Cleveland Browns looking at throwbacks for 06

[Gothamite]

So what?  Why should he be given a tribute that until now has been granted only to George Halas?

are you saying that no one can ever again recieve a uniform tribute like halas was granted in chicago? sorry, halas was a geat owner and all, but that dosn't mean he's the only one allowed a uniform tribute.

I think you're misreading his point.

There are certainly other people equally deserving of the kind of permanent tribute the Bears have given Halas. One recent example would be Wellington Mara, the late Giants' owner.

Mara was around the team for all 85 years of their existence. He saw every game the team ever played. Moreover, at the league level, Mara served to shape the way the game is played on the field over those 80 years. But even greater than that, Mara's vision led to the idea of revenue sharing which has made the NFL as successful as it is today. He willingly gave up the built-in advantage of owning a team in the largest city in the country (and largest media market) to share the wealth with the other teams, so that they, and the league could prosper. Because of his progressive thinking, a city of 90,000 people like Green Bay can have a team and be as economically viable as teams in cities like New York, which is almost 100 times larger.

For contrast, look at George Steinbrenner and baseball's model. Steinbrenner pays his luxury tax because the league tells him to, not out of any sense of obligation. Do you think teams in smaller markets (Kansas City, Pittsburgh) are not at a competitive disadvantage in baseball because of the uneven economics of the teams?

People like Mara and Halas built the NFL and shaped it as it grew to become the institution it is today. What did Al Lerner do that puts him on the same level as Halas and Mara? He facilitated the Browns' departure from a loyal fan base and city, and bought an expansion team in its place.

Precisely.

If the Giants wanted to do that to honor Mara, I'd be for it. If they wanted to do it to honor Tisch, I'd call it silly.

To add a permanent uniform tribute to honor a man whose contribution to the franchise is no more than every other owner of a franchise has ever done is goofy at best.

The Browns have a proud history. This "honor" is not worthy of that uniform.

[infrared41]

If the Browns really wanted to go retro, I would put numbers on the side of the helmet. For all of you Browns historians, from 1957 to 1961 the Browns had brown numbers on the sides of their helmet

I would be OK with numbers on the helmet. When it comes to making a change, the further the Browns run from the "modern" and "updated" style uniforms (Atlanta, Arizona etc.) the better.

[John in KY]

I happen to like what they have now with the thick sleeve stripes and white facemask. I don't like the grey, and I don't like the small sleeve stripes on the old jerseys.

Small stripes on the old jersey? I don't think the Browns officially had small stripes, I think some players were cutting their jerseys down to shorten the sleeves which resulted in only two stripes showing as an elastic cuff. If you looked at other players in that era (like QB Bernie Kosar or the kickers) they had the full wider stripe set, which in fact was wider than what they wear now (and almost the size of the prototype shown).

The current Reebok jerseys have "scaled down" the stripes to fit in the current almost sleeveless cut.

However, I do agree with you that the white facemask should be retained.

[John in KY]

Changes Lerner was looknig at:

I don't have NFL Network, and it is hard to tell from this screen shot, but is it possible the sleeves on the prototype are the Durene-like fabric with woven-in stripes like the Steelers use? The white and orange look pretty "flat" as opposed to the printed-on stripes on the current jersey.

[Gothamite]

The Steelers have their stripes woven in? Cool. Wish the Packers did - the screened stripes look cheesy. And not in the good way.

[John in KY]

The Steelers have their stripes woven in? Cool. Wish the Packers did - the screened stripes look cheesy. And not in the good way.

Yep, right now (for 2005) the Steelers are the only team with the old-school non-dazzle knit fabric sleeves with woven-in stripes on the authentic jersey - I was looking at one a couple of weeks ago at a local store that sells jerseys (at a grossly inflated price vs. buying from the NFL's online shop).

I'm also pretty sure the Steelers were the last team in the NFL to stop using Durene jerseys and move to the modern mesh fabrics, which probably happened sometime in the 1980s. However, while most of the jersey was mesh they retained the old Durene (or at least some type of knitted fabric) sleeves with woven in stripes. All the manufacturers since then (Starter, Nike and Reebok) have maintained this style.

I'm also fairly sure that the 70's Cowboy's jerseys had Durene sleeves with woven-in stripes but used the mesh fabric (Russell or Sand-Knit or whatever) for the rest of the jersey - this would start circa 1974 when the TV numbers moved back to the shoulders and they started using the printed numbers. I don't have the old magazines any more, but it was pretty clear that the jerseys worn in Super Bowls X, XII and XIII were made this way. I don't think the Cowboys changed to printed on stripes until the "dazzle" fabric came into use in mid to late 1980s.

[Gothamite]

Interesting. Thanks!

I wouldn't mind if the sleeve stripes were sewn-on rather than woven-in. I just think the screening looks cheap, like screened numbers do.

[scraw28]

I like the look while at that change back the pants stripes to the original orange brown orange look

[cableguy]

I have wanted the Browns to go back to their original striping on their pants ever since they changed it. Orange brown orange IS the Browns! That brown orange brown stripping never looked good. I did although like the orange pants...I remember a story in the paper when Modell first decided on that change...it stated he spent an entire day sitting up in the stands as various players modeled different shades of orange pants until he decided on one he felt most matched the helmet. I especially liked the brown jersey and orange pants combiination..those looked great!

[scraw28]

I have wanted the Browns to go back to their original striping on their pants ever since they changed it.  Orange brown orange IS the Browns!  That brown orange brown stripping never looked good.  I did although like the orange pants...I remember a story in the paper when Modell first decided on that change...it stated he spent an entire day sitting up in the stands as various players modeled different shades of orange pants until he decided on one he felt most matched the helmet.  I especially liked the brown jersey and orange pants combiination..those looked great!

I agree the Browns pant striping looks more similar to the Bears striping

[Blue Falcon]

If a tree falls in the woods, and no one hears it, does it make a sound?

If the Browns go to their throwbacks, and no one notices it, did they really change their uniforms?

[maxweb81]

Wow, couldn't dissagree more with the Cardinals one:

That gray facemask looks SOOOOOOOOOOOO out of place.

Amen to that! I think they should have no gray facemask, its too bland.

[OCE]

I happen to like what they have now with the thick sleeve stripes and white facemask.  I don't like the grey, and I don't like the small sleeve stripes on the old jerseys.

Small stripes on the old jersey? I don't think the Browns officially had small stripes, I think some players were cutting their jerseys down to shorten the sleeves which resulted in only two stripes showing as an elastic cuff. If you looked at other players in that era (like QB Bernie Kosar or the kickers) they had the full wider stripe set, which in fact was wider than what they wear now (and almost the size of the prototype shown).

The current Reebok jerseys have "scaled down" the stripes to fit in the current almost sleeveless cut.

However, I do agree with you that the white facemask should be retained.

I know for a fact that the browns for at least one season wore instead of their "traditional" stripes on the sleeves (which have been tinkered with several times) a "reduced" version that was on the cuffs instead of on the sleeve itself. i know this because value city discount store (if anybody in ne ohio knows what im talking about) was flooded with the old authentics when the design changed

they also had literally hundreds of starter jackets when mlb stopped wearing starter, damn i wish i picked up some of those, oh well!

getting back to the browns, i found a couple of pics and put them on the bottom, as you can see they actually tried to imitate the top of the old stripes, as if they were really cut off, but for this season theyre not, theyre on the cuff. oddly enough the socks were the same, they had the same number of stripes as before

i think this season was 1994, i think they wore the same design for 1995 but i dont remember. other players wore stripes that resembled these in other seasons (like tim couch) but in these cases they cut the sleeves themselves

now in 1999 they had the old stripes but much higher and for the first time the numbers were on the tops of the shoulders, also the pants stripes which used to be about the thinnest in the nfl were made much wider but were still or-br-or for i think 2 or 3 seasons

on the browns uniform history link i posted earlier, it shows a jersey with orange borders around the numbers worn in the 1980s. however i dont remember them ever wearing these in a game!

[02Rover]

I happen to like what they have now with the thick sleeve stripes and white facemask.  I don't like the grey, and I don't like the small sleeve stripes on the old jerseys.

Small stripes on the old jersey? I don't think the Browns officially had small stripes, I think some players were cutting their jerseys down to shorten the sleeves which resulted in only two stripes showing as an elastic cuff. If you looked at other players in that era (like QB Bernie Kosar or the kickers) they had the full wider stripe set, which in fact was wider than what they wear now (and almost the size of the prototype shown).

The current Reebok jerseys have "scaled down" the stripes to fit in the current almost sleeveless cut.

However, I do agree with you that the white facemask should be retained.

I know for a fact that the browns for at least one season wore instead of their "traditional" stripes on the sleeves (which have been tinkered with several times) a "reduced" version that was on the cuffs instead of on the sleeve itself. i know this because value city discount store (if anybody in ne ohio knows what im talking about) was flooded with the old authentics when the design changed

they also had literally hundreds of starter jackets when mlb stopped wearing starter, damn i wish i picked up some of those, oh well!

getting back to the browns, i found a couple of pics and put them on the bottom, as you can see they actually tried to imitate the top of the old stripes, as if they were really cut off, but for this season theyre not, theyre on the cuff. oddly enough the socks were the same, they had the same number of stripes as before

i think this season was 1994, i think they wore the same design for 1995 but i dont remember. other players wore stripes that resembled these in other seasons (like tim couch) but in these cases they cut the sleeves themselves

now in 1999 they had the old stripes but much higher and for the first time the numbers were on the tops of the shoulders, also the pants stripes which used to be about the thinnest in the nfl were made much wider but were still or-br-or for i think 2 or 3 seasons

on the browns uniform history link i posted earlier, it shows a jersey with orange borders around the numbers worn in the 1980s. however i dont remember them ever wearing these in a game!

The official uniform stripe design has remained the same. In 93- 95 (these pics are from 1994) the players chose to crop their unis where they wanted. The official look never changed, but each player had his own preference.

Good find and good question, though.

[John in KY]

I happen to like what they have now with the thick sleeve stripes and white facemask.  I don't like the grey, and I don't like the small sleeve stripes on the old jerseys.

Small stripes on the old jersey? I don't think the Browns officially had small stripes, I think some players were cutting their jerseys down to shorten the sleeves which resulted in only two stripes showing as an elastic cuff. If you looked at other players in that era (like QB Bernie Kosar or the kickers) they had the full wider stripe set, which in fact was wider than what they wear now (and almost the size of the prototype shown).

The current Reebok jerseys have "scaled down" the stripes to fit in the current almost sleeveless cut.

However, I do agree with you that the white facemask should be retained.

I know for a fact that the browns for at least one season wore instead of their "traditional" stripes on the sleeves (which have been tinkered with several times) a "reduced" version that was on the cuffs instead of on the sleeve itself. i know this because value city discount store (if anybody in ne ohio knows what im talking about) was flooded with the old authentics when the design changed

they also had literally hundreds of starter jackets when mlb stopped wearing starter, damn i wish i picked up some of those, oh well!

getting back to the browns, i found a couple of pics and put them on the bottom, as you can see they actually tried to imitate the top of the old stripes, as if they were really cut off, but for this season theyre not, theyre on the cuff. oddly enough the socks were the same, they had the same number of stripes as before

i think this season was 1994, i think they wore the same design for 1995 but i dont remember. other players wore stripes that resembled these in other seasons (like tim couch) but in these cases they cut the sleeves themselves

now in 1999 they had the old stripes but much higher and for the first time the numbers were on the tops of the shoulders, also the pants stripes which used to be about the thinnest in the nfl were made much wider but were still or-br-or for i think 2 or 3 seasons

on the browns uniform history link i posted earlier, it shows a jersey with orange borders around the numbers worn in the 1980s. however i dont remember them ever wearing these in a game!

I didn't know that those became the official jersey for 1994/95; I though that was just a player modification (back when the NFL wasn't so anal about messing with the logos/stripes/etc.). Those pictures are definitely from 1994 - you can see the "NFL 75th Anniversary" patch in both photos. I was up in NE Ohio from September 1991-February 1994, so we moved back to Louisville before that became the "NFL Approved" jersey design. At least in 1991-93 there were all kinds of mixes; I still remember Kosar wearing the jersey with the full stripes one year, and then one with the bottom two stripes cut off another year, while other players wore ones like in the two photos.

I was in Louisville back in 1984 so we didn't get many Browns games (we were considered Bengals territory for the NBC regional coverage back then) but I do remember the Browns wearing the white jersey with the orange border numbers (and odd thin orange/huge brown/thin orange stripes) against the Bengals in the game in Cincinnati and against the Seahawks in Seatlle, and I believe we got the game from Cleveland where they wore the brown version against the Bengals.

[DGivens87]

I actually have a tape of the '94 Wild Card game between the Browns and Pats, and the Browns players all seem to have different "cuts" of their jersey sleeves. Guys like Eric Turner (RIP) and Stevon Moore have just a single white/orange stripe, while Vinny Testaverde and Michael Dean Perry have the full-blown 3-striped sleeves. But yeah, each player really had his own variation of sleeve stripes.

[cableguy]

To back STL FANATIC's point about grey looking horrible with orange...just look at the Phoniex Sun's alternate orange uniforms with the grey trim...makes a man want to throw up!

[Gothamite]

GRAY FACEMASKS RULE OVER ALL, BITCHES!!!!!!!

I like the gray masks.

I don't mind them at all when a team goes retro (Indy, Giants) ... but having them on the Cardinals helmets, especially with their new "Falconesque" uniforms, is ridiculous.

Yes, but the problem in that case isn't with the gray face masks - it's with the rest of that hideous uniform.

The helmet is the only thing they got right.

[Chazberg]

Wow, couldn't dissagree more with the Cardinals one:

That gray facemask looks SOOOOOOOOOOOO out of place.

No, it looks just fine becuase it is inconspicuous and calls no attention to itself, as opposed to say, a bright red facemask. I know this comes as a shock to all you Bengals and Falcons-loving younguns, but gray facemasks are timeless and classy; they do their job which is to protect your grill. They aren't flashy, which is why they work so well. They look wonderful on every helmet they currently adorn, and they look phenomenal on the Browns' as well. I'm looking forward to next season if they'll be wearing those babies full-time.

[TFoA]

Wow, couldn't dissagree more with the Cardinals one:

That gray facemask looks SOOOOOOOOOOOO out of place.

No, it looks just fine becuase it is inconspicuous and calls no attention to itself, as opposed to say, a bright red facemask. I know this comes as a shock to all you Bengals and Falcons-loving younguns, but gray facemasks are timeless and classy; they do their job which is to protect your grill. They aren't flashy, which is why they work so well. They look wonderful on every helmet they currently adorn, and they look phenomenal on the Browns' as well. I'm looking forward to next season if they'll be wearing those babies full-time.

But, that jersey is from the year 2005. Compare that to the grey facemask, and it looks like Kurt Warner's head is from 1975. The least I would've done would be to add white facemasks due to the fact that there is no trace of grey in any of the Cardinals logos.