Steve Spurrier Speaks Up

[VitaminD]

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

My point is that the original Confederate flag, the "Stars and bars", doesn't have the same racist connection the Confederate battle flag (or naval jack) does, so why not use the "stars and bars" instead of the tainted battle flag/naval jack?

If the KKK was able to co-opt the Confederate battle flag and assign a racial connotation to it, what makes you think that a different Confederate flag couldn't be similarly co-opted by the same people, and for the same reasons?

I have no personal stance on the flag; my family wasn't in this country at the time of the Civil War, and I was raised in the North. I can see both sides of the argument. It IS a part of our shared history, and history can be painful. But just as the KKK made the connection between the flag and racism, should we also be able to undo that association and let the flag stand as a relic of history? It only stands as a symbol of racism because we have allowed the narrowminded pinheads in their white robes to make it so; insodoing, it has robbed Southerners who lost family in the Civil War of a means to honor their fallen dead without bringing race into that memorialization.

Still, the Confederate flag is not onthe same level as the swastika. The difference between the Confederate flag(s) and the swastika is that the Confederate flags weren't made an explicit symbol of racism until decades after the CSA ceased to be, and it has only been a tool of the KKK to make a racist symbol out of something that wasn't intrinsically racist. The swastika, on the other hand, was the flag of the Nazi party and came to represent all things German at that time as a national emblem and national flag, including the violent racial policies of the ruling party. A closer parallel to the Confederate flag would be if people were to try to stop people from speaking German, since that was the language of the Nazis; though the language itself was not an explicitly racist tool, it was the language of the people who enacted horrible policies, and were people to make a similar association between German and racial hatred, a similar call for the end of German could ensue. Ich wille das nicht.

[koizim]

Ornery black man's point of view: Who f**ckin' cares?! The Confederacy LOST! I'm free and that's what matters. As long as people aren't demanding I wave a Confederate flag I could care less. I guess it could be found offensive, but so can the black power fist, rap music, and when I refer to my close friends as n-words. South Carolina, like many other southern states, have very strong connections to this flag.

[OnWis97]

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

Why do you think it should it not be above the capital? It seems you are acknowledging the offense that is associated with it. It seems that you are making this slight concession because there is just a little PC in you, just creeping out. Next: Fully PC--you won't even think it's ok to call black women "nappy headed hos." Soon thereafter, you'll get pissed off at someone making sterotypes about gays. And finally, you'll be a homosexual campaigning for Dennis Kucinich. You're on the way down hill. I, for one, will miss you and I suspect the GOP and the heterosexual community will as well.

As for the Genaral Lee, there is a huge difference between some private venture using it (and letting us decide whether or not it bothers us enough to not patronize it--or in this case, "watch"it) and the State.

There is nothing wrong with flying the flag of the south on a confederate burial ground, its historical.

Then I assume it is OK to fly swastika flags on Nazi burial grounds?

-------

Though I do find it interesting that the only two (as far as I know) black posters on this thread do not find it to be a big deal. Nevertheless, I think it is inappropriate. Yeah, we have larger fish to fry. But this fish can, and should, be fried in a matter of minutes.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Yeah, we have larger fish to fry. But this fish can, and should, be fried in a matter of minutes.

I'm hungry. Thanks.

[charger77]

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

They have made a second one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800328/ No word on whether or not it's been thoroughly cleansed for our liberal PC sensibilities.

That movie trashed everything the original dukes were based on.

[OnWis97]

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

They have made a second one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800328/ No word on whether or not it's been thoroughly cleansed for our liberal PC sensibilities.

That movie trashed everything the original dukes were based on.

Just to be clear, that's moonshine, car chasing and car jumping, right?

[charger77]

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

They have made a second one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800328/ No word on whether or not it's been thoroughly cleansed for our liberal PC sensibilities.

That movie trashed everything the original dukes were based on.

Just to be clear, that's moonshine, car chasing and car jumping, right?

The original Dukes of Hazzard was a family show. The recent theater movie and The Beginning clearly were not.

[leopard88]

That movie trashed everything the original dukes were based on.

Just to be clear, that's moonshine, car chasing and car jumping, right?

I thought it was civil disobedience and a Huey Long-esque redistribution of wealth.

[buckeyes1]

It's a damn flag, they should be able to keep it if they want.

[Snazel]

I was born in England, raised in Canada and make my living and resident in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle), so I really can't have an educated opinion on the confederate flag.

What's cool about Spurrier is, being a southerner, he's basically has a leg to stand on regarding his opinion of the flag. I am unsure why a state insists on flying a flag that has its history tied to division and slavery. Like it or not, that is the legacy of that flag.

But, if the majority of the citizens in that state want that flag to fly...it flies...that's how democracy works. But, democracy also allows Spurrier to voice his opinion and personally I am glad he did.

[IceCap]

No there is no racist connection to this flag that was a PC creation.

Um, no. It wasn't. The Confederate battle flag/naval jack was adopted as a symbol by the KKK during the Civil Rights movement in the late 1950's/1960's. Until then the KKK had used their own banner as well as the American flag.

Then during the Civil Rights movement the KKK adopted the CSA battle flag and naval jack as banners of their racist ideology. Since then the CSA battle flag and naval jack have had a racist taint to them.

So no Tank, the PC police didn't turn the CSA battle flag/naval jack into a racist symbol, the KKK did.

You know the swastika was originally a symbol of good luck... so should the German parliament buildings still fly the Nazi flag?

The Nazi swastika didn't. If a culture who identifies the traditional swastika with good luck wants to fly it on a flag, all the power to them.

I'm not sure what your point was. We both agree that the southern States shouldn't fly the CSA naval jack or battle flag because it has racist connections. I was merely countering Tank's argument that the flag(s) aren't racist symbols, explaining to him that they are racist symbols due to the KKK's adoption of them in the 50's and 60's. No where did I say the CSA flag(s) past "non-racist" history should mean it should be allowed to fly.

It should not be above the capitol but I don't see the issue with in on the burial ground, next thing you will be removing it from the General Lee in the next Dukes of Hazzard movie should we be put through such torture they make another one.

My point is that the original Confederate flag, the "Stars and bars", doesn't have the same racist connection the Confederate battle flag (or naval jack) does, so why not use the "stars and bars" instead of the tainted battle flag/naval jack?

If the KKK was able to co-opt the Confederate battle flag and assign a racial connotation to it, what makes you think that a different Confederate flag couldn't be similarly co-opted by the same people, and for the same reasons?

Essentially it would be who would use it first. Prior to the KKK adopting the CSA battle flag and naval jack they really didn't have any status other then that of historical flags. The CSA "stars and bars" still has that status. The KKK doesn't use it.

So if you got a movement of people who want to remember the history of the South and want to use a flag to represent that history, and they use the "stars and bars" over the battle flag & naval jack, and make a huge point about it due to connections with racism, then in the public's mind the "stars and bars" will have been connected with a historical purpose rather then with the KKK.

But, if the majority of the citizens in that state want that flag to fly...it flies...that's how democracy works. But, democracy also allows Spurrier to voice his opinion and personally I am glad he did.

The US Constitution does not give the majority the right of mob-rule. In fact it does just the opposite. It protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

[Fred T. Jane]

I was born in England, raised in Canada and make my living and resident in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle), so I really can't have an educated opinion on the confederate flag.

What's cool about Spurrier is, being a southerner, he's basically has a leg to stand on regarding his opinion of the flag. I am unsure why a state insists on flying a flag that has its history tied to division and slavery. Like it or not, that is the legacy of that flag.

But, if the majority of the citizens in that state want that flag to fly...it flies...that's how democracy works. But, democracy also allows Spurrier to voice his opinion and personally I am glad he did.

South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union (By about 4 months), and was traditionally the leader in States Rights arguments in the Antebellum US. South Carolinians tend to be quite proud of their independent streak, much like Texans tend to be. That's the short version of it.

[rams80]

I was born in England, raised in Canada and make my living and resident in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle), so I really can't have an educated opinion on the confederate flag.

What's cool about Spurrier is, being a southerner, he's basically has a leg to stand on regarding his opinion of the flag. I am unsure why a state insists on flying a flag that has its history tied to division and slavery. Like it or not, that is the legacy of that flag.

But, if the majority of the citizens in that state want that flag to fly...it flies...that's how democracy works. But, democracy also allows Spurrier to voice his opinion and personally I am glad he did.

South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union (By about 4 months), and was traditionally the leader in States Rights arguments in the Antebellum US. South Carolinians tend to be quite proud of their independent streak, much like Texans tend to be. That's the short version of it.

http://tcotrel.tripod.com/statemottos.html

For South Carolina: Remember The Civil War? We Didn't Actually Surrender

EDIT-upon further scanning, the site for which the above links to is somewhat right wing, be forewarned.

[DEAD!]

http://tcotrel.tripod.com/statemottos.html

For South Carolina: Remember The Civil War? We Didn't Actually Surrender

EDIT-upon further scanning, the site for which the above links to is somewhat right wing, be forewarned.

I have to admit some of those are funny:

New Jersey: You Want A ##$%##! Motto? I Got Yer ##$%##! Motto Right Here!

Wisconsin: Come Cut Our Cheese.