Red 1970-1974 Houston Astros Hat

[SiddFinch]

Whatever, Your Mom's Box.

In case people don't know this sophomoric reference - it is supposed to be something you say when you are leaving a situation never to return again...

[Lee.]

Still looks like a dark orange, to me. Especially against the red pinstripes in your tartan there.

But that's me, what do I know, I'm only member #113.

[Gothamite]

Yes, but you're presuming that New Era is correct in this.

For a company with as many quality control issues as New Era, that's a bad presumption to make.

Here is pic.  Sorry but it is nearly impossible to get the pic to look exactly like the hat does in person. 

...and there you have it.

[BamaHater]

Whatever, the hat I have IS Houston Astros Red. Whether they wore it or not it is a sweet hat. By the way Distant Replays were I bought the hat does alot of research before they send a design to New Era to make. They are picky people and would not aloow any old hat to be made and claim it to be of the era.

[Fred T. Jane]

Houston Astros 1973 jacket:

Yeah, he'll need a trip to the burn centre after that one.

Anyhow, to prove PANTONE's (and everyone else's) point, I took the picture of the 1971 Houston Astros, and eyedropped the Cap, Sleeve, Jersey text, belt, and stirrup socks of the home and road uniforms. Here's the PANTONE process uncoated values (I'm a PANTONE neophyte, so is there a better colour benchmark for PANTONE colours)

HOME

Cap: I get 74-3 (exact match)

Sleeve: 74-3 (exact match)

Belt: 74-3 (exact match)

Stirrup Sock: 74-3 (exact match)

ROAD

Cap: I get 92-2 (poor match.)

Sleeve: There's specks in the sleeve image, so I get 92-2 (poor match.) for the body and 95-2 (not an exact match, but it's closer than 92-2)

Belt: Same situation as the Sleeves

Stirrup Sock: Same situation as the Sleeves

This situation, in a strange sort of way, proves both of PANTONE's points. (1) you can't trust images to determine exact colours, this single image gives 2-3 different colours. (2) The home jersey affirms PANTONE's statement that it was a darker orange, but orange nonetheless.

[southernyankee]

Wow ! Hard to believe one person can insist on disputing many reputable member's claims on this board. Could be the guy's color - blind. At any rate, on occasion I've seen posts on this board in the past depicting a guy beating a dead horse. I think that may be appropriate in this case...

[TruColor]

Here is pic. Sorry but it is nearly impossible to get the pic to look exactly like the hat does in person. This is the best I could get. In person the hat is definently Houston Astros Red.

Unbelievable. That's all I'm gonna say.

[slapshot]

Anyhow, to prove PANTONE's (and everyone else's) point, I took the picture of the 1971 Houston Astros, and eyedropped the Cap, Sleeve, Jersey text, belt, and stirrup socks of the home and road uniforms. Here's the PANTONE process uncoated values (I'm a PANTONE neophyte, so is there a better colour benchmark for PANTONE colours)

HOME

Cap: I get 74-3 (exact match)

Sleeve: 74-3 (exact match)

Belt: 74-3 (exact match)

Stirrup Sock: 74-3 (exact match)

ROAD

Cap: I get 92-2 (poor match.)

Sleeve: There's specks in the sleeve image, so I get 92-2 (poor match.) for the body and 95-2 (not an exact match, but it's closer than 92-2)

Belt: Same situation as the Sleeves

Stirrup Sock: Same situation as the Sleeves

This situation, in a strange sort of way, proves both of PANTONE's points. (1) you can't trust images to determine exact colours, this single image gives 2-3 different colours. (2) The home jersey affirms PANTONE's statement that it was a darker orange, but orange nonetheless.

Did you eyedrop that picture of the uniforms? The picture of the road version is just a bit darker than the home picture?look at the space between the legs, down by the stirrups. The road version is clearly darker than the home. So even using this one specific set of images, there is enough discrepancy between their backgrounds to accurately prove a color difference in the fabric colors.

[Fred T. Jane]

Did you eyedrop that picture of the uniforms? The picture of the road version is just a bit darker than the home picture?look at the space between the legs, down by the stirrups. The road version is clearly darker than the home. So even using this one specific set of images, there is enough discrepancy between their backgrounds to accurately prove a color difference in the fabric colors.

Yep. And that's what I figure the colour discrepancy when I eyedropped them comes from. Also, the home picture seems to not have the rogue pixels that the road uniform seems to have.

[Gothamite]

By the way Distant Replays were I bought the hat does alot of research before they send a design to New Era to make.  They are picky people and would not aloow any old hat to be made and claim it to be of the era.

I don't think you're right about Distant Replays. I know that New Era's quality control is so shoddy, that I wouldn't use any of their products as evidence for anything.

Whatever, the hat I have IS Houston Astros Red.  Whether they wore it or not it is a sweet hat.

That's the point. It's not an authentic hat, but it doesn't need to be. If you're happy with it, that's great.

[iowahoo]

With all of the logo and jersey afficionados on here , I am surprised so many people are taken aback at zippers on uniforms. Quite common in the 60s/70s wool jerseys and vests of the era.

[Bearcats]

ignorance is bliss my friends

[SiddFinch]

Distant Replays were I bought the hat does alot of research before they send a design to New Era to make. They are picky people and would not aloow any old hat to be made and claim it to be of the era.

I buy alot of hats from Distant Replays and I like their service alot, but I would not trust that just because they sell something, it is 100% historically accurate. For at least two months they were selling a "Texas Rangers 86-92 Fitted Hat". Only problem was that the colors on the white and red logo were reversed. Only in the past week did they finally revise it to say "Texas Rangers Royal Blue Fitted Hat".

[pooter]

Believe whatever you want but

this

Astros red

and this

astros orange

are two different colors.

I also find it odd that Okkonen's book has the "darker orange" consistent with the same years New Era is selling the cap, and the same years photo evidence makes it seem like the orange changed. That's three references that point to some form of change. Sure New Era has made mistakes, sure Okkonen colored with markers, sure photos can lie. But they all match up 1971-1974 as a darker orange. Doesn't that seem a tad suspicious.

I'll bet you $50.00 via PayPal that if you call the Astros ( they would be the source )and ask them if they have ever wore red caps prior to 2000 ( or when they went to the brick unis ) they will tell you that they never wore red caps, always orange.

If you are using a Topps baseball card as proof, you are naive in your sources.

(See the argument about the D'backs cap that Topps airbrushed with the wrong colors. Use the "Search" function.)

[Sec19Row53]

Here is pic. Sorry but it is nearly impossible to get the pic to look exactly like the hat does in person. This is the best I could get. In person the hat is definently Houston Astros Red.

[big image snipped]

Just curious, BamaHater - are you saying this hat is orange, or red?

[oddball]

I'm not sure on when this thread started but running across it today I might be able to shed some light on this problem. With all the graphic designers out there, I'm surprised no one stepped up and mentioned the problem here. "What we have here is a failure to communicate." The problem is multiple. First as anyone who has painted will tell you Orange is a mixture between yellow and red. Your basic printing colors are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black or CMYK. Mixing Magenta and Yellow would give you your orange, but when you add more red or magenta you get the next color on the color wheel Red-Orange. There's the problem the Astros list it as Orange when in reality it's Red-Orange (you list the primary colors first Red, green, blue). Hense everyone is right and wrong. The other problems you have on is when you scan a picture in, you loose quality and when a picture is printed you lose quality. So those baseball cards have lost 2 "generations" of quality and for exact color are unreliable. When you print something out from screen it comes out darker, so when you scan something in, you need to lighten it to get a truer printed version. The reason you deal with this problem is the difference between additive light (Monitor or RGB where all color is white) and subtractive light or pigment (print, CMYK where all color is black). Subtractive light is where you are actually seeing reflection of light bouncing off something. So when dealing with a 1970's color of a cap from a picture is iffy. You're dealing with a picture that was printed and used as reference, and as pantone can tell you there was no real standard color process to make things exact. Even in your picture of the new hat it looks redish, but also understand the lighting changes colors. I know that through taking enough pictures and unless you have a professional shoot, you won't get that "true" color even with a digital camera. I've tried to sample a color that was orange-yellow and when I sampled it, it was brown. Yes, the hat looks cool. Yes it is Red, yes it is orange... because it's Red-Orange. Pantone's right, and the owner of the hat is right. Everyone's right! I hope that clarified somethings... or maybe it confused some people.

[chakfu]

I don't see what the discrepancy is:

Pantone's data clearly says that the uniforms used "Houston Astros Orange" from 1965-74, and "Houston Astros Uniform Orange" 1 and 2 from 1975-82. "Houston Astros Logo Orange" appears close to the '65-74 "Houston Astros Orange" but is only used for the logo.

The 1965-74 "Houston Astros Orange" is clearly more red looking than either '75-82 "Houston Astros Uniform Orange". Whether you want to call the '65-74 "Houston Astros Orange" orange or red is just a matter of semantincs. Obviously the hat is a reproduction of the '65-74 hat, which is more red than the '75-82 red.

This reminds me of some troll arguments whether the Lakers are purple or blue.

[BamaHater]

Just want to clear up any confusion on the color of my hat it is Houston Astros Red Look here under secondary colors and it is here. It might not have been used for a hat color but it was actually an offical color for the team.

[TruColor]

Just want to clear up any confusion on the color of my hat it is Houston Astros Red Look here under secondary colors and it is here. It might not have been used for a hat color but it was actually an offical color for the team.

Is your hat the exact same color as a Cincinnati Reds hat? Because, that's what that Astros Red is.

If your hat is that color, then it's a horrible mistake in color.

[TruColor]

Let also finish up this horror of a thread by saying that the color swatches here are basically all using confirmed Pantone colors. Of course, anything prior to 1980 are going to be estimates, but Todd spent a lot of time working with the MLB in nailing down the exact colors (i.e., Cooperstown Collection) of the earlier sets. Todd is absolutely adament about the Orange used in the early '70s...fabrics and bad photography are the culprits here.

The only real estimates are in some of the actual shades used in the road uniforms - but those are pretty simple to guess-timate. There aren't too many variations that I've found.