NHL Winter Classic update

[CC97]

Pfffft, you're all Leaf fans. Leaf fans != hockey fans...btw, you spelled "idiots" wrong

sour grapes, leaf nation, sour grapes.

And to think I supported your gift exchange idea

[Neon_Matrix]

Im not denying the possibility the draft was fixed, but, seriously, if the NHL were to stoop that low wouldnt we notice some other more shady things? *forgets about them allowing RBK's uniformageddon*

Do me a favour, pick up the book "Deceptions and Doublecross: How the NHL Conquered Hockey." If you want to see the kind of shady things the NHL and its predecessor, the NHA did in the past... you'd see a draft fixing isn't so farfetched an idea. While you may say "that happened over 80 years ago, it doesn't mean a thing" just look at the whole Alan Eagleson debacle and the NHLs dealings with the WHA situation and even the most recent CBA fued. It doesn't have a reputation for being honest, thats for sure. It has only been through retrospect that many events that happened in this book were uncovered as being shady and underhanded...

[letterform]

Blackhawks v Red Wings at Comerica Park or Solider Field.

Nuh uh! Blackhawks vs. Red Wings @ Michigan Stadium!

Also, Scott Burnside can suck my left...over Christmas turkey!

That will never happen first off Wings owner Mike Illitch owns Comerica Park and all of the surrounding parking lots, bars and restaurants, so he would make a killing from all of that stuff, and the University of Michigan would most likely have a Michigan v Michigan State game if they ever did a game at Michigan Stadium.

I think I read this somewhere a while ago (don't remember where or when), but rumor around here is that they are trying to do Cold War II (UM vs. MSU), and a Red Wings-Maple Leafs game, in a doubleheader. If someone else can confirm this, that'd be great.

Here you go:

Possible Doubleheader at Ford Field

A huge crowd would be neat, but its not the same as out doors.

A huge crowd for hockey sucks. The sight lines for hockey in 80,000 seat Football stadiums are terrible. This wouldn't be the first time they held hockey indoors in a football stadium so what would be the point other than to gouge Leaf fans full price for crappy seats? The spectacle is having the game outdoors not the huge crowd. Heck, if they really want a spectacle they should put up twenty thousand bleacher seats in Banff and let wildlife mingle on the sidelines.

[letterform]

forgive me for "Crosby hating" but i do, its in my nature, im a Caps fan, however did that game seem a bit...scripted to anyone else? a great game, ended by the abomination that is gary buttmans love child the shootout, by the player that the league is wrapping itself around. that just seems...too perfectly wrapped up in a bow with the highest rated regular season game in a long time (if not ever i believe). just seems..too perfect if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure they measure ratings throughout the entire game. Honestly, do you think the ratings would not have been the same if Buffalo had scored in OT or won the shootout? It ended the way it did because that's the way it ended. No one game is going to bring the NHL to prominence. If it could, they would have done it a lot sooner.

Now what's this you say about Neil Armstrong walking in a warehouse, the government being responsible for JFK and 9/11 and there being a monster in Loch Ness?

yeah i know im a bit of a conspiracy theorist...i just thought it was a bit much of a coincidence. i mean the ratings wouldve been the same, but the ending just seemed...fishy to me.

The draft which resulted in him winding up in Pittsburgh is the fishiest of them all...

You're not alone with that thinking.................If the NHL was on the up and up they would have actually broadcast the lottery live instead of drawing the selections secretly in a back room and announcing the draft positions in reverse order hours later.

The odds of Pittsburgh winning the lottery again after drafting 1st and 2nd overall the two previous drafts is too high. It doesn't add up statistically.

[OMMF]

Way late on this and don't really want to interrupt the "discussion" being had by Pittsburgh detractors and supporters, but I am curious about something I saw during the game. I remember the ads saying that RDS was going to broadcast the game along with NBC and CBC and yet there were only 2 commentary tables, that I saw, next to the ice. Did RDS just use a feed and provide commentary from off-site or were they given a less-than-ideal broadcast position?

[Lee.]

Pfffft, you're all Leaf fans. Leaf fans != hockey fans...btw, you spelled "idiots" wrong

sour grapes, leaf nation, sour grapes.

And to think I supported your gift exchange idea

Further proof that you'll back anything, provided it's wrapped in pretty enough paper.

[Luigi74]

forgive me for "Crosby hating" but i do, its in my nature, im a Caps fan, however did that game seem a bit...scripted to anyone else? a great game, ended by the abomination that is gary buttmans love child the shootout, by the player that the league is wrapping itself around. that just seems...too perfectly wrapped up in a bow with the highest rated regular season game in a long time (if not ever i believe). just seems..too perfect if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure they measure ratings throughout the entire game. Honestly, do you think the ratings would not have been the same if Buffalo had scored in OT or won the shootout? It ended the way it did because that's the way it ended. No one game is going to bring the NHL to prominence. If it could, they would have done it a lot sooner.

Now what's this you say about Neil Armstrong walking in a warehouse, the government being responsible for JFK and 9/11 and there being a monster in Loch Ness?

yeah i know im a bit of a conspiracy theorist...i just thought it was a bit much of a coincidence. i mean the ratings wouldve been the same, but the ending just seemed...fishy to me.

The draft which resulted in him winding up in Pittsburgh is the fishiest of them all...

You're not alone with that thinking.................If the NHL was on the up and up they would have actually broadcast the lottery live instead of drawing the selections secretly in a back room and announcing the draft positions in reverse order hours later.

The odds of Pittsburgh winning the lottery again after drafting 1st and 2nd overall the two previous drafts is too high. It doesn't add up statistically.

Pittsburgh had the same odds as Buffalo, Columbus and the NY Rangers in that lottery since all four teams had three balls in the hopper, then 10 teams had two balls and the rest had one. The reason it was done earlier and then broadcast later is the same reason the NBA does it that way, they have to remove ping pong balls from the hopper after every draw and they want to make a big long out tv production for the announcement. Of the four teams with three balls in the hopper all could have used Crosby and the same b.s. about the lottery being fixed would be tossed around.

[Neon_Matrix]

forgive me for "Crosby hating" but i do, its in my nature, im a Caps fan, however did that game seem a bit...scripted to anyone else? a great game, ended by the abomination that is gary buttmans love child the shootout, by the player that the league is wrapping itself around. that just seems...too perfectly wrapped up in a bow with the highest rated regular season game in a long time (if not ever i believe). just seems..too perfect if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure they measure ratings throughout the entire game. Honestly, do you think the ratings would not have been the same if Buffalo had scored in OT or won the shootout? It ended the way it did because that's the way it ended. No one game is going to bring the NHL to prominence. If it could, they would have done it a lot sooner.

Now what's this you say about Neil Armstrong walking in a warehouse, the government being responsible for JFK and 9/11 and there being a monster in Loch Ness?

yeah i know im a bit of a conspiracy theorist...i just thought it was a bit much of a coincidence. i mean the ratings wouldve been the same, but the ending just seemed...fishy to me.

The draft which resulted in him winding up in Pittsburgh is the fishiest of them all...

You're not alone with that thinking.................If the NHL was on the up and up they would have actually broadcast the lottery live instead of drawing the selections secretly in a back room and announcing the draft positions in reverse order hours later.

The odds of Pittsburgh winning the lottery again after drafting 1st and 2nd overall the two previous drafts is too high. It doesn't add up statistically.

Pittsburgh had the same odds as Buffalo, Columbus and the NY Rangers in that lottery since all four teams had three balls in the hopper, then 10 teams had two balls and the rest had one. The reason it was done earlier and then broadcast later is the same reason the NBA does it that way, they have to remove ping pong balls from the hopper after every draw and they want to make a big long out tv production for the announcement. Of the four teams with three balls in the hopper all could have used Crosby and the same b.s. about the lottery being fixed would be tossed around.

Unlike Buffalo, Columbus and the Rangers, the Penguins had no future home. The Rangers still had support, Buffalo was rebuilding and Columbus... well... did anyone really expect a hockey team to survive there? It just seems so odd that the team most in need wound up with the most sought after player who would help them not only win back the fans but also win them a new home.

[hormone]

I haven't clicked on this topic since the winter classic (which I'm against having again). I'm wondering why do people think the NHL is fixed? So what that the Pens landed the lottery. What are the odds that a team in today's NFL going 16-0? What are the odds of someone hitting the powerball? Well, guess what? It happens! If the Penguins were the darlings of the NHL, why, instead of helping them so much, did they make a schedule with them/without them/in another city? They would have stepped right in and said they weren't going anywhere. We had to watch them until the final hour to see if there was going to be a team.

I've also read how the classic was "scripted" because the NHL's darling Crosby got the winner in OT. Maybe Crosby got the winner in OT because he's...good? Money drives sports. If they were to fix things, they will fix things in LA, NY, and other big cities that drive revenues, tourism, big stadiums, etc. They wouldn't do it for crappy Pittsburgh.

When Pittsburgh wins another two (or more) cups in a row, signs ALL of their stars under the cap, gets EVERY call, then start saying they are getting some special treatment. Until then, they are just a young team who is exciting to watch and trying to get to a higher level.

The NHL isn't racking up ratings, so they are promoting young stars/teams. Look on ESPN. The NHL is listed somewhere after women's international ping pong and stuff like that. If they ever want to get on top again, they have to promote the Crosby's, Ovekchin's (sp), etc that make the game interesting again.

[Gothamite]

I've also read how the classic was "scripted" because the NHL's darling Crosby got the winner in OT. Maybe Crosby got the winner in OT because he's...good? Money drives sports. If they were to fix things, they will fix things in LA, NY, and other big cities that drive revenues, tourism, big stadiums, etc. They wouldn't do it for crappy Pittsburgh.

I'd tend to agree. If the NHL was interested in fixing anything to improve a team, they'd go for one of the big markets.

[maz]

I haven't clicked on this topic since the winter classic (which I'm against having again). I'm wondering why do people think the NHL is fixed? So what that the Pens landed the lottery. What are the odds that a team in today's NFL going 16-0? What are the odds of someone hitting the powerball? Well, guess what? It happens! If the Penguins were the darlings of the NHL, why, instead of helping them so much, did they make a schedule with them/without them/in another city? They would have stepped right in and said they weren't going anywhere. We had to watch them until the final hour to see if there was going to be a team.

I've also read how the classic was "scripted" because the NHL's darling Crosby got the winner in OT. Maybe Crosby got the winner in OT because he's...good? Money drives sports. If they were to fix things, they will fix things in LA, NY, and other big cities that drive revenues, tourism, big stadiums, etc. They wouldn't do it for crappy Pittsburgh.

When Pittsburgh wins another two (or more) cups in a row, signs ALL of their stars under the cap, gets EVERY call, then start saying they are getting some special treatment. Until then, they are just a young team who is exciting to watch and trying to get to a higher level.

The NHL isn't racking up ratings, so they are promoting young stars/teams. Look on ESPN. The NHL is listed somewhere after women's international ping pong and stuff like that. If they ever want to get on top again, they have to promote the Crosby's, Ovekchin's (sp), etc that make the game interesting again.

Amen.....well, except for the anti-winter classic and crappy pittsburgh part

[Neon_Matrix]

I haven't clicked on this topic since the winter classic (which I'm against having again). I'm wondering why do people think the NHL is fixed? So what that the Pens landed the lottery. What are the odds that a team in today's NFL going 16-0? What are the odds of someone hitting the powerball? Well, guess what? It happens! If the Penguins were the darlings of the NHL, why, instead of helping them so much, did they make a schedule with them/without them/in another city? They would have stepped right in and said they weren't going anywhere. We had to watch them until the final hour to see if there was going to be a team.

The NHL did try to help them, but they can't go out there and focus a lot of their time and energy on saving a franchise when they have other issues to worry about. They did try to make sure Balsillie signed a deal that would force him to keep the team in Pittsburgh, or so the rumour goes. They did what they could to try and make sure that team didn't up and go to another city, specifically a "small" Canadian market. I'm sure if Las Vegas was vocal about getting a team, the NHL would have had no problem selling it to whoever wanted it as long as it was moved there. Hell, I'm sure even Kansas City would have been a popular destination. There is only so much the League could have done and they did not ignore the issue as they had said the team wont move, it was the owners of the franchise who voiced the opinoin they didn't care what happened to it as long as it was off their hands.

[letterform]

forgive me for "Crosby hating" but i do, its in my nature, im a Caps fan, however did that game seem a bit...scripted to anyone else? a great game, ended by the abomination that is gary buttmans love child the shootout, by the player that the league is wrapping itself around. that just seems...too perfectly wrapped up in a bow with the highest rated regular season game in a long time (if not ever i believe). just seems..too perfect if you ask me.

I'm pretty sure they measure ratings throughout the entire game. Honestly, do you think the ratings would not have been the same if Buffalo had scored in OT or won the shootout? It ended the way it did because that's the way it ended. No one game is going to bring the NHL to prominence. If it could, they would have done it a lot sooner.

Now what's this you say about Neil Armstrong walking in a warehouse, the government being responsible for JFK and 9/11 and there being a monster in Loch Ness?

yeah i know im a bit of a conspiracy theorist...i just thought it was a bit much of a coincidence. i mean the ratings wouldve been the same, but the ending just seemed...fishy to me.

The draft which resulted in him winding up in Pittsburgh is the fishiest of them all...

You're not alone with that thinking.................If the NHL was on the up and up they would have actually broadcast the lottery live instead of drawing the selections secretly in a back room and announcing the draft positions in reverse order hours later.

The odds of Pittsburgh winning the lottery again after drafting 1st and 2nd overall the two previous drafts is too high. It doesn't add up statistically.

Pittsburgh had the same odds as Buffalo, Columbus and the NY Rangers in that lottery since all four teams had three balls in the hopper, then 10 teams had two balls and the rest had one. The reason it was done earlier and then broadcast later is the same reason the NBA does it that way, they have to remove ping pong balls from the hopper after every draw and they want to make a big long out tv production for the announcement. Of the four teams with three balls in the hopper all could have used Crosby and the same b.s. about the lottery being fixed would be tossed around.

No, I'm talking about the cumulative odds of winning the draft lottery, second overall, AND the Crosby Sweepstakes in successive years. It's highly unlikely that any team would be that lucky in successive drafts - especially with only a minuscule 6% chance in the Crosby sweepstakes. As far as people crying foul if Buffalo or Columbus won it? Ummm I don't think so. The Rangers winning it would have made people suspicious, but not those teams.

As far as the league "needing to remove balls from the hopper after each draw" that's absolute BS. The lottery machines do not need to have balls removed in order to run. They could have simply discarded or ignored balls from teams that had already won as they were drawn. The league however, didn't intend to broadcast any of the lottery proceedings, and only showed a trumped up "envelope" show after the Canadian media cried fowl.

[Andy]

So, the draft was fixed. Why hasn't one of the other teams GMs spoken up about it yet? You all realize that for a fix to be in, every single team in the league would have to know about it and have kept quiet about it up until this point. You're really sure every team willingly passed up the opportunity to have Sidney Crosby on their team so the Penguins would have a SLIGHTLY better chance of staying in Pittsburgh? Really? Honestly?

If so, I just want to thank every single person who was in on it right now. I'm so happy to know the NHL has the most selfless team owners and general managers in any North American sports league.

[KCScout76]

Off subject that you all are on - I've been away a bit, so I want to add my two cents worth.

I enjoyed the game immensely!! Wow, how exciting. It was a good game (better than the some of the bowl games).

I enjoyed the whole concept - I can't venture to say when they will do it again, but it would be great that it be soon and

not wait another five years. Let's put it up in Toronto and have them play the Habs as part of Montreal's 100th Season

tour. What a great place to have the game - Toronto!!! Yea, the Canadians played in the other outdoor game. But do you

really want them to send Dallas or Phoenix up there.

Anyway - I loved it. They need to do it every other year. with Canada and the upper U.S. cities hosting it - I'd vote for Minnesota for the next U.S. city!!!

[letterform]

So, the draft was fixed. Why hasn't one of the other teams GMs spoken up about it yet? You all realize that for a fix to be in, every single team in the league would have to know about it and have kept quiet about it up until this point. You're really sure every team willingly passed up the opportunity to have Sidney Crosby on their team so the Penguins would have a SLIGHTLY better chance of staying in Pittsburgh? Really? Honestly?

If so, I just want to thank every single person who was in on it right now. I'm so happy to know the NHL has the most selfless team owners and general managers in any North American sports league.

You're not thinking logically at all. For a fix to be in NOT A SINGLE TEAM would have to be in on it! If the mob can fix something as complicated as sporting matches without anyone knowing, do you not think the NHL couldn't fix the unobserved drawing of a little ball behind closed doors? I hate to break this to people, but shady things sometimes happen when power and big money are involved. The idea that every team would have to be in is a total fantasy. It's as ridiculous as saying that EVERY member of the govt would have to be involved for any conspiracy to take place. A fix would require two people at the very least: Bettman and whoever he hired to observe the machine. It could also involve others who are totally unaware of their participation or those who have been compromised or manipulated.

The Pens were far too lucky, the drawing was unobserved, and the award just happened cure the NHL's most problematic franchise. Believe what ever you want, but my eyes are open. BTW the NHL put the NIX in for Rory at the All Star game. That can be proven.

[Panthers]

I'm sorry to say hat the NHL and Reebok are both slightly out of touch with fans. The NHL store that opened on Sixth Avenue in NYC barely has 1/2 the merchandise the NBA store does a scant 10 blocks away (a 10 mnute walk). One of my firends and I co-own a Gretzky all-star jersey from the 1990 game in Edmonton. Its real, and it comes with the CCM authentification plaque. Well, its been sitting around and I said to him "we should offer it to the NHL store for display purposes around all-star time". He said "ask them if they want to display it over Christmas". The thinking was, that while it was part of a collection, it should be enjoyed by people who came to the store. One of the first things one of clerks pointed out was that they had heritage items for display only. So, I brought the jersey to the store so the staff could see that it was the real thing. I told all the store managers - those who would be dealing with higher-ups that we wanted nothing for display of the jersey. No money, no recognition, nothing. We simply wanted people to enjoy the jersey. Well the store never bothered to call me. I went in to the store four times to try and get an answer. Finally, I emailed the storem and the email made it to Reebok and someone called me. I returned his phone call but it took another email to get this guy on the phone again. Sure it was the holidays, but no one bothered to return my calls. Finally, the same guy returned my call and said "we don't have any items for display in the store . . . that's not what we're about . . . all people would want to do is buy the jersey . . ." Um, yeah. ok. Do I want to buy the old goalie equipment being displayed too?

Just sheer stupidity in my opinion. Now you know why I will never walk in that store again nor go to an NHL game? Oh yes, as a quick note, I know what Reebok is about. Poorly designed products at high costs that thrill no one and is no where near the money they charge.

[Andy]

You're not thinking logically at all. For a fix to be in NOT A SINGLE TEAM would have to be in on it! If the mob can fix something as complicated as sporting matches without anyone knowing, do you not think the NHL couldn't fix the unobserved drawing of a little ball behind closed doors? I hate to break this to people, but shady things sometimes happen when power and big money are involved. The idea that every team would have to be in is a total fantasy. It's as ridiculous as saying that EVERY member of the govt would have to be involved for any conspiracy to take place. A fix would require two people at the very least: Bettman and whoever he hired to observe the machine. It could also involve others who are totally unaware of their participation or those who have been compromised or manipulated.

The Pens were far too lucky, the drawing was unobserved, and the award just happened cure the NHL's most problematic franchise. Believe what ever you want, but my eyes are open. BTW the NHL put the NIX in for Rory at the All Star game. That can be proven.

So do you have any facts to support your theory, other than "the odds were against it?" Just wondering, since no one's ever convinced me something was fixed because the outcome of something seemed "lucky."

This isn't professional wrestling. If a real "fix" were in, it would take more than one or two men to orchestrate it. Unless you think the owners and GMs of the other teams are dumb enough to not question the integrity of a "fishy lottery."

I have a feeling no matter how much I argue with you, it's not going to change your mind. That's fine. I understand people need conspiracy theories and the like to make things (even sports!) more interesting. It's unfortunate that the reality of the situation gets lost and people look silly vehemently defending such ridiculous stories.

[philly97flyer]

Doesnt each team send a representative to witness the lottery? Or at least thats what they tell us.

[Gothamite]

That was my understanding as well. If true, then yes. Every team would have to be in on it.