NHL Off-Season 2005/06

[DEAD!]

Don't get me started on the "bankrupt" Penguins either.

Give me a break.

I'm not saying you're right but I figured you might enjoy reading this:

http://mt.hockeybird.com/fact.html

"Anyone who is cheering the Penguins' 'miraculous' recovery this

off-season probably also enjoys when Bambi's mother gets killed

and when Old Yeller was taken out back."

I spit out my tea when I read that

[lost_limey]

Wow, all these big names and movement, and who do my team end up with?

Not exactly setting the world on fire is it? Still, at least AO didn't stay in Moscow

[Andy]

While I agree with the Penguins being one of the worst teams in the early 90's as far as rising salaries go, you all should understand that Howard Baldwin is one of the most hated figures in the Pittsburgh sports community. While that doesn't excuse the Penguins role in the whole skyrocketing salaries situation, I think what most hockey fans in Pittsburgh are more excited about is the fact that the NHL, unlike the MLB where the Pirates have been losing for years, is now a level playing field where the Penguins and all other smaller-market teams can compete. Yes, I am glad that teams like the Rangers had it "stuck to them," aren't you?

As for the implication at the hockeybird.com article that the Penguins purposely lost games in order to get high draft picks and "prepare for the new CBA" - ridiculous, I don't think I really have to defend them here.

Where is all the extra money is coming from? Some businessman from southern California named William DiBaggio something-or-other was going to buy the team, but instead became an investor. I'm pretty sure that's where it's coming from.

[CJR]

While I agree with the Penguins being one of the worst teams in the early 90's as far as rising salaries go, you all should understand that Howard Baldwin is one of the most hated figures in the Pittsburgh sports community. While that doesn't excuse the Penguins role in the whole skyrocketing salaries situation...

It doesn't matter that Baldwin is hated, not one bit. I hate a lot of things, that doesn't mean they didn't happen or don't exist. Sometimes people have to deal with what their predecessors did.

...I think what most hockey fans in Pittsburgh are more excited about is the fact that the NHL, unlike the MLB where the Pirates have been losing for years, is now a level playing field where the Penguins and all other smaller-market teams can compete.

There you go excusing the Penguins' role in the "whole skyrocketing salaries situation" just because their fans are excited again. Here's the question I ask every time and no one ever gives a real answer: Why should the Pittsburgh Penguins be on even ground with the Flyers, Rangers, Red Wings, Maple Leafs, Avalanche, etc? If everyone everywhere should be even, why shouldn't there be a team in Podunk, Idaho? Why does Pittsburgh deserve a team more than Podunk if you've taken away the economic advantage of being in a given city?

Yes, I am glad that teams like the Rangers had it "stuck to them," aren't you?

Way to shoot yourself right in the foot (not that I thought you were doing well, anyway). So the Rangers deserve to be punished for their big spending in recent years, but the Penguins big spending of the 1990s deserves to be rewarded with 2 #1 picks and a #2.

As for the implication at the hockeybird.com article that the Penguins purposely lost games in order to get high draft picks and "prepare for the new CBA" - ridiculous, I don't think I really have to defend them here.

No, you don't, 'cause he never said they purposely lost games. He said "So in the years 'preparing' for the CBA, Pittsburgh lost enough games to net the 2003 first overall draft choice (Fleury), the second overall draft choice in 2004 (Malkin), and of course the first overall this year (Crosby)." This was immediately preceeded by "And, of course, President of Lemieux Group Limited Partnership in 2003, when the team jettisoned anyone earning over minimum wage." In other words, they got rid of their high priced players to prepare for the new CBA, which caused them to basically put an AHL roster out on the ice every night, and for that they were rewarded with the picks. They made the choice to have a crappy team, not specifically to lose games, and were rewarded for it.

Where is all the extra money is coming from? Some businessman from southern California named William DiBaggio something-or-other was going to buy the team, but instead became an investor. I'm pretty sure that's where it's coming from.

I'd like to know exactly how much he's dropping in to the team. The Pens would have needed a payroll of $15 million to break even in 2003-04, they have a payroll of $25 million now. Only $7 million of that can possibly be made up with ticket sales. The new guy has to be bringing in enough to cover the difference in payroll and make up the debt incurred in recent years, that means he'd be throwing a lot of money into the team for a minority owner.

[OMMF]

Grier re-ups with the Sabres.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=132810

[edmfan16]

I still think it's very fishy that all these teams that were poor for the past decade are suddenly rich rich rich, couldn't keep Weight, Poti, or Cujo but can afford Pronger AND Peca now?

What...? And it's not like the Oilers couldn't keep Poti; he sucked, so they traded him.

The Oilers payroll is going to be the exact same as it was last season. (About $33M.)

[appleclock]

Osgood back in Detroit...

Bye Jospeh... bye Hasek... oh ya, this guy!

TSN

[Davey]

Bye Jospeh... bye Hasek... oh ya, this guy!

Bye Haskey ?? He signed with Ottawa last year lol.

[Cujo]

Nevermind. Already posted.

[Andy]

I don't understand what's being argued here- I acknowledged that Howard Baldwin's Penguins were in the wrong and a large cause for the skyrocketing salaries. I didn't try to excuse that at all. So, what now? Should they stop trying to be the best team they can be because they were one of the forces behind big spending in hockey? I mean, you guys tell me what you think the Penguins should do. I suppose their punishment for having a free-spending of an owner in the 90's should be a relocation to Winnipeg. Or maybe the team should just be suspended from signing free agents for a few years.

So far I've read on here twice that the Penguins have been rewarded for their atrocious play with draft picks. I can't speak for everyone, but as a fan I personally wasn't feeling too proud of my favorite team and I wasn't having fun watching them stink up the ice only to draft #1 and #2 as their "reward." Every fan wants to see their team make the playoffs, not finish last in the league.

That being said, they got what they deserved. I'm not disputing that, but I don't think pointing to the fact that they got three high draft picks because of poor play makes the last three years of bad hockey disappear. The reason people are excited (and not only in Pittsburgh) is because the NHL was well on its way to widening the gap between the big and small market teams, and now that won't happen. I hate to make another Pirates reference, but if you follow baseball at all you know how hopeless their situation is. As a fan of the Penguins and as a fan of the NHL, I didn't want to see that happen.

As for a reason why everyone should be on a level playing field: because it makes hockey exciting. I can't give a reason for why there are teams in Nashville, Tampa Bay and Dallas, but I know the only chance for hockey to succeed there is if their teams have a chance to win. Why do they deserve a chance to win? I don't know. I just want to see hockey succeed, I want it to be popular again.

Anyway, this is my last comment on the subject since this argument could probably go on for a long time. I do enjoy the back-and-forth though, now I'm at least aware (as I was blissfully ignorant of before) that a lot of people really don't like the Penguins.

[CJR]

I'm at least aware (as I was blissfully ignorant of before) that a lot of people really don't like the Penguins.

I was going to make an intelligent reponse to your post until I saw that part.

That's right, everything is about people hating the Penguins. The NHL universe centers around your team and anyone that disagrees with you must do so because they hate your team.

I don't give a flying fluff about the Penguins, when it comes down to it, except for the fact that I can't wait until they move to Winnipeg or Kansas City so that my Wings can finally get into the Eastern Conference and not have so many West Coast road trips.

Yes, you acknowledge that Howard Baldwin fluffed up but you don't expect any punishment for it. It's okay for the Rangers to squirm but not your team.

I'm not saying the Penguins shouldn't be able to sign anyone, I'm saying that they screwed up, slashed their payroll, provided a crap product for their fans and for the league, complained about how poor they were, and were rewarded for it. Mario never should have been allowed to save a team that was in that much trouble, if the NHL really wanted to be in Pittsburgh they should have wiped the slate clean, killed the Penguins franchise, and expanded back to the city with an owner that could handle it rather than an owner who only got the team because the team owed him money.

You argued well about why everyone should be on a level playing field. I don't agree that Nashville should be able to field as good a team as Toronto if Nashville doesn't draw as many fans but you think that. You didn't tell me why Pittsburgh deserves a team more than Podunk. If everyone, everywhere is so equal now, what's so special about Pittsburgh?

[BBTV]

As a fan of one of the "haves" (as opposed to the have-nots), I can't believe I'm about to defend the small-market teams. As far as this level playing field debate, I think that there has to be a somewhat level playing field or any league will fall apart. I think that what the people who argue against revenue sharing / caps are missing is that without teams like the Penguins, Sabres, etc., there'd be nobody for the Flyers, Rangers, Wings, Leafs to play. There would end up being 7 or 8 teams in the league, and that just wouldn't work. I feel the same way about baseball, and fear that it is heading down the wrong path, even though there have been some recent improvements.

Now, if a team is not pulling even a little of its weight and is totally bringing the league down, then it is time to relocate or fold it. So while a team from a small city like Pittsburgh won't ever be near the top of revenue, it would still bring in (with a good economic structure) enough so that the rest of the teams aren't supporting them (unlike the Podunk example.)

Not that I wasn't looking forward to seeing some Podunk Penguins concepts.

[Andy]

I was going to make an intelligent reponse to your post until I saw that part.

^ This actually made me laugh. I'm glad you didn't waste your time.

Just to clarify my final statement, I don't think there's any vast right-wing conspiracy against the Penguins. I'm not a moronic "fanboy." I don't think everything is about my team. I acknowledged the Pens overspent. I said I think they've already been punished for their transgressions, and I asked what other people think their punishment should be since apparently Pittsburgh got off so lightly. I don't agree that all teams should be as good as one another, but I think they should have the chance to compete if their attendance is high, and I think the new CBA supports this idea. Finally, I don't think I really have to explain why Pittsburgh deserves a team more than Podunk. It's straight economics, man.

Alright. That's it. Go ahead, refute me, I don't care. I understand everyone is passionate about this.

Osgood signed with the Wings. Wow.

[ROCHitman]

Pittsburgh can acquire all the talent they want.

Until they get a proven 'tender (MA Fluery isn't the real deal) and unitl the LEARN how to win...they won't.

[Roger Clemente]

(MA Fluery isn't the real deal)

Oh how you stabeth thee into mine heart.

Oh, the NHL reinstated some Canucks player...did something bad last season...can't remember what...something about the Avalanche...can't remember his name...oh well, I'm sure I'll find out soon.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Andy]

The guy that hit that guy?

[OB33]

Osgood back in Detroit...

Bye Jospeh... bye Hasek... oh ya, this guy!

TSN

For Old Times' Sake

[randyc]

Richard Park to Vancouver and Jason Marshall to Anaheim

[CJR]

I'll make this quick.

I acknowledged the Pens overspent. I said I think they've already been punished for their transgressions, and I asked what other people think their punishment should be since apparently Pittsburgh got off so lightly.

I said how I think it should have gone. Instead, the Pittsburgh fans had to suffer through years of AHL hockey. The fans were punished, not the people responsible for the mess.

I don't agree that all teams should be as good as one another, but I think they should have the chance to compete if their attendance is high, and I think the new CBA supports this idea.

If the market for Team A is such that they can charge $100 per ticket and still sell out, and Team B's market is such that they can only charge $50 per ticket and still sell out, why shouldn't Team A be allowed to use that extra money to provide their fans a higher-quality on-ice product? Is the number of fans that fit into the arena all that matters or does demand factor in at all?

Finally, I don't think I really have to explain why Pittsburgh deserves a team more than Podunk. It's straight economics, man.

A very catch-all answer. Why haven't we gone to Mars yet? Economics. BringBackTheVet did your homework for you:

So while a team from a small city like Pittsburgh won't ever be near the top of revenue, it would still bring in (with a good economic structure) enough so that the rest of the teams aren't supporting them (unlike the Podunk example.)

Which brings us to the second part of the question: Why does Pittsburgh deserve a team more than Kansas City or Winnipeg (or Quebec, or Hartford, for that matter)?

[TFoA]

Didn't see much on the True Blue here, so I took it upon myself to do it.