NHL to expand?

[IceCap]

...none of which were won during your lifetime. You've experienced just as many Cup wins by Toronto as I have with the Thrashers, and they've played a total of 7 years.

41 years and counting.....the Chicago Cubs of the NHL!

...and none of which were won when the NHL had more than 9 teams!

1927 Loren, 1927.

You said it yourself, you like the attempt to link the Sens of old with the current club. Now as a history buff, both in an academic and athletic sense, I won't object. By linking the two teams you give the current club a very rich history. If you do that, however, you have to accept their 80 year Cup drought. You can't claim the original team's history and championships without accepting a Cup-less 80 years.

Meanwhile I'll just admire those 13 Cup banners we have hanging at the ACC.

...none of which were won during your lifetime. You've experienced just as many Cup wins by Toronto as I have with the Thrashers, and they've played a total of 7 years.

41 years and counting.....the Chicago Cubs of the NHL!

Yet in those seven years that both the Leafs and Thrashers have been around Toronto still has more post-season success. So who's really got the edge here?

Oh, and BTW there are two teams with longer Cup droughts then the Leafs. Chicago hasn't won it since '61, and if your one of those Sens fans who's in favour of linking the two pro Ottawa franchises, as our very own Loren C., I mean Fred T. is, then the Sens rank in with the longest drought of 80 years.

[Sodboy13]

Oh, and BTW there are two teams with longer Cup droughts then the Leafs. Chicago hasn't won it since '61, and if your one of those Sens fans who's in favour of linking the two pro Ottawa franchises, as our very own Loren C., I mean Fred T. is, then the Sens rank in with the longest drought of 80 years.

True, but Ottawa only has a 28-season drought. They didn't field a team for 51 seasons. Of course, I guess the argument could be made that the Leafs haven't fielded a team for quite some time, but at least they're putting guys in sweaters on ice for league-sanctioned play, so I guess all those years count.

Funny thing about this board: I used to not care about the Leafs one way or another. But Leafs fans, when talking about their team (and inevitably, about other teams, and their far-reaching inferiorites) have actually made me form a strong dislike for the team. You guys are like the Oakland Raiders on ice, you know that?

[njmeadowlanders]

I'm fine with Long Island having a team to call its own. In fact, I wish Long Island still had the Jets and Nets. Most Jets fans are from the island anyway, aren't they?

While technically Queens is the easternmost part of Long Island, it isn't really considered Long Island. It's one of the five boroughs, and thus considered part of NYC. However, the Nets DID play out in Nassau county, which is where the Islanders have always played...

Long Island is Mets and Jets country when it comes to those two, but north jersey will yield you a lot of Jet fans as well. Yeah its more Giants, but it's not like it used to be...

(Definately still over saturated with Yankee fans though...)

[Lee.]

Leafs fans, when talking about their team (and inevitably, about other teams, and their far-reaching inferiorites) have actually made me form a strong dislike for the team. You guys are like the Oakland Raiders on ice, you know that?

Welcome to my world.

[IceCap]

Oh, and BTW there are two teams with longer Cup droughts then the Leafs. Chicago hasn't won it since '61, and if your one of those Sens fans who's in favour of linking the two pro Ottawa franchises, as our very own Loren C., I mean Fred T. is, then the Sens rank in with the longest drought of 80 years.

True, but Ottawa only has a 28-season drought. They didn't field a team for 51 seasons. Of course, I guess the argument could be made that the Leafs haven't fielded a team for quite some time, but at least they're putting guys in sweaters on ice for league-sanctioned play, so I guess all those years count.

A Blackhawks fan has no business criticizing an other team for a lack of NHL-calibre play

Just kidding, I have no beef with the Blackhawks.

Anyway, as for the Sens, it's sort of "you have to take it all, or nothing."

If you want to claim the 10 Cups the original team won as belonging to the current team, then you have to accept the 80 year Cup drought.

The Sens were in the same boat as the Leafs, Habs, Bruins, Blackhawks, Red Wings, and Rangers when they left Ottawa and then folded a season later in St. Louis.

The "Original 6" were able to survive the Depression, why not the Sens? The franchise was unable to survive, and they died. It falls on the team for not being able to compete for 51 years. Survival of the Fittest. So if the fans of the current Sens team want to claim those 10 Cups as their own, go for it. I'm all for upping the prestige of franchises, and by extension the league. If you guys do actually claim those Cups though, you have to accept that 80 year drought. You can't have it both ways.

Funny thing about this board: I used to not care about the Leafs one way or another. But Leafs fans, when talking about their team (and inevitably, about other teams, and their far-reaching inferiorites) have actually made me form a strong dislike for the team. You guys are like the Oakland Raiders on ice, you know that?

I'm sorry you feel this way. Honestly, I hope I haven't contributed to this. I'm just defending my team. Does it help that my team happens to be an unpopular one? No, but in the end that's all I'm doing. If HL and Fred C. Klien want to bash the Leafs, all the power to them, sports would be dull without trash-talk. If they want to go ahead and do that though, I'm going to defend my team, and if that means bashing their teams in retaliation then so be it. If they want to dish it out they better be prepared to take it.

If defending my team, something everyone has done and will continue to do here, is somehow seen as "crass" because the team I'm defending happens to be the Toronto Maple Leafs, then so be it.

I wouldn't say inferiorities have anything to do about it. Even if we leave out the Cup totals and Cup droughts the Thrashers are a team that's made the playoffs once in their existence, and they were swept. The Sens are a team that only manages to make it past the second round when they don't have to play the Leafs. The Leafs have beaten them all four times they've faced them in the post-season.

So compared to those two teams, what is it exactly that I'm suppose to feel inferior about as a Leafs fan?

[CC97]

Funny thing about this board: I used to not care about the Leafs one way or another. But Leafs fans, when talking about their team (and inevitably, about other teams, and their far-reaching inferiorites) have actually made me form a strong dislike for the team. You guys are like the Oakland Raiders on ice, you know that?

When someone rips on the team, we defend it... Icecap mentioned how he'll admire his teams cup banners and people jumped on him for it.

What a prick, eh?

[Sport]

What about Flordia, Carolina, Atlanta, Colombus and many more teams.

Uh, Brendan? You're aware that two of these four showed a profit last year, right?

True, however the other two didn't make any money because they aren't real locations.

-E.A.R.

As the resident Columbus Blue Jackets fan here and current Columbus resident I'm going to have to step in here and say that none of you have any idea what you're talking about. You're all assuming that because this isn't Cincinnati or Cleveland that we can't support a major league franchise.

First of all Columbus is the 15th largest city in the United States (730,657) and 32 largest metro area (1,725,570). It is the largest city in Ohio which makes it a viable location for an NHL franchise. We can support a professional sports franchise and we have since 2000 without any problem.

Second of all the Blue Jackets have been one of only a handful of profitable teams in this league. They were one of eleven teams to turn a profit in the season that prompted the lockout (03-04).

They play in an unsaturated NHL market with the closest team being Pittsburgh at 185 miles, unlike your Devils who have been outdrawn by my Blue Jackets at the Box office every year the Jackets have existed. This team has finished in the top half of the league in 4 out of there 6 years despite having a crappy product on the ice and once cracked the big 10. They have never been in the bottom ten for attendance.

I just get pissed off when people like yourself say that it isn't a real location when it clearly has the corporate support, and fan support to be an asset to this league. Hell, it already is an asset to this league.

All I have to say is that now that the Jackass Doug Maclean is gone, this team finally has some hope of getting better. And when the Jackets are good, watch out, because that arena will be packed night after night. We have an inferiority complex here, just like Buffalo and people in this city will support the hell out of a good team. We're not another Nashville.

end rant, sorry.

edit: my fault, I understand what you're saying now. But it was mentioned previously as a city that should be contracted or moved and I thought I should quiet that notion.

[IceCap]

What about Flordia, Carolina, Atlanta, Colombus and many more teams.

Uh, Brendan? You're aware that two of these four showed a profit last year, right?

True, however the other two didn't make any money because they aren't real locations.

-E.A.R.

As the resident Columbus Blue Jackets fan and here current Columbus resident I'm going to have to step in here and say that none of you have any idea what you're talking about. You're all assuming that because this isn't Cincinnati or Cleveland that we can't support a major league franchise.

First of all Columbus is the 15th largest city in the United States (730,657) and 32 largest metro area (1,725,570). It is the largest city in Ohio which makes it a viable location for an NHL franchise. We can support a professional sports franchise and we have since 2000 without any problem.

Second of all the Blue Jackets have been one of only a handful of profitable teams in this league. They were one of eleven teams to turn a profit in the season that prompted the lockout (03-04).

They play in an unsaturated NHL market with the closest team being Pittsburgh at 185 miles, unlike your Devils who have been outdrawn by my Blue Jackets at the Box office every year the Jackets have existed. This team has finished in the top half of the league in 4 out of there 6 years despite having a crappy product on the ice and once cracked the big 10. They have never been in the bottom ten for attendance.

I just get pissed off when people like yourself say that it isn't a real location when it clearly has the corporate support, and fan support to be an asset to this league. Hell, it already is an asset to this league.

All I have to say is that now that the Jackass Doug Maclean is gone, this team finally has some hope of getting better. And when the Jackets are good, watch out, because that arena will be packed night after night. We have an inferiority complex here, just like Buffalo and people in this city will support the hell out of a good team. We're not another Nashville.

end rant, sorry.

It's a credit to the Columbus fan base that the team draws so well considering the current on-ice product. The NHL got it right with the last round of expansion (Minnesota, Columbus).

[Sodboy13]

A Blackhawks fan has no business criticizing an other team for a lack of NHL-calibre play

Heh, they sure don't. Thankfully, I'm not a Hawks fan. I gave up that ghost 12, 13 years ago. I can understand your confusion though - me being from Chicago and all. Truthfully, I haven't had a strong allegiance to an NHL teams since the Whalers up and went. I root for the Thrashers, because they're the Wolves' parent club, and I root for the Ducks, because I know a guy.

Anyway, just felt the need to clear that up, because being called a Blackhawks fan is pretty harsh as far as hockey insults go.

[IceCap]

A Blackhawks fan has no business criticizing an other team for a lack of NHL-calibre play

Heh, they sure don't. Thankfully, I'm not a Hawks fan. I gave up that ghost 12, 13 years ago. I can understand your confusion though - me being from Chicago and all. Truthfully, I haven't had a strong allegiance to an NHL teams since the Whalers up and went. I root for the Thrashers, because they're the Wolves' parent club, and I root for the Ducks, because I know a guy.

Anyway, just felt the need to clear that up, because being called a Blackhawks fan is pretty harsh as far as hockey insults go.

My deepest apologies.

[DEAD!]

It's a credit to the Columbus fan base that the team draws so well considering the current on-ice product. The NHL got it right with the last round of expansion (Minnesota, Columbus).

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the last round of expansion include Nashville and Atlanta. I thought the NHL made the announcement of all of those franchises at the same time?

http://slam.canoe.ca/97NHLExpansion/zex253.html

or is the "last-round" a "relative" term?

[IceCap]

It's a credit to the Columbus fan base that the team draws so well considering the current on-ice product. The NHL got it right with the last round of expansion (Minnesota, Columbus).

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the last round of expansion include Nashville and Atlanta. I thought the NHL made the announcement of all of those franchises at the same time?

http://slam.canoe.ca/97NHLExpansion/zex253.html

or is the "last-round" a "relative" term?

I was referring to the 2001 expansion teams.

[CC97]

It's a credit to the Columbus fan base that the team draws so well considering the current on-ice product. The NHL got it right with the last round of expansion (Minnesota, Columbus).

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the last round of expansion include Nashville and Atlanta. I thought the NHL made the announcement of all of those franchises at the same time?

http://slam.canoe.ca/97NHLExpansion/zex253.html

or is the "last-round" a "relative" term?

Mr. D! is right, all four teams (Nashville, Atlanta, Columbus, Minnesota) are all part of the same "round" of expansion... they just spaced out their inaugural seasons

[IceCap]

It's a credit to the Columbus fan base that the team draws so well considering the current on-ice product. The NHL got it right with the last round of expansion (Minnesota, Columbus).

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the last round of expansion include Nashville and Atlanta. I thought the NHL made the announcement of all of those franchises at the same time?

http://slam.canoe.ca/97NHLExpansion/zex253.html

or is the "last-round" a "relative" term?

Mr. D! is right, all four teams (Nashville, Atlanta, Columbus, Minnesota) are all part of the same "round" of expansion... they just spaced out their inaugural seasons

Really....eh, my mistake.

[tp49]

I'm fine with Long Island having a team to call its own. In fact, I wish Long Island still had the Jets and Nets. Most Jets fans are from the island anyway, aren't they?

While technically Queens is the easternmost part of Long Island, it isn't really considered Long Island. It's one of the five boroughs, and thus considered part of NYC. However, the Nets DID play out in Nassau county, which is where the Islanders have always played...

Long Island is Mets and Jets country when it comes to those two, but north jersey will yield you a lot of Jet fans as well. Yeah its more Giants, but it's not like it used to be...

(Definately still over saturated with Yankee fans though...)

Actually Queens and Brooklyn are the westernmost points on the Island. A lot of Brooklyn still follows the Yankees/Giants but it really depends on what part of either borough you're in. The rooting patterns used to be more geographic but now it's all very muddled and some like me don't follow any of the typical rooting patterns.

[broncoempire]

Take it from this former Las Vegas resident, but this is a terribly bad idea. Simply put, Vegas just isn't a major league market yet, for the NHL or any sport. It's a town that doesn't draw anyone for their wide variery of sports, whether it be the 51s, the Gladiators, or even UNLV at times. Any time there is a major event here, (Mountain West Tournament comes to mind) it struggles to fill out all the seats. Imagine trying to fill a venue 40+ times a year at 18,000 a night! Vegas residents love sports, they just love other cities' teams: Lakers, Dodgers, Padres, D'Backs, Raiders, etc.

In addition, hockey barely registers a blip out there. As someone who worked in one of the busiest sports books in town, there's about as much interest in the NHL as the WNBA. Trust me, that's one of the surest ways to gauge interest out there. The population doesn't have a whole lot of cash to throw around that doesn't wind up in the hands of MGM, Station, Boyd, and Harrah's, much less give to an NHL team. The majority of the people are in the gaming business which pay little and are heavily reliant on tips. The area itself is still quite small, registering slightly more than a million in the metro with nothing else substantial for more than three hours in every direction. Good luck trying to sell that to network executives.

The arena issue alone would also derail this. Thomas and Mack is barely adequate for a one time event (NBA All-Star) which leaves doubts about it even as a temporary venue. MGM Grand Garden is not going to work, becuase assuming all seats can be used, it seats only about 15,000 with no luxury suites or club seats of any kind. It wasn't designed for a team, it was designed for concerts and boxing where the best and worst seats are in the hundreds all the same. There is no public support to build a new arena; they can barely muster enough support to build highways. Add in issues with the gaming industry showing anything that keeps people from the machines or tables the cold shoulder, and you have next to no corporate support.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a team there eventually, just not yet. The town just isn't ready yet. If someone is going to be first out there, it's probably going to have to be an NBA team because at least they have some cache out there. The NHL will get swallowed out there and then we'll all be writing in a few years about what a horrific idea it was to put a team there.

[Puckguy14]

Well, the NHL needs to move into the Las Vegas. If they can't get a team to move there, I don't think expansion is THAT bad of an idea. Whatever sport is first into Vegas is going to make a mint...

you can't really lose having a power house like Jerry Bruckheimer in your league. I

Isn't that what the league said when getting Disney and Blockbuster in the league in 1993-94?

[njmeadowlanders]

Actually Queens and Brooklyn are the westernmost points on the Island.

Yeah, typo on my part. The easternmost point would be Montauk...

[Suigi]

Oh, and BTW there are two teams with longer Cup droughts then the Leafs. Chicago hasn't won it since '61, and if your one of those Sens fans who's in favour of linking the two pro Ottawa franchises, as our very own Loren C., I mean Fred T. is, then the Sens rank in with the longest drought of 80 years.

Let's not forget the two teams with Cupless droughts equivalent to the Maple Leafs - the Kings and Blues haven't won a Cup since their inception in 1967.

Then again, at least those two made it to the Cup Finals since then.

Sniff.

[gojetsgo]

Take it from this former Las Vegas resident, but this is a terribly bad idea. Simply put, Vegas just isn't a major league market yet, for the NHL or any sport. It's a town that doesn't draw anyone for their wide variery of sports, whether it be the 51s, the Gladiators, or even UNLV at times. Any time there is a major event here, (Mountain West Tournament comes to mind) it struggles to fill out all the seats. Imagine trying to fill a venue 40+ times a year at 18,000 a night! Vegas residents love sports, they just love other cities' teams: Lakers, Dodgers, Padres, D'Backs, Raiders, etc.

In addition, hockey barely registers a blip out there. As someone who worked in one of the busiest sports books in town, there's about as much interest in the NHL as the WNBA. Trust me, that's one of the surest ways to gauge interest out there. The population doesn't have a whole lot of cash to throw around that doesn't wind up in the hands of MGM, Station, Boyd, and Harrah's, much less give to an NHL team. The majority of the people are in the gaming business which pay little and are heavily reliant on tips. The area itself is still quite small, registering slightly more than a million in the metro with nothing else substantial for more than three hours in every direction. Good luck trying to sell that to network executives.

The arena issue alone would also derail this. Thomas and Mack is barely adequate for a one time event (NBA All-Star) which leaves doubts about it even as a temporary venue. MGM Grand Garden is not going to work, becuase assuming all seats can be used, it seats only about 15,000 with no luxury suites or club seats of any kind. It wasn't designed for a team, it was designed for concerts and boxing where the best and worst seats are in the hundreds all the same. There is no public support to build a new arena; they can barely muster enough support to build highways. Add in issues with the gaming industry showing anything that keeps people from the machines or tables the cold shoulder, and you have next to no corporate support.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a team there eventually, just not yet. The town just isn't ready yet. If someone is going to be first out there, it's probably going to have to be an NBA team because at least they have some cache out there. The NHL will get swallowed out there and then we'll all be writing in a few years about what a horrific idea it was to put a team there.

Interesting perspective. As far as arena issues, I think Las Vegas could build one quite quickly... it seems everything gets built there in no time and there seems to be alot of private funds to throw around for projects like this one.

As far as demographics and interest in hockey, I would tend to agree. Hockey might just get drowned out by everything else going on in LV. I have a feeling the NHL is going to try to put a team there despite this (possible) inevitability.