1995, the only twill season (I could tell instantly even without the label on it.)  That season, the green on the green numbers definitely looked different - either due to the material change to twill, or just that they didn't care.  The numbers are also narrower, which makes them look different too.  But prior to '95, I believe the color was relatively consistent (with the understanding that nothing from that era was 100% consistent.)  Their manufacturer for most - if not all - of those years was Russell.   I know that all of the NOB lettering was done in house for most of that era.  I assume they came numbered.

[ramsjetsthunder]

Why does everyone (not on this site) keep calling the Seahawks throwbacks 90's throwbacks?--as if they didn't wear them from '83-'00? Not to mention their basic style since their inception in '76? Is there some weird 90's nostalgia trend going around?

[BBTV]

3 minutes ago, ramsjetsthunder said:

Why does everyone (not on this site) keep calling the Seahawks throwbacks 90's throwbacks?--as if they didn't wear them from '83-'00? Not to mention their basic style since their inception in '76? Is there some weird 90's nostalgia trend going around?

 

Maybe because the pre-90s set was known for giant-mesh fabric and oversized numbers?  And these have the NFL shield, which started around '91.

[Nick72Phins]

11 hours ago, BBTV said:

They’re wearing them against the Dolphins and Bills??? WTF - not the Giants, Cowboys, 49ers, or any NFL rival?  That’s a choice. 

If the Dolphins wear aqua pants or their white throwback, then it'll be a good uni match-up 

[ManillaToad]

1 hour ago, ramsjetsthunder said:

Why does everyone (not on this site) keep calling the Seahawks throwbacks 90's throwbacks?--as if they didn't wear them from '83-'00? Not to mention their basic style since their inception in '76? Is there some weird 90's nostalgia trend going around?

 

Yes

[HOOVER]

12 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

1. You know more about the business than I do, so I appreciate the help here.  If they know the pantone from that era, couldn't Nike simply add it to their pallet since their green is a different shade?  Or is it one of those things where the "official" color may not have been the "actual" color, hence all the trial and error?

 

2.  Regarding the photos: the Eagles used screened numbers every year of that set up until the very last one.  The second image is from 1995, the only twill season (I could tell instantly even without the label on it.)  That season, the green on the green numbers definitely looked different - either due to the material change to twill, or just that they didn't care.  The numbers are also narrower, which makes them look different too.  But prior to '95, I believe the color was relatively consistent (with the understanding that nothing from that era was 100% consistent.)  Their manufacturer for most - if not all - of those years was Russell.   I know that all of the NOB lettering was done in house for most of that era.  I assume they came numbered.

That’s essentially what Nike did; they worked with Philly to determine the color they wanted, and then added it - for the Eagles, not everyone.  It’s now a custom color they can produce, but it’s not going to replace their long-standing Kelly Green or be used to manufacture Kelly green basics for the Nike Team division, for example.  
 

I used to explain it to my customers like this:  it’s a box of crayons.  It’s a pretty big box…let’s say it’s 48…but it’s not a giant box of 96 crayons.  
 

Nike has a general palette they work with, which they then base all the manufacturing of all cloth needed for all of the other product produced (hats, apparel, footwear, accessories).  Obviously it would be wildly expensive to produce cloth in every color in the rainbow, so they set a standard Red, a standard Royal, and in this case, a standard Kelly.  
 

But just like Nike Royal is not Honolulu Blue for Detroit, they work with the team to nail it down and then they can go to work to produce the cloth they need in their factories (procure material, weave it, dye it, then use it to manufacture product to spec…and that’s an oversimplification).  
 

And yes, Philly may have had variations in their Kelly Green through the years.  It looks like it was a much darker Green in the 70’s and 80’s and then became brighter in the 90’s, but I don’t know the team’s history.  This happened a lot; standards weren’t as tight as they are now.  If Wilson made the jerseys in ‘85, they just used what they called Kelly.  If Russell took over in ‘90, they used Kelly.  I’m sure there are instances where they had to change…maybe a team’s owner insisted on matching the color to the helmet, for example, but I’m making an assumption and saying that a lot of these things weren’t looked at as with much importance and just flew under the radar.

 

Modern example of this is the Chiefs.  All through the years, their Red was more of a deeper, Apple Red.  When Nike took over in ‘12, they just switched to Nike’s Red, which is much more vibrant, and in my opinion, much improved.  But watch KC closely and tell me if their helmet paint isn’t just a hair darker than their jersey color.   You won’t be able to unsee it now.  And it would be very much like that organization to say, “this is the exact color of helmet paint we’ve always used, we’re not changing it”.

 

Anyway, I’ve rambled on enough.

[BadSeed84]

The one thing that bothers me about the Eagles throwback and all the pics and stuff released.

Where is the classic wordmark?

There is even a picture of Eagles written in many different styles but NOT the classic wordmark everyone loves.

What is the endzone going to be? I just hope its not something lame like the endzone here from 1995. (And I fear it since you just see regular serifed font used in the pics)

 

 

[Coltsfootball2016]

3 hours ago, BadSeed84 said:

The one thing that bothers me about the Eagles throwback and all the pics and stuff released.

Where is the classic wordmark?

There is even a picture of Eagles written in many different styles but NOT the classic wordmark everyone loves.

What is the endzone going to be? I just hope its not something lame like the endzone here from 1995. (And I fear it since you just see regular serifed font used in the pics)

 

 

Surprised they didn't do a throwback for the 1980 Superbowl uniforms instead, 1985-1995 I don't think they made it   past the second round, despite all the talent. 

[Silver_Star]

5 hours ago, ramsjetsthunder said:

Why does everyone (not on this site) keep calling the Seahawks throwbacks 90's throwbacks?--as if they didn't wear them from '83-'00? Not to mention their basic style since their inception in '76? Is there some weird 90's nostalgia trend going around?

Exactly!!!

[ruttep]

10 hours ago, ltjets21 said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I know all throwbacks with block numbers and stripes look good but at a certain point it gets repetitive. Thats why I have always preferred the logo on jersey sleeves. I think the best solution is the Cowboys stripe stripe with the star on their navy jerseys.

 

I personally disagree -- I think that stripes usually (including in the case of the Dolphins) look better. I also think that the gap in the number outline is completely unnecessary and drags down the rest of the uniform.

[DCarp1231]

Seems to me like all teams should have a current H/A set and a throwback H/A set.

 

Just makes things easier

[HOOVER]

30 minutes ago, DCarp1231 said:

Seems to me like all teams should have a current H/A set and a throwback H/A set.

 

Just makes things easier

Agree.  I said something like this a few weeks back, that every team should have Throwbacks, which would allow for either a “Classic” uniform game every week, or a weekend or two per season when all teams are wearing them.  
 

This could also guarantee that it’s always Throwback vs Throwback, which is how it should be, IMO; having the “Oilers” in that classic uni playing someone like the Cardinals, Seahawks, or Commanders in their current duds is stupid.  Give me all the nostalgia, all at once.  Take me back, don’t tease me back.

 

Your point that they should all have H/A Throwbacks would be crucial to that.

 

 

[HOOVER]

9 hours ago, BadSeed84 said:

The one thing that bothers me about the Eagles throwback and all the pics and stuff released.

Where is the classic wordmark?

There is even a picture of Eagles written in many different styles but NOT the classic wordmark everyone loves.

What is the endzone going to be? I just hope its not something lame like the endzone here from 1995. (And I fear it since you just see regular serifed font used in the pics)

 

 

Great point.  This needed to come back with these uniforms:

 

[BBTV]

9 hours ago, BadSeed84 said:

The one thing that bothers me about the Eagles throwback and all the pics and stuff released.

Where is the classic wordmark?

There is even a picture of Eagles written in many different styles but NOT the classic wordmark everyone loves.

What is the endzone going to be? I just hope its not something lame like the endzone here from 1995. (And I fear it since you just see regular serifed font used in the pics)

 

 

 

 

That end zone was only used until the end of baseball season.  They generally painted the full wordmark on there after the baseball season ended (though 1995, they knew they were getting all new stuff the next year, so maybe they didn't care.)

 

This is from pre-'95, as evident from the mult-colored seats that were replaced by blue in '94 or '95.