Why isn't Wisconsin a bigger hockey state?

[illwauk]

All this hockey talk lately has gotten me to thinking how lame my home state is when it comes to hockey (considering its location). Here's what Wisconsin has to offer hockey fans:

1 AHL Team (Milwaukee)

1 NCAA-D1 Team (Wisconsin)

1 Jr. A Team (Green Bay)

...and an assload of D3 Teams

Now compare that with our neighbors to the west:

1 NHL Team (Minnesota)

5 NCAA-D1 Teams (Minnesota, St. Cloud, UMD, Mankato, Bemidji)

1 Jr. A Team (Tri Cities)

And our neighbors to the east:

1 NHL Team (Detroit)

1 AHL Team (Grand Rapids)

8 NCAA-D1 Teams (Michigan, MSU, Western, Northern, Tech, Ferris St., Wayne St. and Lake St.)

2 Jr. A Teams (Plymouth, Saginaw)

As a student at one of the UW schools not in Madison, I know how self-centered "The UW" can be. So it's not hard for me to believe they've done all they can to prevent UWM or UWGB (which both have adequate arenas) from starting a program. But I really can't understand why at least one of the private schools in Wisconsin (especially Marquette) hasn't made a run at D1 hockey. Especially since for the D3 schools, it would only require them moving up to D2 for the rest of their sports.

Also, it seems to me that Milwaukee would've been a natural candidate for one of the 1967 NHL expansion teams based on its proximity to Chicago and the Twin Cities. In fact, it seems that all of the "c/o '67" squads were placed where they were to create a natural rivalry with one of their counterparts (Phily & Pittsburgh, LA & California), yet what exactly do the Twin Cities have in common with St. Louis? Sure, they're both on the Mississippi River, but they're not really that similar geographically or culturally to be considered rivals. Were we ever considered for the c/o '67? The Bucks didn't start until that same year and the Braves had already left town (not because of a lack of fan support, but because Atlanta built a shiny new concrete donut), so I can't imagine why we wouldn't have made the ideal candidate.

Anyone have any insight?

[rams80]

All this hockey talk lately has gotten me to thinking how lame my home state is when it comes to hockey (considering its location). Here's what Wisconsin has to offer hockey fans:

1 AHL Team (Milwaukee)

1 NCAA-D1 Team (Wisconsin)

1 Jr. A Team (Green Bay)

...and an assload of D3 Teams

Now compare that with our neighbors to the west:

1 NHL Team (Minnesota)

5 NCAA-D1 Teams (Minnesota, St. Cloud, UMD, Mankato, Bemidji)

1 Jr. A Team (Tri Cities)

And our neighbors to the east:

1 NHL Team (Detroit)

1 AHL Team (Grand Rapids)

8 NCAA-D1 Teams (Michigan, MSU, Western, Northern, Tech, Ferris St., Wayne St. and Lake St.)

2 Jr. A Teams (Plymouth, Saginaw)

As a student at one of the UW schools not in Madison, I know how self-centered "The UW" can be. So it's not hard for me to believe they've done all they can to prevent UWM or UWGB (which both have adequate arenas) from starting a program. But I really can't understand why at least one of the private schools in Wisconsin (especially Marquette) hasn't made a run at D1 hockey. Especially since for the D3 schools, it would only require them moving up to D2 for the rest of their sports.

Also, it seems to me that Milwaukee would've been a natural candidate for one of the 1967 NHL expansion teams based on its proximity to Chicago and the Twin Cities. In fact, it seems that all of the "c/o '67" squads were placed where they were to create a natural rivalry with one of their counterparts (Phily & Pittsburgh, LA & California), yet what exactly do the Twin Cities have in common with St. Louis? Sure, they're both on the Mississippi River, but they're not really that similar geographically or culturally to be considered rivals. Were we ever considered for the c/o '67? The Bucks didn't start until that same year and the Braves had already left town (not because of a lack of fan support, but because Atlanta built a shiny new concrete donut), so I can't imagine why we wouldn't have made the ideal candidate.

Anyone have any insight?

Minnesota got a team because Minnesota's the hockey hotbed of the United States. Granted the North Stars historically did a poor job of cultivating a relationship with the rest of the state (compared to the Wild), but that was the rationale. From what I've seen...1) Milwaukee did not apply for a team in the 1967 expansion, 2) St. Louis was one of the last cities awarded a team and only got one because Baltimore?'s bid fell apart. Granted its been a couple of years since I last saw something about the 1967 expansion, but I seem to recall that much.

I know Milwaukee applied for at least one of the early 90s expansion teams, but I forget why they missed out then.

[-kj]

1 Jr. A Team (Tri Cities)

Actually, that team is in Kearney, Nebraska. They used to be the Twin Cities Vulcans, but moved a few years ago.

yet what exactly do the Twin Cities have in common with St. Louis? Sure, they're both on the Mississippi River, but they're not really that similar geographically or culturally to be considered rivals.

Actually, having grown up in the St. Louis area and having lived in Minneapolis for ten years, I'd say they're relatively similar these days, at least in terms of population and general metropolitan layout. I don't know that it was the same way in the 60s, nor does that really make for a rivalry.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

another state i've been curious on is Indiana. Michigan and Illinois and maybe ohio are good hockey states but it seems once you cross in to indiana hockey dies. i wonder why? besides the obvious autoracing thing.

[spyboy1]

another state i've been curious on is Indiana. Michigan and Illinois and maybe ohio are good hockey states but it seems once you cross in to indiana hockey dies. i wonder why? besides the obvious autoracing thing.

It's because Indiana is the basketball Capital of the World. They don't have time to think of anything else that time of year.

Wisconsin is a puzzler to me as well. Why on Earth Milwaukee isn't part of the NHL and Nashville and Columbus are, I'll never understand.

[lets_go_red]

The fact is Wisconsin has never been very smart with our hockey, the clubs in the state do not work well together. Madison has great hockey and so does Northern Wisconsin...but those parts of the state could not support an NHL team. The Admirals used to draw huge crowds...but their attendance is dwindling, but Milwaukee in and of itself has never been a hockey town...and there in lies the problem, the only major city in the state isn't a hockey town. Its sad cause I've always wanted an NHL team here, hopefully it will one day come, and the franchise will draw a fan base and grow hockey around Milwaukee. There have also been rumors of another USHL team coming to Wisconsin...but last I heard that is at least 2 years off. And actually Minnesota has at least 3 Jr. A teams, all in the NAHL. If Milwaukee ever gets an NHL team, I pray that Wisconsin hockey fans will show up...they are here, at the National Championship Game at the Bradley Center a few year ago, the BC was filled with red and white, and while I realize its a huge game drawing Badger fans from all over the country...most had to be from the Milwaukee-Madison Area...btw that had to have been the loudest I have ever heard it in the BC. That being said potential for the state to grow in hockey is there...we've always had great players...now it is about growing the fan base and the state hockey leaders.

[quantum]

Outside of Milwaukee, media coverage is rather poor for the sports teams we do have. Most of the state has two areas of focus: Packer season and Packer Off-season. There seems to be little room for anything else.

[no97]

But I really can't understand why at least one of the private schools in Wisconsin (especially Marquette) hasn't made a run at D1 hockey. Especially since for the D3 schools, it would only require them moving up to D2 for the rest of their sports.

Anyone have any insight?

Just an FYI, but there is currently a four year moratorium on teams moving up to Division I (even for just one sport). So even if, say, UW-Superior wanted to go D-I, they would have to wait 'til 2011 at the earliest to do so...

With that said, the schools that make the most sense to me are UW-Green Bay (what, with access to the Resch Center - plus they co-hosted the Regional with Michigan Tech a few years ago), and either Marquette or UW-Milwaukee, (with the Bradley Center) available...

Moose

[ShinyHubCaps]

I certainly find it interesting that the National Championship for NCAA Hockey (aka "The Frozen Four") and, if I recall correctly, the NCAA Skills Competition were both held in a city with no NCAA D-1 Teams. I don't know the story with UWM or Marquette, but when your city's greatest hockey tradition is MSOE, then you've got a problem.

I myself am not a hockey fan, nor do I know anyone in Racine or Kenosha who is an avid hockey fan, and that may be a problem. To say that everyone who would go to the Milwaukee NHL games are from Milwaukee would be false, just like the Bucks and Brewers get a fair share from Metro Milwaukee, and Packers get people from everywhere in Wisconsin. So even if the city of Milwaukee had enough people to support a team, things with TV markets, etc. could get complicated if they don't think that the suburbs, Metro areas, and surrounding cities and counties would be interested. When one city gets involved, it would essentially require a good portion of the surrounding locations to be at all interested for it to thrive.

Also I think FSN would want some hockey. We still get Minnesota Wild games on occasion.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Outside of Milwaukee, media coverage is rather poor for the sports teams we do have. Most of the state has two areas of focus: Packer season and Packer Off-season. There seems to be little room for anything else.

In New York our two main areas of focus is Yankees season, Yankees off-season.

In Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington the two main areas of focus is Cowboys season, Cowboys off-season.

Theres very little room for anything else in both areas.

[CJR]

From what I've seen...1) Milwaukee did not apply for a team in the 1967 expansion, 2) St. Louis was one of the last cities awarded a team and only got one because Baltimore?'s bid fell apart. Granted its been a couple of years since I last saw something about the 1967 expansion, but I seem to recall that much.

St. Louis didn't apply for a team in 1967, either. They got the team over Baltimore because Chicago's Arthur Wirtz owned St. Louis Arena at the time and knew it would be easier to sell if there was a team playing in it. Wirtz pushed for St. Louis to get the team and he had enough power to make it happen. It's somewhat similar to how Toronto and Montreal blocked Vancouver's bid so that they wouldn't have to share CBC TV money.

[DMadSport]

I know Milwaukee applied for at least one of the early 90s expansion teams, but I forget why they missed out then.

Lloyd and Jane Pettit, the owners of the Admirals, did make an expansion bid in 1990, but they pulled out of the running in October of that year.

Quote from this New York Times article:

Lloyd Pettit, who headed the Milwaukee bid, said it was ''not economically plausible'' to begin a business with a $50 million entry fee and a roster of castoffs from other teams.

''We just recognized that it was an impossible thing,'' he said, adding that a realistic entry fee would be closer to the $31.5 million purchase price of the Minnesota North Stars, who were sold last spring.

I recall there may also have been the possibility that if Milwaukee were successful, a fee would've need to have been paid to the Blackhawks; I think William Wirtz considered Milwaukee as part of the Blackhawks' territory much in the same way Toronto (and Buffalo?) consider Hamilton part of theirs.

[Viper]

Another factor no one has brought up is that Bradley Center is a 20-year-old arena, which is positively ancient by today's standards in major pro sports. Even if the NHL saw fit to award a team to Milwaukee, it would surely be on condition of a renovation or even a whole new arena, but how likely is that to happen? The only way I can see a new NHL hockey arena being built in Milwaukee is if the Potawatomi Indian tribe (who run a casino just off of downtown) somehow gets involved with the arena and/or team.

[zig]

Outside of Milwaukee, media coverage is rather poor for the sports teams we do have. Most of the state has two areas of focus: Packer season and Packer Off-season. There seems to be little room for anything else.

In New York our two main areas of focus is Yankees season, Yankees off-season.

I have to disagree with this. I think in NYC we get fair coverage of all of the teams. It also depends on how you look at it and what media sources are you watching/reading. YES network would obviously have lots of Yankees coverage. SNY has more Mets and Jets coverage. FSNY and MSG seem to have more Rangers/Devils/Islanders coverage than any other channel. I guess the Knicks are included as well as part as MSG but I don't really pay attention to basketball so I'm not really the person to ask about the Knicks coverage.

[-Helix-]

another state i've been curious on is Indiana. Michigan and Illinois and maybe ohio are good hockey states but it seems once you cross in to indiana hockey dies. i wonder why? besides the obvious autoracing thing.

Wisconsin is a puzzler to me as well. Why on Earth Milwaukee isn't part of the NHL and Nashville and Columbus are, I'll never understand.

This thread doesnt help you understand? Wisconsin probably isn't anymore of a hockey state than Tennessee and Ohio is definitely more of a hockey state.

Though the reason I always heard was that the owner of the Bucks didn't want an NHL team to compete with in his arena. I'm not sure if theres any truth to that or not. Not to mention the Admirals have horrible support. I remember when they were in the Calder Cup finals and there were like 10 people in the stands. That's not a very good case to get yourself an NHL team.

[zer0dotcom]

Maybe some sports just aren't popular enough to grow in certain areas of the continent. Basketball didn't work in Vancouver, College Sports are near invisible in Canada, and football just never was able to root itself in Los Angeles. You can't have every sport extremely popular in every part of the continent

[winghaz]

Now compare that with our neighbors to the west:

1 NHL Team (Minnesota)

5 NCAA-D1 Teams (Minnesota, St. Cloud, UMD, Mankato, Bemidji)

1 Jr. A Team (Tri Cities)

For the record, don't forget all the Division III teams in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. You know, the ones with the clever names -- the Johnnies, the Tommies, the Oles, the Auggies, etc.

But I'm confused about the Tri-Cities Junior A team. Isn't Tri-Cities in Washington state? And I know Minnesota has a couple of USHL teams in Alexandria and Southern Minnesota.

But I do agree with you. I always thought Milwaukee would be a great place for an NHL team. I don't know the reason there isn't one. It sure would be a great rival for Minnesota, Chicago and Detroit.

[-kj]

I answered the Tri-Cities thing earlier. The Twin Cities Vulcans used to play in the USHL, but moved to Kearney, Nebraska, and became the Tri-City Storm.

There are currently no USHL teams in Minnesota.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Outside of Milwaukee, media coverage is rather poor for the sports teams we do have. Most of the state has two areas of focus: Packer season and Packer Off-season. There seems to be little room for anything else.

In New York our two main areas of focus is Yankees season, Yankees off-season.

I have to disagree with this. I think in NYC we get fair coverage of all of the teams. It also depends on how you look at it and what media sources are you watching/reading. YES network would obviously have lots of Yankees coverage. SNY has more Mets and Jets coverage. FSNY and MSG seem to have more Rangers/Devils/Islanders coverage than any other channel. I guess the Knicks are included as well as part as MSG but I don't really pay attention to basketball so I'm not really the person to ask about the Knicks coverage.

i was mainly referring to the local news and not the sports channels which i rarely watch. maybe its a since of perception since everytime i turn on the news for the sports coverage, its usually yankee coverage.

[Discrim]

it's sad when I think about what the Admirals used to be, as mentioned before back in their IHL days they pulled in better crowds than they do now. I've only ever met three guys here in Racine who can even tell the difference between Joe Sakic and Joe Blow, and that's only cus we went to the same high school. And the fact that there's no rink here (though some say there is one, just nobody knows where the hell it is) doesn't help. Shoot, I remember they tried roller hockey one summer, that team's been long gone. basically, my hometown is where hockey goes to die, which is a damn shame. Milwaukee, it merely gets ignored unless you bring Bucky with you and get to scream "sieve! sieve! sieve!"