Offensive sports nicknames/logos

[winghaz]

Can anyone explain to me how the name Redskins is offensive to Native Americans if it's name is for the red paint worn on the face when going into battle? I have yet to read anything addressing this issue. All I read is that it's offensive without explanation. Isn't it the equivilant to naming a team the Camouflage?

Redskins means red-skinned people, namely American Indians. Their skin is a reddish tan.

Redskins was anything but a complimentary term in the Old West, Colonial times or any other era. It was meant to demean American Indians.

A much better term is the Noble Red Man.

[Captain Apollo]

How about ALL OF THEM!!! Your paper should be about how if you WANT to be offended it's real easy to find something to offend you.

Written by a "Lower Middle Class White Guy". Hey that would make a great name for a football team!

[Rishard101]

I had to write a paper on this exact thing. I basically went the way of saying most Indian nicknames aren't offensive at all. Take for example the Seminoles of Florida State who did it to honor the tribe, and them and the tribe still work together. Also, the Fighting Illini of Illinois is not offensive to anyone considering the Illini is not even a real tribe, and could be described as a person who lives in Illinois. Also in Illinois there is a high school with the name Blazing Trojans which many people could take the rwrong way.

[clippers6]

the name Redskins definitely takes the cake on this one.

Can anyone explain to me how the name Redskins is offensive to Native Americans if it's name is for the red paint worn on the face when going into battle? I have yet to read anything addressing this issue. All I read is that it's offensive without explanation. Isn't it the equivilant to naming a team the Camouflage?

The Redskins=face paint explanation is the one used by fans and defenders of the name in recent years to deflect criticism. Another one is that the name refers to the men who participated in the Boston Tea Party. These are not the "official" stories. The team was sued over the name and the face paint/tea partys explanations were not used. The change from Boston Braves to Boston (later Washington) Redskins was done to keep the theme of the team the same, but to differentiate them from the Boston Braves baseball team also playing there at the time. There is much discussion on why they picked Redskins. There is evidence that terms such as redskin and whiteskin were used by many Native Americans to describe themselves, because terms such as Native American and Caucassian weren't in wide use at the time. For some this is automatic evidence that the name is not offensive, but many would argue that by 1933 (when the name change occured) and certainly by todays standards it is highly offensive. The "official" story for the name change, which is itself controversial as there is not support for the story other than the recollection of the original owner's descendents, is that the name was created to honor William Dietz, the Native American coach of the team. At the time, Dietz would appear at games in a headdress. There was also a large number of player of Native American descent on the team. All publically said they loved the name. A Native American is credited with getting the team to go with what has evolved into the current logo after the team used only a letter R as their logo in the 60s.

So as you can see the name was (probably) not intended to offend anyone. On the contrary, it was intended to honor "redskins". As far as intentions go, the name seems more respectful than Chief Wahoo (Cleveland Indians mascot, on all their hats) and the tomahawk chop. However, Wahoo or the chop, while arguably disrespectful, aren't really offensive. A funny little caricture and an arm motion set to Hollywood movie music don't carry the weight of the term redskin. Even if the name redskin was meant to honor a certain ethnic group, it doesn't change the fact that the same term was used as a derogatory name for the same group (see any old Hollywood western).

That is why I see it as wrong to have that as a name for the team. I can't say I'm 100% sure I'm right on this one. I usually agree with those who think people need to lighten up. However, terms such as Chinamen or Negroes were once considered appropriate ways to refer to certain groups of people, but they were adopted by racists and I can't really imagine any team getting away with one of those names today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...5&notFound=true

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog...ves/002961.html

[gordie_delini]

I think most of these points are moot - Essentially, no matter what the team nickname, no matter the sport, somebody somewhere could be, and not necessarily is, offended by some team's nickname. I think the discussion about the Potomac Cannons nickname is legit, as people who are severely anti-violence and anti-war would be offended by such nicknames and others. People who are pro-animal rights, such as PETA, may be offended by the use or depiction of certain animal mascots. The religious don't like connotations of anything un-Christian. Minority groups certainly don't appreciate derogatory references to their group in sports names. Again, the point is that someone somewhere can, and probably will be, offended by some team's nickname or logo. Keep in mind this is coming from a fairly liberal guy and a registered democrat - I have to say I really was pleased to see the comments made by Hawk36. I find that really satisfying to read that one such minority group is not offended by the majority of nicknames representing them in sports.

I think this could be an interesting part of your paper, to discuss the point I've just made - it's a big part of why these discussions even come up.

[totc]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Atlanta Crackers ("cracker" being a synonym for a poor Caucasian). Which, of course, makes the name "Atlanta Black Crackers" an awesomely bad anachronism.

[hawk36]

Even if the name redskin was meant to honor a certain ethnic group, it doesn't change the fact that the same term was used as a derogatory name for the same group (see any old Hollywood western). That is why I see it as wrong to have that as a name for the team.

Interesting, good discussion.

I would have to argue though that we must be careful to not let a small minority force change in the name of the majority of Native Americans (including myself) who see little or nothing wrong with the mascot/name.

Can you imagine a small minority of Irish/Americans getting the Boston Celtics or Notre Dame to change their name? Think of the uproar withing their own community if this were to happen.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Even if the name redskin was meant to honor a certain ethnic group, it doesn't change the fact that the same term was used as a derogatory name for the same group (see any old Hollywood western). That is why I see it as wrong to have that as a name for the team.

Interesting, good discussion.

I would have to argue though that we must be careful to not let a small minority force change in the name of the majority of Native Americans (including myself) who see little or nothing wrong with the mascot/name.

Can you imagine a small minority of Irish/Americans getting the Boston Celtics or Notre Dame to change their name? Think of the uproar withing their own community if this were to happen.

it ends with every team eliminating their team mascots and nick names, and replacing them with Team A, Team B and Team C.

[westcoastoiler]

Well here in BC local native culture is respected differently I guess. The native culture is strengthening and trying to undo damage of an oppressive government. Local nations prefer to be identified by their nation, not a generalized term like Indian. Here, it really is a wrong word and is slightly offensive, more ignorant than anything...that's just how it is here. Locally, words like Totem Pole and Indian are trying to be erased because they are not words that correctly describe what they are named after. A Totem pole really isn't a totem - totems are idols that are worshipped but here poles are not used for this purpose, they mainly tell stories so if you don't know the name of a pole you can say story pole, that isn't a P.C. word, its just more accurate. saying first nations is sorta PC and still generalizes but its the same as saying Asian if you can tell someone looks asian but can't tell if they are from Korea or China.

The fact is, in America, native culture is treated as if it is dead. It is shown in museums as some sort of weird history that doesn't exist anymore - or if it does as sort of a strange hippy thing, well it's alive and it's real and the real native people here are spreading the word and it conflicts with what i'm reading here. I believe the term Indian has stuck in America because Natives do not hold much political power to change that. It is true that native people in the US call themselves Indians, but I just think that is strange. it's not a huge deal but everytime i hear the word i cringe. Culture differences and that's all. I can't even say who is right and who is wrong, I am just basing my beliefs on what first nations people in BC have taught me - and these are the same people who actually brought me INTO their culture and let me experience it first hand which changed my life. this culture is not accessible to the "western" public, and sadly is sometimes not even accessible to first nations people (that is another essay topic!!)

All the team names mentioned so far are American are they not?

As far as your topic goes, dont' worry about being right or wrong, as with any paper just pick a side and show some good evidence.

imo, the oppression of a spiritually rich race, full of culture, good ideas amazing stories and important life lessons is more of an issue that some stupid sports team with a "tradition." it's only a game. genocide happened here too when the spanish came...i don't think it's smart to say that a racial sports name CAN'T be offensive, because it's not like the team is full of native americans in the first place. it goes way beyond offensiveness into issues like opression, political power, history and the respect and understanding of a culture who, by the way, has more of a connection to this land than a sports team.

[Northern Thunder]

Minor league baseball has seen some borderline offensive (to some people) nicknames:

The Bloomington, IL Bloomers

Waycross, GA Blowhards

Bonham, TX Boogers

Hannibal, MO Cannibals

Longview, TX Cannibals

Canton, IL Chinks

Selma, AL Christians

Taylorville, IL Christians

Columbia, SC Commies

Decatur, IL Commies

Orangeburg, SC Cotton Pickers

Green Bay, WI Duck Wallopers

Memphis, TN Fever Germs

Iola, KS Gasbags

Staunton, VA Hayseeds

Watsonville, CA Hayseeds

Graham, TX Hijackers

Rockford, IL Indignants

Cincinnati, OH Killers

Jacksonville, IL Lunatics

Nevada, MO Lunatics

Lincoln, NE Missing Links

Asheville, NC Moonshiners

Paris, TX Parisites

Sterling, IL Rag Chewers

Gastonia, NC Rippers

Pittsburgh, PA Smoked Italians

Bloomington, IL Suckers

Tarboro, NC Tarbabies

Bristol, CT Tramps

Pittsburgh, PA Zulus

[totc]

Minor league baseball has seen some borderline offensive (to some people) nicknames:

The Bloomington, IL Bloomers

Waycross, GA Blowhards

Bonham, TX Boogers

Hannibal, MO Cannibals

Longview, TX Cannibals

Canton, IL Chinks

Selma, AL Christians

Taylorville, IL Christians

Columbia, SC Commies

Decatur, IL Commies

Orangeburg, SC Cotton Pickers

Green Bay, WI Duck Wallopers

Memphis, TN Fever Germs

Iola, KS Gasbags

Staunton, VA Hayseeds

Watsonville, CA Hayseeds

Graham, TX Hijackers

Rockford, IL Indignants

Cincinnati, OH Killers

Jacksonville, IL Lunatics

Nevada, MO Lunatics

Lincoln, NE Missing Links

Asheville, NC Moonshiners

Paris, TX Parisites

Sterling, IL Rag Chewers

Gastonia, NC Rippers

Pittsburgh, PA Smoked Italians

Bloomington, IL Suckers

Tarboro, NC Tarbabies

Bristol, CT Tramps

Pittsburgh, PA Zulus

Or, offensive to politicians:

Iola (WI) Gasbags

[Chiefster2000]

There are no logos or nicknames that could possibly be offensive. There are only people who want to make others lives hell, but getting them to change them.

[tvthax]

The most offensive high school nickname in Colorado: Lamar Savages

Most wimpy high school nickname in Colorado, and perhaps anywhere in the U.S.: Fort Collins Lambkins

[winghaz]

Bonham, TX Boogers

Now there's a team nickname that must come back.

But I'd hate to see the mascot.

[Shumway]

The most offensive high school nickname in Colorado: Lamar Savages

Most wimpy high school nickname in Colorado, and perhaps anywhere in the U.S.: Fort Collins Lambkins

Is a Lambkin just a young lamb?

Actually, my high school was supposed to be the Lambs, until our one gym teacher back in the day(like WAY back in the day....he still subs though), suggested we become the Pioneers. So that's what we were.

[Runner]

Minor league baseball has seen some borderline offensive (to some people) nicknames:

The Bloomington, IL Bloomers

Waycross, GA Blowhards

Bonham, TX Boogers

Hannibal, MO Cannibals

Longview, TX Cannibals

Canton, IL Chinks

Selma, AL Christians

Taylorville, IL Christians

Columbia, SC Commies

Decatur, IL Commies

Orangeburg, SC Cotton Pickers

Green Bay, WI Duck Wallopers

Memphis, TN Fever Germs

Iola, KS Gasbags

Staunton, VA Hayseeds

Watsonville, CA Hayseeds

Graham, TX Hijackers

Rockford, IL Indignants

Cincinnati, OH Killers

Jacksonville, IL Lunatics

Nevada, MO Lunatics

Lincoln, NE Missing Links

Asheville, NC Moonshiners

Paris, TX Parisites

Sterling, IL Rag Chewers

Gastonia, NC Rippers

Pittsburgh, PA Smoked Italians

Bloomington, IL Suckers

Tarboro, NC Tarbabies

Bristol, CT Tramps

Pittsburgh, PA Zulus

I live in Cincinnati and I didn't know we had a Minor league baseball team called the Killers.

[jrh31584]

At least in Columbia, the minor league team was called the Commies after the city changed to a commission form of government.

[Eye]

Hey my high school is called the Bombers. And our logo is an airplane with missiles on it. I don't think that anyone in our school finds the name or the logo offensive. I know I certainly don't, but those anti-war liberal people might.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

Hey my high school is called the Bombers. And our logo is an airplane with missiles on it. I don't think that anyone in our school finds the name or the logo offensive. I know I certainly don't, but those anti-war liberal people might.

Those damn anti-war liberal people! No one has voiced any protestations against my school's logo, but, they might!

[Discrim]

Hey my high school is called the Bombers. And our logo is an airplane with missiles on it. I don't think that anyone in our school finds the name or the logo offensive. I know I certainly don't, but those anti-war liberal people might.

i aint got no problem with a team callin themselves teh Bombers. hell, my favorite footy side's Bombers...but you may wanna be careful where you wear your school hoodie or whatever...

why a Milwaukee Bomber was grounded