The Imperfect Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Though I am a Cleveland fan, I have good reasons why C.C. Sabathia should be the starting pitcher for the American League All-Star team, and Josh Beckett should not.First off, C.C. Sabathia is 12-2, while Josh Beckett is 10-2. C.C. has played in 18 games this season, while Beckett has played in 15. This shows that Sabathia has pitched more and has played more than Beckett (also his league leading innings pitcher, 129.1 shows this as well), and Sabathia should be rewarded for working so hard all season.Second, C.C.'s ERA is lower than Becketts. Sabathia's ERA is a solid 3.20, while Beckett's is also good, but not better than Sabathia's, at 3.38. Now you might say that Dan Haren's ERA is a very small 1.91, but keep in mind that Haren is 9-2 this season, while Sabathia is 12-2.Third, Sabathia is pitching in a harder division. If you think the East is as good as the Central division, you are wrong. Down the road, later in the season, Sabathia is going to have to be pitching his best, and win these games on his own, because Beckett and the Red Sox have a way stronger bullpin than the Indians do, giving Beckett a chance to give a few runs, but allow somebody else to come in and not give up anymore.If Beckett is voted, I won't be mad. Beckett is a good pitcher, better than Sabathia by a little, but Sabathia is having a great season, and should be rewarded for doing great. It's said that Beckett is be voted in mostly by name value and not by stats though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgd Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Both stats you referenced are poor stats to judge a pitchers skill. The pitcher doesn't have much control over wins and loses, especially in the AL because he has no control over how many runs his batters get. If a pitcher has an ERA under 1 all season, but his team is averaging 1 run the whole year, he's gonna be around .500. Would you say that pitcher isn't the best pitcher in the league just because he didn't have a winning record?ERA isn't great either, but its getting somewhere. ERA+ is a stat against the league average, with ballpark factors figured in. 100 is league average:Haren: 229CC: 136Becket: 134Look at WHIP. (walks plus hits divided by Innings pitched)Haren: .94Beckett: 1.10CC: 1.12There are many other stats taht are better than Wins and ERA. Wins alone is not reliable. No stat alone is good, its a comination of stats. And after looking at these stats I'd put Johan Santana up there as well to be considered.Sorry but Danny Haren should be the starter IMO. He's having the best year so far.I'd rank it:HarenCCBeckettSantana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddySicks Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Your correct, Beckett shouldn't start. But neither should Sabathia. Danny Haren > The rest of baseball. On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said: She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsox Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Beckett should start. He's had the most impressive first half and could be voted in as MVP of the first half IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddySicks Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Beckett should start. He's had the most impressive first half and could be voted in as MVP of the first half IMHO.Wrong. Just, wrong. Your just so ridiculously wrong it's amazing.HarenERA: 2.20K: 98ER:30IP:123BeckettERA: 3.38K: 83ER: 36IP:96 On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said: She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigga Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Damn, it's hard to know who to side with in all this.* The Indians fan goes for the Indians stud pitcherThe Cardinals fan goes for the former Cardinals farmhand The fan of every team in California goes for the A's pitcherThe Red Sox fan goes for the Red Sox pitcherGuess I will go with Haren, he seems to have more support Any Tigers and Angels fans want to chime in here?*Yes, this is all in fun. The obvious, no-brainer to everyone paying attention starter is Dan Haren. On January 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, NJTank said: Btw this is old hat for Notre Dame. Knits Rockne made up George Tip's death bed speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB61 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Don't look at me... I voted for Mark Fydritch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korkie Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 If Beckett is voted, I won't be mad. Beckett is a good pitcher, better than Sabathia by a little, but Sabathia is having a great season, and should be rewarded for doing great. It's said that Beckett is be voted in mostly by name value and not by stats though.There is no voting to decide the starting pitchers. The manager decides who is going to start. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."Dr. Kelso: My son is a big baseball fan. Not so much playing it, but more the designing and sewing of uniforms.Tyler: That's neat.Dr. Kelso: No, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shumway Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Damn, it's hard to know who to side with in all this.* The Indians fan goes for the Indians stud pitcherThe Cardinals fan goes for the former Cardinals farmhand The fan of every team in California goes for the A's pitcherThe Red Sox fan goes for the Red Sox pitcherGuess I will go with Haren, he seems to have more support Any Tigers and Angels fans want to chime in here?*Yes, this is all in fun. The obvious, no-brainer to everyone paying attention starter is Dan Haren.Ask and you shall receive, but I'm siding with Bucfan here. As much as I hate to put an Athletic on the mound, Haren's clearly better than Beckett this year. He's practically unhittable. He's no John Lackey , but he's having a better year to this point. Hopefully the last chance dealy works out and the Angels have 3 guys in the pitching staff for the game.So let's get those votes in for Kelvim, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiasco! Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 How can you not vote for this guy? LinkedIn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgd Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Damn, it's hard to know who to side with in all this.* The Indians fan goes for the Indians stud pitcherThe Cardinals fan goes for the former Cardinals farmhand The fan of every team in California goes for the A's pitcherThe Red Sox fan goes for the Red Sox pitcherGuess I will go with Haren, he seems to have more support Any Tigers and Angels fans want to chime in here?*Yes, this is all in fun. The obvious, no-brainer to everyone paying attention starter is Dan Haren.Honestly...I'd rather him not do well. Makes the Cardinals look dumber and dumber for that Mulder trade. Derrick Barton is most likely going to be the next Johnny Bench too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsox Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 My heart tells me I want Beckett to start. My mind tells me I want Haren to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAD! Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 My heart tells me I want Beckett to start. My mind tells me I want Haren to start..... you stomach tells you to get some Pepto-Bismol... I saw, I came, I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning River Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 If it were an argument between Sox fan and Tribe fan. Yes, CC over Josh.But it isn't... I would have to say Haren has been the best pitcher this first half. Sure, I'm a Tribe fan but to me it's all about the ERA. Hareon is now at 2.2. Sure CC has more wins... but if I'm not mistaking shouldn't Haren have at least two more wins? Weren't his first 2 starts great but the A's offense was putrid?It might come down to who pitches before the break. I think Haron would be scheduled to go on Friday. CC pitches Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It might come down to who pitches before the break. I think Haron would be scheduled to go on Friday. CC pitches Thursday.No help there. According to the Indians radio guys yesterday the all star game falls on what would be normally scheduled starts for both Beckett and Sabathia. If Haren goes Friday that's an extra reason for Leyland to start one of the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Alright... I'm not so much arguing for Josh Beckett as I am arguing against what statistics you guys use to judge how well a pitcher has pitched.FIP, people. Fielding Independent Pitching. No stat can perfectly sum up how well a pitcher has pitched, but FIP and FIP-ERA comes a hell of a lot closer than either ERA or W/L. What's fascinating about FIP is that if a pitcher has a low ERA and a high FIP, the ERA trends towards the FIP -- just look at Josh Beckett's season last year. As for this year, though...Josh Beckett - 3.01CC Sabathia - 3.13Dan Haren - 3.50To be honest, Haren's numbers suggest a great deal of luck. A lot of BABIP (Batting Average on Balls in Play) has to do with luck, ball park, and the defense. Haren has one of the best defenses in the League and plays in, this year, one of the best pitchers parks in the League -- Beckett has an, at best, sub-par defense behind him and plays in the League's top hitters park. Jacobs Field is also up there in Ballpark factors. But I digress... Haren's BABIP is hovering around .200 right now... that's quite a bit better than Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez in their primes (And both of those guys, in their prime, had numbers that compare favorably to any pitcher ever)... that's luck. Bottomline. Haren's numbers will regress. It's not to say that Haren hasn't improved some, but that big of a difference in BABIP does suggest luck on his part... and if that particular stat was more consistent with his career trend, which it will eventually go up this season, his ERA would be north of 3.00Obviously I'm a Red Sox fan, so I do have a bias, but I'm not just pulling random numbers out of my ass to support my case. I think ERA and W/L are the most overrated stat in determining how good a pitcher has pitched.Let C.C. start... and let's have Beckett not pitch at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 And just like that, Sabathia's ERA is higher. Also, you can argue that the Central's the better division, which it is... but there's not a bad lineup in the AL East, which is what really matters when discussing pitching stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsox Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 All hail InTheEnd88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsox Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sabathia gave up 7 ER in 4 innings. I think he might just be out of the picture now depending on how Beckett and Haren pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkJourney Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dan Haren to start game for AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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