8-year old banned from hockey league in Shawville

[BCBoy]

Very interesting read.

8-year old banned from hockey league in Shawville

[IceCap]

Very interesting read.

8-year old banned from hockey league in Shawville

Very interesting indeed. All though it doesn't surprise me.

[DEAD!]

OK, where's Don Cherry when you need him?

[IceCap]

OK, where's Don Cherry when you need him?

[Breakwood]

If these people don't want to worry about the French language, maybe they should play in the Ontario league.

[cleckie]

That's complete bull. This kid has done nothing, caught in a battle between moronic adults. All he wants to do is play hockey.

What is wrong with a community in Quebec that speaks English? If a similar situation were to happen in another province with a French speaking community there would be unbelievable outrage.

In either situation it would be looked upon as discrimination which is wrong, what makes it worse is that they are punishing an 8 year old child for social & political issues.

This is Canada where we have two official languages, and both should be accepted no matter what part of the country you live in.

[IceCap]

If these people don't want to worry about the French language, maybe they should play in the Ontario league.

Shawville is in Quebec, they can't play in the Ontario leagues

Yet an other example of the Quebec government's desire to suppress the English community within their boarders.

We as a country were founded by two groups of people, the British and the French. Canada has two official languages, English and French. That's all well and good, except that the Quebec government doesn't equality between the languages, they want French domination. They realize they can't achieve that on a national level, so they're content to discriminate against English speakers in their own boarders.

Plains of Abraham? James Wolfe defeating Louis-Joseph de Montcalm? The Seven Years' War? The British won the fight for Canada, and Canada has a predominately English-speaking culture because of it. Should the Québécois be allowed to maintain their distinct language and culture? Of course they should, but they shouldn't use it as a means to oppress the English of the province.

[Swiss]

Reading the article and your opinions, I'm remembering Glenn Ford, the great actor... he was Canadian, born in Québec.

Had he got any problem being an English-speaking Quebe*ois?

[winghaz]

Glenn Ford, however, moved with his family to Santa Monica, Calif., when he was 8 years old. He joined the United States Marines during World War II. He was a Canadian-born American who didn't have to deal with the kind of crap this young man has to deal with.

[CityOfWalrus]

So he was banned for being too good?

well me and him have something in common though since I was banned from my adult league because I had 48goals-21assists-69points-40Pims in 14games.. so me and jared i guess have a bond...

but he shouldn't of been banned either

[Sodboy13]

Thank you for once again jacking a thread to remind everybody what a great hockey player you think you are.

[IceCap]

Reading the article and your opinions, I'm remembering Glenn Ford, the great actor... he was Canadian, born in Québec.

Had he got any problem being an English-speaking Quebe*ois?

Glenn Ford, however, moved with his family to Santa Monica, Calif., when he was 8 years old. He joined the United States Marines during World War II. He was a Canadian-born American who didn't have to deal with the kind of crap this young man has to deal with.

Exactly.

Also, the "destroy English wherever it exists" campaign started by the Québécois nationalists didn't get going until the 60's when Charles de Gaulle compared Quebec under Canada to France under Nazi Germany in his "Vive le Québec libre" speech

[Snazel]

Ugh this reeks of bias.

This reminds me of the Toronto Star, where just about every single day, if you look hard enough you will find one or two articles that support these two themes:

1. America is stupid and Canada is vastly superior.

2. Quebec is a vicious place that hates English Canadians.

These themes will be under the guise of some "social justice" concern, but really is just a smear tactic to elevate everyone's feelings about "how great Ontario is".

We don't really know the whole story on this kid. The reporter here, only hints that he was suspended due to language, and the town itself has a history of thumbing its nose at the government. If you think the Quebec government is Draconian, try the federal government of Canada on for size. Their obliteration of human rights at various junctures in its history is mortifying, and far worse than anything Rene Levesque ever did.

The Ontario government is not much better, searching and seizing materials from a range of businesses they deemed to be "out of skew", and favoring certain religions over the other in its educational system.

I digress, but its very possible this kid was banned, because the team is competing in too low a tier and bracket, producing scores and results that go beyond the spirit of a kid's league. This kid was chosen to help even the playing field.

It could also be culturally motivated too, but we don't know that for sure. The fact this writer from Ontario immediately leaps to that assumption is typical Ontario bias.

I love Ontario, I always will. I think Toronto is a fantastic city. But this article is a demonstration of the cultural antipathy in Canada, that is pervasive ON BOTH SIDES. English Canadians are not saints, Ontario hockey is not without its ugly incidents and to paint Quebec as some evil place that hates kids that don't speak french is unfair - and a message Ontario media seems to preach every now and again, because it makes sensational press.

English Canadian press pulls the same trick with the USA. Every day CBC radio or CBC news puts out some piece that illustrates some fact or incident that makes Canada superior to the USA. It's a deeply cultural thing in Canada, to bash the USA, in a passive-aggressive way.

The number of Canadians I meet who bash the USA for "not knowing anything about Canada", but can't tell me who the second Prime Minister of their own country was, is staggering.

Again, I love Canada, I always will. I am proud to have been raised there, proud to have been a Canadian and I'd fight for that country if it were ever invaded. But, it's media is just as biased as American media. It has its own agenda, and in my opinion this editorial is more about a sensational slander of Quebec, than the actual facts about why the kid and the team was penalized for the up and coming tournament.

I've seen prejudice on both sides. I was affected by Rene Levesque's bill 101, and pushed into an all-french school because I was an immigrant from England. I was also villified and taunted when I moved to Ontario, for having come from Quebec, and I've witnessed Toronto police verbally abuse a relative of mine, simply because he was Quebecois. I've seen employers of mine openly tell me they would not hire someone from Quebec...and when I told him I was from Quebec originally, he was stunned and upset.

My apologies if my opinion offends you. I do respect others feel differently, but I did want to offer my ten cents on the subject.

I just hate how Canada slaps each side of its cultural divide around, for the sake of making its own side seem superior. It's a sad, tired, ugly tactic, and it perpetuates prejudice that I have personally been a victim of.

END RANT - sorry for the harsh tone.

[Breakwood]

If these people don't want to worry about the French language, maybe they should play in the Ontario league.

Shawville is in Quebec, they can't play in the Ontario leagues

Yet an other example of the Quebec government's desire to suppress the English community within their boarders.

Something's telling me you haven't been to Quebec since the end of the 90's. Ever since the PQ's been ousted, English is tolerated in Quebec more than French is tolerated in Ontario. The language police are dead in Quebec. The laws might still be there, but they're not even enforced anymore.

The Anglophone media loves to portay Quebec as some backwards society where the English aren't welcome anywhere, but that's just not the case. Sure the Quebec government would rather things be in French, but what's wrong with that. It's their official language. English isn't an official language, but the government still allows people to use it in legal procedings.

The days of English persecution are over, hell they didn't really exsist anyways.

[hecticbro]

If these people don't want to worry about the French language, maybe they should play in the Ontario league.

They won't let them play in the Ontario league.

This situation is sickening.

So he was banned for being too good?

well me and him have something in common though since I was banned from my adult league because I had 48goals-21assists-69points-40Pims in 14games.. so me and jared i guess have a bond...

but he shouldn't of been banned either

Wow, you should probably try out for the NHL!

I wonder what they'd do if Wayne Gretzky tried to join a rec league? Probably ban him too!

[IceCap]

Ugh this reeks of bias.

This reminds me of the Toronto Star, where just about every single day, if you look hard enough you will find one or two articles that support these two themes:

1. America is stupid and Canada is vastly superior.

2. Quebec is a vicious place that hates English Canadians.

1) Show me where in that article anyone said anything about America being inferior to Canada. I realize it does happen, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the story at had. Your objections to this trend in Canadian journalism could have been saved until a thread they actually belonged in came up.

2) It is. Since Bill 101 anyway. My mom had to leave Montréal because she couldn't get a job just because English is her first language. My dad, also an English Québécois from Montréal, had to walk past tanks and soldiers during the October crisis because the FLQ was kidnapping and murdering English-speaking Québécois left, right, and centre. So save me your "the Quebec nationalists aren't that bad" speech. Since Bill 101 it's been their mission to oppress the English living in Quebec.

These themes will be under the guise of some "social justice" concern, but really is just a smear tactic to elevate everyone's feelings about "how great Ontario is".

We don't really know the whole story on this kid. The reporter here, only hints that he was suspended due to language, and the town itself has a history of thumbing its nose at the government.

Um, no. This is about a kid being banned from Quebec youth hockey because he plays for a team that's primarily English-speaking and is apparently kicking the rest of the league's a$$. Ontario has nothing to do with this, this about the Quebec government's continued discrimination against the English of their province.

If you think the Quebec government is Draconian, try the federal government of Canada on for size. Their obliteration of human rights at various junctures in its history is mortifying, and far worse than anything Rene Levesque ever did.

Bull

The War Measures Act as used by Pierre Trudeau was necessary, otherwise the FLQ would have been able to continue their IRA-like campaign of terrorism.

True, both times it was used in the two World Wars it was abused, but it's no worse then what they did in the States.

Rene Levesque made it his mission to wipe English away from Quebec.

The Ontario government is not much better, searching and seizing materials from a range of businesses they deemed to be "out of skew", and favoring certain religions over the other in its educational system.

Has the Ontarian government been on a campaign for 25+ years trying to oppress the French living in Ontario? Are French children placed in schools that force them to speak English?

I digress, but its very possible this kid was banned, because the team is competing in too low a tier and bracket, producing scores and results that go beyond the spirit of a kid's league. This kid was chosen to help even the playing field.

If they were simply concerned about levelling the playing field then they would have bumped the entire team up a tier. Simple as that.

Instead they BAN a kid. Ban. Not suspend him, but ban him. How is that in the spirit of kid's hockey?

If this team was from a primarily French community they would have left it alone or simply moved the team up a tier.

It could also be culturally motivated too, but we don't know that for sure. The fact this writer from Ontario immediately leaps to that assumption is typical Ontario bias.

Enough with the Ontario bias. Ontario has nothing to do with this. This is the Quebec government again proving its anti-English stance. Only this time they stooped low enough to ban a kid from playing hockey. How can you possibly defend this, outside of your obvious Quebec bias?

I love Ontario, I always will. I think Toronto is a fantastic city.

It must be tough love, because outside of saying "Toronto is a fantastic city" you have said nothing of the province other then it being a skewed, anti-Quebec, narcissistic draconian dictatorship.

But this article is a demonstration of the cultural antipathy in Canada, that is pervasive ON BOTH SIDES. English Canadians are not saints, Ontario hockey is not without its ugly incidents and to paint Quebec as some evil place that hates kids that don't speak french is unfair - and a message Ontario media seems to preach every now and again, because it makes sensational press.

I never said that English Canadians were perfect, or that Ontario hockey doesn't have its dark underbelly.

I will, however, say that yes, Quebec is a place where people are vilified for not speaking French, where businesses are fined for having English-only signs, even when the community is mostly English.

It's not sensationalized media, it's the truth. I'm sorry the truth about your beloved province's anti-English stance hurts, but hey, the truth can do that. If you want that to change move back to Quebec and elect people more interested in social justice and less interested in separation and the oppression of English-speakers.

English Canadian press pulls the same trick with the USA. Every day CBC radio or CBC news puts out some piece that illustrates some fact or incident that makes Canada superior to the USA. It's a deeply cultural thing in Canada, to bash the USA, in a passive-aggressive way.

Again, this may be true, but save it for when it's actually relevant.

The number of Canadians I meet who bash the USA for "not knowing anything about Canada", but can't tell me who the second Prime Minister of their own country was, is staggering.

Alexander Mackenzie was Canada's second PM. The second US President was John Adams.

Again, I love Canada, I always will. I am proud to have been raised there, proud to have been a Canadian and I'd fight for that country if it were ever invaded. But, it's media is just as biased as American media. It has its own agenda, and in my opinion this editorial is more about a sensational slander of Quebec, than the actual facts about why the kid and the team was penalized for the up and coming tournament.

That's great. I would fight to death for this country to. That's why I hate to see Quebec oppress its English-speakers, because the ultra-French nationalistic ideals the PQ seems to have adopted go against what this country was founded and stands for.

Any type of media, anywhere has its own agenda. Find me a news channel, a paper, a magazine, a blog, etc... that doesn't have its own agenda.

This isn't sensational slander, though. Does the author have an anti-Quebec bias? I don't know, I don't know him, and I haven't read anything else he's written.

The fact remains though that one of the top players for a highly skilled team from an English community in Quebec was BANED. That doesn't seem suspicious to you at all? Again, if they wanted to even out the playing field they could have knocked the team up a tier. Again, if this was a French team no banning would have taken place, the powers-that-be probably wouldn't have done anything.

I've seen prejudice on both sides. I was affected by Rene Levesque's bill 101, and pushed into an all-french school because I was an immigrant from England. I was also villified and taunted when I moved to Ontario, for having come from Quebec, and I've witnessed Toronto police verbally abuse a relative of mine, simply because he was Quebecois. I've seen employers of mine openly tell me they would not hire someone from Quebec...and when I told him I was from Quebec originally, he was stunned and upset.

Of course people on both sides are jerks about it, but Quebec is the only side to actively and continually suppress the minority language, in its case English. This story is simply more proof of it.

I just hate how Canada slaps each side of its cultural divide around, for the sake of making its own side seem superior. It's a sad, tired, ugly tactic, and it perpetuates prejudice that I have personally been a victim of.

A short version of Canadian history: The English Canadians beat the French Canadians during the Seven Years War, and the French Canadians have been vying for a rematch ever since.

Sure there are English Canadians who have prejudices against French Canadians, but the French Canadians in power (the Quebec government) are the only ones actively working to suppress the English-speaking residence of their province.

Something's telling me you haven't been to Quebec since the end of the 90's. Ever since the PQ's been ousted, English is tolerated in Quebec more than French is tolerated in Ontario. The language police are dead in Quebec. The laws might still be there, but they're not even enforced anymore.

The Anglophone media loves to portay Quebec as some backwards society where the English aren't welcome anywhere, but that's just not the case. Sure the Quebec government would rather things be in French, but what's wrong with that. It's their official language. English isn't an official language, but the government still allows people to use it in legal procedings.

The days of English persecution are over, hell they didn't really exsist anyways.

I haven't been to Quebec since my grandfather's funeral in 2002. I wasn't exactly focused on the cultural and political situation at the time. From what I remember before that, and the stories I've heard from my parents, it's not a pretty picture for English-speakers.

When your province has more of an attachment to the provincial flag then to the Canadian flag, you have a problem.

The days of English persecution are over, hell they didn't really exsist anyways.

If you honestly believe their was never any type of persecution against the English in Quebec then there's no point arguing with you, because you're blind to the reality of the situation.

[Snazel]

This is about a kid being banned from Quebec youth hockey because he plays for a team that's primarily English-speaking and is apparently kicking the rest of the league's a$$

Actually, if you read the fine line of the article it's apparent this team is playing in a lower tier and is kicking lesser team's to the curb, when it should be playing in a higher tier, a fact the board seems to suggest is the real reason, but is only mentioned in passing in the article. This happens all the time in kid's hockey leagues and when teams insist on staying the lower tier it can ruin the sportsmanship of the league.

It happens in Ontario, the US, Quebec, you name it.

Language was only added as a factor based on speculation by the reporter. I see no defintive proof this was why he was excluded. The reporter just speculates. That's not good reporting.

The reporter of this article is from Ontario, writes for the Toronto Star which is why I mention the possibility Ontario bias in this article.

While this article does not mention US as inferior to Canada, this is a common theme in the Toronto Star, and is therefore relevant to mention because it illustrates some of the bias in English Canadian media. So I made that point, that the Star often prints OP-ED pieces as news. The Sun has a different slant, but it can be just as guilty at times. Montreal papers are no better - or worse.

Believe me, there is bias in French Canadian media and US media as well. I recognize that.

Ontario's track record of racism and prejudice is not a very good one, let's all face that fact. I don't deny some of the issues in Quebec, but this just looks to me like an Ontario reporter blaming language, on an issue that might not definitively be about language, it might be about sportsmanship, the reporter jumped to a conclusion - and broadcast for the sake of sensationalizing the story.

A short version of Canadian history: The English Canadians beat the French Canadians during the Seven Years War, and the French Canadians have been vying for a rematch ever since.

You are suggesting French Canadians want war. Are you really comfortable with that statement? I hope not, because its bold statements like this, that cause and perpetuate the cultural divide within Canada.

Sure there are English Canadians who have prejudices against French Canadians, but the French Canadians in power (the Quebec government) are the only ones actively working to suppress the English-speaking residence of their province.

Oh? Have you experienced Canada as a French-speaking Canadian? It's not always a happy experience. I've personally witnessed prejudice against French-speaking Canadians in two forms. I saw a relative of mine who is a French-Canadian chastized by the Toronto police for that fact...and I've seen an former employer of mine, specifically deny a skilled candidate a job because of his french accent.

Bias exists on both sides of this cultural border. I have a unique perspective on this. I was born in England was raised as a child in Quebec under Rene Levesque. I was put in a French-only school, because of my immigrant status, despite only speaking limited french. I also have 1/4th of my family (maternal Grandfather), that is a French-Canadian from Quebec as are his ancestors. (He met my maternal Grandmother while stationed in England during WWII).

So I have relatives on both sides of this equation and I've seen both been ridiculed for who they are and how they speak. It makes me sad. Canada at times, makes me sad.

I'm an American now, proud of it, but I'll never lose pride for Canada either. It's a shame both nations have prejudice embedded in them. One day, I think, (I hope) we'll all rise above it.

I've said my last piece on this. I've stated my case and my heartfelt feelings. I respect difference of opinion. I understand emotions run high when these topics are raised. I look forward to rebuttal, but I won't respond to it, so this thread doens't get entirely out of hand. I did enjoy what you wrote both publically and privately on this thread IceCap, thanks for sharing your thought.

[IceCap]

This is about a kid being banned from Quebec youth hockey because he plays for a team that's primarily English-speaking and is apparently kicking the rest of the league's a$$

Actually, if you read the fine line of the article it's apparent this team is playing in a lower tier and is kicking lesser team's to the curb, when it should be playing in a higher tier, a fact the board seems to suggest is the real reason, but is only mentioned in passing in the article. This happens all the time in kid's hockey leagues and when teams insist on staying the lower tier it can ruin the sportsmanship of the league.

It happens in Ontario, the US, Quebec, you name it.

I'm well aware that more talented teams insist on staying in lower tiers to dominate the competition all over the place. Like I said earlier, if the board was truly concerned about a fair playing field they would have forcibly bumped the team up a tier.

Banning the kid from playing hockey though? That's what seems suspicious, and I honestly wouldn't put it above Quebec nationalists to do something like this. They could have bumped the team up a tier, and that would have been fine. By banning one of the team's top players it looks like the board is carrying on the policy of discriminating against the English.

Language was only added as a factor based on speculation by the reporter. I see no defintive proof this was why he was excluded. The reporter just speculates. That's not good reporting.

There's no proof that he was banned to even out the playing field either. All we have is the statement from the board. Should we just accept whatever we're told and not dig deeper? I say dig away, and I'm pretty sure language played a huge part in this case.

The reporter of this article is from Ontario, writes for the Toronto Star which is why I mention the possibility Ontario bias in this article.

I know what you meant, but it's still irrelevant to the fact that a team in a Quebec youth hockey league, a team that plays in an English community, is being handicapped by the board who banned one of the team's top players. Considering they could have just bumped the team up a tier and no one would have said anything, I question their motives, especially considering not one person from Shawville who spoke English was present at the all French meeting where the decision to ban the kid took place.

While this article does not mention US as inferior to Canada, this is a common theme in the Toronto Star, and is therefore relevant to mention because it illustrates some of the bias in English Canadian media. So I made that point, that the Star often prints OP-ED pieces as news. The Sun has a different slant, but it can be just as guilty at times. Montreal papers are no better - or worse.

Like I said earlier, your valid concerns about anti-US reporting in Canadian press would have been better suited for a thread dedicated to that particular subject. I happen to agree there is an anti-American slant in the Canadian press, but I still don't see how this fits into the story at hand.

Believe me, there is bias in French Canadian media and US media as well. I recognize that.

That's good to know you can see both sides to the media issue.

My main objection to your earlier post is your inability to accept that the Quebec government has systematically tried to oppress the English population of the province for over 25 years.

Ontario's track record of racism and prejudice is not a very good one, let's all face that fact. I don't deny some of the issues in Quebec, but this just looks to me like an Ontario reporter blaming language, on an issue that might not definitively be about language, it might be about sportsmanship, the reporter jumped to a conclusion - and broadcast for the sake of sensationalizing the story.

I never said Ontario has a clean track-record.

Lets look at the facts though, which province has language police to ensure that the minority language is marginalized?

Which province purposely places students who speak the minority language into schools that only use the majority language in an attempt to purge the child of the minority language?

Which province fines businesses for only having signs in the minority language, even if the community as a whole is dominated by minority language speakers?

Ontario has its own set of problems, but when it comes to using language as a tool of political and social oppression Quebec takes the cake.

You are suggesting French Canadians want war. Are you really comfortable with that statement? I hope not, because its bold statements like this, that cause and perpetuate the cultural divide within Canada.

Not French Canadians, but Quebec nationals. With the recent influx of immigrants coming into Quebec who don't want to leave Canada separatists are more likely then ever to lose a separation referendum.

So I wouldn't put it above them to try and spark a civil war to gain Quebec independence if they can't achieve it the democratic way. As someone who has had family spill blood for Canada I don't want to see it dissolved, so any measures to stop this treasonous rampant Quebec nationalism is ok by me.

Oh? Have you experienced Canada as a French-speaking Canadian? It's not always a happy experience. I've personally witnessed prejudice against French-speaking Canadians in two forms. I saw a relative of mine who is a French-Canadian chastized by the Toronto police for that fact...and I've seen an former employer of mine, specifically deny a skilled candidate a job because of his french accent.

Sorry, I find it hard to feel sorry for your friend who was denied for a job due to his French accent seeing as my mom was denied a job in Quebec due to her speaking English as a first language.

Bias exists on both sides of this cultural border. I have a unique perspective on this. I was born in England was raised as a child in Quebec under Rene Levesque. I was put in a French-only school, because of my immigrant status, despite only speaking limited french. I also have 1/4th of my family (maternal Grandfather), that is a French-Canadian from Quebec as are his ancestors. (He met my maternal Grandmother while stationed in England during WWII).

So I have relatives on both sides of this equation and I've seen both been ridiculed for who they are and how they speak. It makes me sad. Canada at times, makes me sad.

Yes, both sides ridicule each other, and it truly is sad, especially considering I want to see this country united and cured from its petty regional disputes. And yes, I would agree with you for each French Canadian jerk who ridicules the English there is an English Canadian jerk who ridicules the French.

However, I feel I need to bring this up again:

Which province has language police to ensure that the minority language is marginalized?

Which province purposely places students who speak the minority language into schools that only use the majority language in an attempt to purge the child of the minority language?

Which province fines businesses for only having signs in the minority language, even if the community as a whole is dominated by minority language speakers?

While both sides have ignorant jerks, it seems like only in Quebec do the ignorant jerks win power.

It's a shame both nations have prejudice embedded in them. One day, I think, (I hope) we'll all rise above it.

So do I, but Bill 101 and the policies it enacted did more harm then good in that regard.

I've said my last piece on this. I've stated my case and my heartfelt feelings. I respect difference of opinion. I understand emotions run high when these topics are raised. I look forward to rebuttal, but I won't respond to it, so this thread doens't get entirely out of hand. I did enjoy what you wrote both publically and privately on this thread IceCap, thanks for sharing your thought.

As have I. I love this country, and a united Canada is something I look forward to. As far as I'm concerned Quebec can maintain their unique language and culture without separation, and they can maintain that language and culture without using it as a tool to repress the English of the province.

Likewise to you, thank you for intelligent and thought-provoking insights on the matter. They were truly appreciated. I am able to see where you are coming from, I just hope you were able to see my perspective as well.

[Swiss]

Now I've read that article. Well, my first language choice is French, after English but I can tell you that some Quebec officials are nuts.

Being a Swiss citizen I must respect all the languages inside my country knowing that the others also respect my language.

In my old country you can find some cantons (Swiss version of states and provinces) that manage two languages. There is more: Switzerland has a trilingual canton: The Grisons.

Oh yes, the Swiss history is very different to the one from Canada. But some people should learn from there that a pacific co-existence of two languages could be possible.

And... how dare you cut the joy of a kid!!! Let kids play hockey, baseball, soccer, etcetera and let adults learn to behave rightfully.

[Fred T. Jane]

A short version of Canadian history: The English Canadians beat the French Canadians during the Seven Years War, and the French Canadians have been vying for a rematch ever since.

Apart from 6 Ranger companies, and 2 battalions of the Royal American Regiment sent to bolster his force from the American colonies, Wolfe's force consisted of solely British regulars.