The_Admiral Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 This came up in the wake of the Oakland Coliseum logo talk. What are we feeling? I have the first Jets, with the plan for public ownership until Bettman invented a new rule against it at #1/S-tier because look what happened. The Supersonics move offends my sensibilities deeply because the oilman in the giant cowboy hat had the audacity to propose a ridiculously overpriced (for 2007) arena in Renton so he could lie and say he tried. Browns, A's, Chargers, North Stars, Oilers, Baltimore Colts, how are we shaking these out? Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Mine goes, from most awful to most needed, like so: Horrific 1. Jets to Arizona 2. SuperSonics to Oklahoma City 3. Cleveland Browns to Baltimore 4. North Stars to Dallas 5. Rams to St. Louis 6. A’s to Vegas/Sacramento 7. Chargers to Los Angeles 8. Hornets to New Orleans 9. Oilers to Tennessee Bad but not unbelievably so 10. Braves to Atlanta 11. Raiders to Las Vegas 12. Raiders to Los Angeles 13. Colts to Indianaplace 14. Raiders to Oakland 15. A’s to Kansas City 16. AL Nationals/Senators MK I to Minnesota 17. Senators MK II to Dallas-Ft. Worth 18. Earthquakes to Houston Genuine toss-up 19. Expos to Washington 20. Dodgers/Giants to California 21. Warriors to the Bay Area 22. Lakers to Los Angeles 23. Rams to Los Angeles (again) 24. A’s to Oakland 25. Flames to Calgary 26. Dallas Chaparrals to San Antonio Probably a good thing 27. Pilots to Milwaukee 28. Syracuse Nationals to Philadelphia 29. Scouts to Colorado - Rockies to New Jersey 30. Rockets to Houston 31. Dallas Texans to Kansas City Mercy killing the team 32. Braves to Milwaukee 33. St. Louis Browns to Baltimore 34. Thrashers to Winnipeg 35. Coyotes to Utah 36. Seals to Barons 37. Barons to North Stars 38. Chivas USA, Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion to the afterlife Theres’s likely a few missing, but that’s my basic list. 4 Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discrim Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Expos to Washington felt like a mercy kill...both versions of the Washington Senators' moves seem like they were in the same "mercy kill" category. Nordiques to Colorado, I'd probably rank that as a toss up. The Chicago Cardinals to St. Louis, I'd rank as a mercy kill + probably a good thing bc the Bidwills' "We're selling the Cards...sike, no we're not" shenanigans basically led to the AFL existing. Cards to Arizona, also a mercy kill because it's the football Cardinals and they will inevitably screw things up somehow. Quote A strong mind gets high off success, a weak mind gets high off bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlim Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 How many franchises would've been affected if the Football Cardinals never left St Louis? Cardinals, Rams, Raiders, Chargers, 1993 expansion teams (does Charlotte/Jacksonville still get teams or does Baltimore, Memphis instead?) Does stopping the move change the path of the Browns and Oilers? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 I forgot some! Bad but not unbelievably so Whalers to Raleigh Genuine toss-up Nordiques to Colorado Cincinnati Royals to Kansas City/Kansas City-Omaha Buffalo Braves to San Diego Nets to New Jersey, then Brooklyn (do these moves count?) Baltimore Bullets to DC (does this really count?) Jazz to Utah Grizzlies to Memphis Clippers to Los Angeles Mercy killing the team Kings to Sacramento Football Cardinals to St. Louis Orioles to New York/Brewers to St. Louis The pre-Original Six teams that folded The Hawks before Atlanta Early NBA teams in general Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 The Los Angeles Raiders are such a tough case because on one hand, the L.A. Raiders as cultural institution were such a big deal: what does the world look like if silver and black don't become associated with South Central? On the other hand, it was not the Big Red moving but the Raiders that set off the chain reaction of bad NFL relocations, because if the courts had simply upheld the league's rules against relocating from its 1970 markets, then we never would have been in any of these messes and Kurt Warner's L.A. Rams would have beaten the Houston Oilers in the ultimate Hollywood ending and the Baltimore Colts would have the most self-promoting quarterback of all time. However, the fact that they opened Pandora's box, moved back to Oakland anyway, and then moved to goddamn hellhole Las Vegas after that makes the whole Los Angeles jaunt not worth it in the end. I forgot how mad the Chargers move makes me, too, with their three years at an MLS stadium in a market that can't bear them and doesn't want them before finally settling into second-tenant status at a plastic roof over plastic grass in America's most pleasant climate. 4 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Probably throw the Clippers to LA as a toss-up since it was an irrelevant franchise moving to save Donald Sterling some gas money. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimalCookie Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 49 minutes ago, schlim said: How many franchises would've been affected if the Football Cardinals never left St Louis? Cardinals, Rams, Raiders, Chargers, 1993 expansion teams (does Charlotte/Jacksonville still get teams or does Baltimore, Memphis instead?) Does stopping the move change the path of the Browns and Oilers? I think Phoenix gets Jacksonville's expansion slot and the Rams might've beat the Oilers to Tennessee (I'm not sure on Nashville or Memphis). Raiders still go back to Oakland, Browns to Baltimore. The Oilers maybe end up in Jacksonville if they still leave Houston, but if they stay the 2002 expansion goes to LA and the only relocation from the 2016-20 wave that still happens is the Raiders to Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1. Seattle Supersonics to Oklahoma City. I mean, just look at this absolute garbage: 2. Houston Oilers to Tennessee. We lost some of the most beautiful uniforms in sports, and are now stuck with dumb-ass shoulder swords. 3. San Diego Chargers to Los Angeles. They finally made powder blue the primary color after years of fans asking for it... after moving to LA and screwing over San Diego; alienating the same fans that wanted powder blue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who do you think Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 I'll do my full post later when I'm properly coffee'd up, but for now, a relocation what-if that's been on my mind but never had the opening to post. What if George Shinn had kept it in his pants and not turned all of Charlotte against him, and hadn't prompted the original Hornets to leave town? (There was some stadium noise too, but that's just Tuesday in professional sports.) No Hornets in New Orleans means no refugee NBA team for Oklahoma City from 2005-2007. If there's no trial run for OKC, does that Sonics move still happen? If the Sonics do still move but not to OKC, then where? Is Kevin Durant still blowing town in 2016? Back to Charlotte, Chris Paul is from the area (Winston-Salem). The Hornets probably still get him with that #4 pick in 2005. Since he's the hometown kid, playing for (probably) the far cooler and more respectable (and not league-owned) original Charlotte Hornets instead of the piddling New Orleans Hornets with tons of franchise turmoil, is he still beating down the door to leave in 2011? If not, are the Clippers still a radioactive sludge pile owned by the Sterlings? How much did Basketball Reasons play a role in David Stern's abrupt retirement announcement? Since Charlotte's replacement franchise was the 30th NBA franchise, is the NBA still at 29 teams right now? Maybe I can go further but I'll stop there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_prankster Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 9 hours ago, LMU said: Probably throw the Clippers to LA as a toss-up since it was an irrelevant franchise moving to save Donald Sterling some gas money. To be fair, Sterling never had much intention of staying here. Switching gears, people here in San Diego completely forgot that Los Angeles was where the Chargers really started. So did LA really steal from SD or was this the righting of a historical wrong? Quote The Fictional Story of Austus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Any ranking that doesn't have the Chargers' relocation in first place is just wrong. The Spanos family went deep into debt, failed to meaningfully improve the franchise's valuation despite moving to a larger market, still don't have their own stadium, and have no fanbase anymore. To this day, people still instinctively call them the San Diego Chargers and have to correct themselves. Allowing this relocation to happen was a NHL-level blunder by the NFL, which automatically makes it worse than the actual NHL blunders since it happened in a much more relevant league. 1 Quote POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_prankster Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 5 minutes ago, Lights Out said: Any ranking that doesn't have the Chargers' relocation in first place is just wrong. The Spanos family went deep into debt, failed to meaningfully improve the franchise's valuation despite moving to a larger market, still don't have their own stadium, and have no fanbase anymore. To this day, people still instinctively call them the San Diego Chargers and have to correct themselves. Allowing this relocation to happen was a NHL-level blunder by the NFL, which automatically makes it worse than the actual NHL blunders since it happened in a much more relevant league. So you're saying the Chargers are now the Coyotes of football? Quote The Fictional Story of Austus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 9 hours ago, SFGiants58 said: Buffalo Braves to San Diego Believe it or not, Canisius University shoulders a lot of the blame for why they moved. They, along with the Sabres, had priority over the Braves at the Memorial Auditorium, and they refused to make concessions for things like Saturday night games. Their refusal to compromise would single-handedly tie up the entire NBA's scheduling and TV deals. The Braves had to play certain home games in Toronto sometimes because Canisius' president at the time was being such a diva. The NBA eventually got sick of this arrangement and started pressuring original owner Paul Snyder to break the lease and move out ASAP. Snyder couldn't afford to build a new arena, and then the team quickly cycled through owners after he sold it, so in the end, the relocation was inevitable. Fast forward to 1999 and suddenly the Clippers are back to being the third tenant in their own arena and screwed on scheduling for another 25 years. Go figure. At least this coming season, they'll finally have their own home. 2 Quote POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 11 hours ago, SFGiants58 said: Bad but not unbelievably so ... 13. Colts to Indianaplace I mean... the team literally snuck out in the middle of the night. I don't know 100% of the story, and I'm not sure how a move could be kept secret, but AFAIK that ripped the soul out of Baltimore. It also moved a "traditional" (from a uniform and grass field perspective) franchise to a dumb-soulless-ugly dome with astroturf. It also made Baltimore look like the bad guys for "stealing" the Browns, when the reality is they should have had a team much sooner (provided there was willing ownership in place.) I'd put this as a top-tier "offensive" move. 10 hours ago, SFGiants58 said: Bad but not unbelievably so Whalers to Raleigh I "get" this one (the actual move) and I guess I can see why it's not top tier, but it ripped a team with IMO the best logo in sports and a notable history out of a (small) northeast market and put it in... Raleigh? North Carolina? I can't argue that the Whalers were a sustainable operation, but this move felt very wrong. Maybe in a different world where they were the team that moved to Denver and the Nordiques became a sustainable franchise, it wouldn't be that bad. 2 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 5 minutes ago, BBTV said: I mean... the team literally snuck out in the middle of the night. Yeah, it’s awful, but I just happened to find ones far more awful than it. Even the Hornets to New Orleans I found more awful, because of why Shin did it (mostly to run from sex pest charges in Charlotte). 5 minutes ago, BBTV said: I "get" this one (the actual move) and I guess I can see why it's not top tier, but it ripped a team with IMO the best logo in sports and a notable history out of a (small) northeast market and put it in... Raleigh? North Carolina? I can't argue that the Whalers were a sustainable operation, but this move felt very wrong. Maybe in a different world where they were the team that moved to Denver and the Nordiques became a sustainable franchise, it wouldn't be that bad. That sounds entirely reasonable. I was barely alive when the move happened, so I don’t see it as painfully as others would? I’m more looking at the sustainability of the operation in Hartford and I’m not as much of a fan of their logo (probably because it never looked correct on the green and blue sweaters). Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 2 hours ago, neo_prankster said: Switching gears, people here in San Diego completely forgot that Los Angeles was where the Chargers really started. So did LA really steal from SD or was this the righting of a historical wrong? The Chargers were only in LA for one season with catastrophically low attendance the entire time despite having one of the AFL's best teams that year. Then, like now, they were irrelevant compared to the Rams. The Spanos family is so dumb and arrogant, they ignored the lessons that Barron Hilton had already learned back then. 2 hours ago, neo_prankster said: So you're saying the Chargers are now the Coyotes of football? The Coyotes at least had their own arena for a while. They weren't mooching off Kroenke for $1 in rent. And the Mullett Arena experiment was arguably less embarrassing than the Chargers playing in a half-empty soccer stadium since it only went on for two seasons, not three. Quote POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 3 hours ago, Lights Out said: Any ranking that doesn't have the Chargers' relocation in first place is just wrong. The Spanos family went deep into debt, failed to meaningfully improve the franchise's valuation despite moving to a larger market, still don't have their own stadium, and have no fanbase anymore. To this day, people still instinctively call them the San Diego Chargers and have to correct themselves. Allowing this relocation to happen was a NHL-level blunder by the NFL, which automatically makes it worse than the actual NHL blunders since it happened in a much more relevant league. Chargers is A-tier for sure, just a completely greedy and needless move, with the waking up one morning and saying "oh we're in Los Angeles now" being particularly awful, but the drawn-out cruelty of the Winnipeg relocation and what it was ultimately in service of puts it on a level of its own. The Chargers' move really pissed me off, but if the NHL had just let Winnipeg do a Green Bay Packers deal, I wouldn't have spent 15 years going insane. 3 hours ago, who do you think said: What if George Shinn had kept it in his pants and not turned all of Charlotte against him, and hadn't prompted the original Hornets to leave town? What was really sensibility-offending about the Hornets move is that they cited the unsuitability of the Charlotte Coliseum, which seated 24,000 people and was 14 years old. Like, Christ, just renovate it to put more luxury boxes in if that's the issue. Hard to see a Supersonics move, at least to Oklahoma City, without the test run for the Hornets, but Howard Schultz was a real piece of work and could have wound up selling the team to anyone. I don't think David Stern retired over the Chris Paul trade, though. 1 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_prankster Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 Didn't Charlotte basically run the old Hornets out of town? I still feel like Houston should've got the same deal Cleveland got when the Oilers left. Speaking of Cleveland, was the city really blameless for Art Modell going behind their back to sign with Baltimore? And is Baltimore blameless for the Colts leaving? 1 Quote The Fictional Story of Austus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManillaToad Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 The funniest one is the original Ottawa Senators moving to St. Louis for one season before folding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.