Wow, the Lerners Really Hate the Nats' DC Logo

[Sodboy13]

Was there ever any thought that the team would be called "DC ________"?

Only by certain banned board members insistent upon selling their half-assed concepts outside the stadium.

[STL FANATIC]

That's why, ultimately, I am not persuaded by arguments for "fixing" the Nats uniforms. The current uniforms look like Washington. Gotham's change to the numbers may or may not better integrate the cap with the jersey, but the change would come at the cost of making the uniforms less natural fits with the aesthetics of the city.

Unfortunately, something has to change. Either the cap logos or the numbers. And I don't see them abandoning the W, since they went to such lengths to keep it (and, as noted, to promote it around the park).

Not so though.

To make the design perfect, sure, something needs to change.

Or...

You just have to keep the same imperfect uniform for 50 years and win in it.

One way or another you find perfection.

Just ask the Yankees. (In addition to their stupid non-matching NYs, seriously, what is wrong with their road script? Worst block font ever.)

[BrySmalls]

Why can't we just add some gold trim around the W on the hat and call it a day? Gold is apparent on the uniform lettering, the interlocking DC logo and the ill-conceived Established 1905 logo. Problem solved?

[Epiphanic]

What if the curly-W was beveled? The fact that it's curly might not lend itself well to beveling, but perhaps that would provide a link to the rest of the look.

[Gothamite]

That's why, ultimately, I am not persuaded by arguments for "fixing" the Nats uniforms. The current uniforms look like Washington. Gotham's change to the numbers may or may not better integrate the cap with the jersey, but the change would come at the cost of making the uniforms less natural fits with the aesthetics of the city.

Unfortunately, something has to change. Either the cap logos or the numbers. And I don't see them abandoning the W, since they went to such lengths to keep it (and, as noted, to promote it around the park).

Not so though.

To make the design perfect, sure, something needs to change.

Or...

You just have to keep the same imperfect uniform for 50 years and win in it.

One way or another you find perfection.

Just ask the Yankees. (In addition to their stupid non-matching NYs, seriously, what is wrong with their road script? Worst block font ever.)

Can't agree, for all the reasons listed above. We're talking about a single discordant note in an over-designed package, not a generally quirky combination of differing elements.

Besides, the Tigers haven't exactly been a dominant franchise lately, and their non-matching logos work as well.

[Gothamite]

What if the curly-W was beveled? The fact that it's curly might not lend itself well to beveling, but perhaps that would provide a link to the rest of the look.

I think that would look horrible.

And it still wouldn't fix the problem - the Nats' scheme is all about right angles and straight lines. The curvy pretzel will never fit in.

[andrewharrington]

What if the curly-W was beveled? The fact that it's curly might not lend itself well to beveling, but perhaps that would provide a link to the rest of the look.

I think that would look horrible.

And it still wouldn't fix the problem - the Nats' scheme is all about right angles and straight lines. The curvy pretzel will never fit in.

That's why it works for me. The contrast calls attention to the W. It gives the uniform some much-needed tension, since it is so over designed in the other areas. Perfect? No, but it works in a unique and unexpected way.

[BallWonk]

What if the curly-W was beveled? The fact that it's curly might not lend itself well to beveling, but perhaps that would provide a link to the rest of the look.

I think that would look horrible.

And it still wouldn't fix the problem - the Nats' scheme is all about right angles and straight lines. The curvy pretzel will never fit in.

That's why it works for me. The contrast calls attention to the W. It gives the uniform some much-needed tension, since it is so over designed in the other areas. Perfect? No, but it works in a unique and unexpected way.

That perfectly expresses my till-now inchoate thoughts on the matter. The whole thing would work better with the gold-beveled block W that Todd Radom designed in 2005, but the whimsical curly W hits an interesting note that does work with the rest of the uniform. It's like the C string on a ukulele.

And introducing a whole new discordant note of numbers that clash with both the cap logo and the jersey script just is not the solution. That's the thing about these uniforms. I've tried all kinds of tweaks that keep the curly W, and they're always worse than what the Nats have now. There's a certain aesthetic "zugzwang" at work here, where whatever the demerits of the uniform, any incremental change would be a downgrade.

[DrBear]

Not only the trashbaskets have the curly W on them. Note the bike racks:

[Gothamite]

What if the curly-W was beveled? The fact that it's curly might not lend itself well to beveling, but perhaps that would provide a link to the rest of the look.

I think that would look horrible.

And it still wouldn't fix the problem - the Nats' scheme is all about right angles and straight lines. The curvy pretzel will never fit in.

That's why it works for me. The contrast calls attention to the W. It gives the uniform some much-needed tension, since it is so over designed in the other areas. Perfect? No, but it works in a unique and unexpected way.

Just don't agree. That tension here is a design flaw.

Sometimes, it can work. Here? Nope. Can't save the uniforms from being over-designed, merely calling attention to the set's problems.

[BBTV]

Ironic, perhaps, since there is no city of Washington here. The city itself is the District of Columbia; there is no legal entity called Washington. It's essentially a postal fiction, a customary practice, rather than an actual entity.

Are you certain about that?

[daschuck77]

For anyone who was still hoping that the Nats curly-W logo might one day be replaced, you can surrender now. Ain't gonna happen.

When a team puts a four-story neon logo on its scoreboard like the Nats' curly-W clock, well, that can be changed. But when a team puts its logo on every piece of cast and wrought iron in a ballpark with lots of iron, that logo is not going anywhere.

How much do the team-owning Lerners and team president Stan Kasten hate the Nats' DC logo? Let me count the ways:

1. The Nats wore spring training / BP jerseys for their exhibition Saturday, not their red DC-emblazoned alts.

2. In the two ballpark team shops I visited Sunday night, the DC-logo alt caps were not for sale.

3. If you order online or visit a regular sporting-goods store, the Nats have two Majestic thermabase fleece undershirts, in red and blue, both with the DC logo. In the team shops, these thermabase fleece undershirts have the curly-W logo.

4. Last year, at RFK, the team store featured the DC logo on a number of t-shirts and sweatshirts. In a quick survey of the team stores at Nationals Park, I saw no such DC logo merchandise.

5. In fact, the only DC logo I saw on any official team material anywhere in the park was on the unchanged-from-last-year left sleeve patches on the players' uniforms.

(The only counterexample from the store was the red alt shirts, which were available for sale.)

Anyway, given the lengths to which ownership has gone to minimize the presence of the DC logo on merchandise at the team store, I will be very surprised if the DC logo remains on the team's shoulder patches or alt jerseys next year.

I don't think it's a popular look at all...I live in Southern VA and all I see stuck on the shelves in stores like TJ Maxx and Marshalls are those DC batting jerseys...a ton of them. I think you're right and it will be phased out and they will have to eat all that overstock they have or give the crap away.

[JQK]

Ironic, perhaps, since there is no city of Washington here. The city itself is the District of Columbia; there is no legal entity called Washington. It's essentially a postal fiction, a customary practice, rather than an actual entity.

Are you certain about that?

I always knew it to be the city of Washington, in the District of Columbia.

Damn the educational system. Liars.

[Brian in Boston]

The Yankees. They have three different fonts on both their home and road uniforms... the various styles compliment each other very well.

The Tigers are another example... the balance just works.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

My primary problem with both franchises is their unwillingness to match the fonts of their signature design elements - their respective city initials - from application to application. There is no excuse for the cap logos to be rendered in a different style - no matter how slight - from the jersey logos. Said mismatches on the part of the Yankees and Tigers don't strike me as "complimentary", "balanced" or "charming". In my honest opinion, they come across as glaringly lazy and uninspired. Any other variations in font or style beyond those are just "icing on the cake" as far as I'm concerned.

[leopard88]

Ironic, perhaps, since there is no city of Washington here. The city itself is the District of Columbia; there is no legal entity called Washington. It's essentially a postal fiction, a customary practice, rather than an actual entity.

Are you certain about that?

I always knew it to be the city of Washington, in the District of Columbia.

Damn the educational system. Liars.

The federal government seems to support the version foisted upon you by our educational system.

That map is from a search of the U.S. Board on Geographic Names database. They seem to believe there is a place named Washington, even if it is not a legal entity.

For the record, I live in an unincorporated town. In theory, it exists solely as the name of a postal zone (which is also the case with every other town in my county, since they are also unincorporated). I don't think anyone is going to stop using the name since there is no muncipal corporation bearing the name of the town.

[Lee.]

I don't think it's a popular look at all...I live in Southern VA and all I see stuck on the shelves in stores like TJ Maxx and Marshalls are those DC batting jerseys...a ton of them. I think you're right and it will be phased out and they will have to eat all that overstock they have or give the crap away.

If there's a XXL, I"ll gladly pay for shipping to Vancouver

[Brian in Boston]

The irony surrounding the discussions about whether the so-called "traditional", "curly" W meshes adequately with the Nationals' new beveled block letter and number-forms is the fact that the aforementioned W was only used by the Senators for 9 seasons. In point of fact, a block W adorned Washington Senators caps for 46 seasons.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that it can be argued the Nationals would currently sport a more "traditional" - and integrated - look if Todd Radom had been charged with designing a block W in beveled style to adorn the team's caps.

[Gothamite]

The irony surrounding the discussions about whether the so-called "traditional", "curly" W meshes adequately with the Nationals' new beveled block letter and number-forms is the fact that the aforementioned W was only used by the Senators for 9 seasons. In point of fact, a block W adorned Washington Senators caps for 46 seasons.

Good point.

And that's exactly what the Senators should be using. It could be incorporated into the Nat's overwhelming design scheme with no problem.

Heck, if nothing else, use the "W" from their sleeve patch.

[Survival79]

The whole thing would work better with the gold-beveled block W that Todd Radom designed in 2005

This one?

[tajmccall]

To my estimation, and draw your own conclusions and have your own caveats, but the following teams have wordmarks and hats that don't have similar flow.

LA Dodgers. Great look, of course one's not beveled so its a lot more subtle but Block LA vs. classic Dodger script. Its a tough argument to say those, on an objective level technically flow. Most would agree it works beautifully- but using the logic many are with the Nationals, they are different. (Note, Mr. Baseball's Dragon team in Japan flowed...but i'll take the block LA)

Arizona Diamondbacks- The A is obviously for the old set, and the Snake D was redesigned, but still stands on its own to me. Its just that its so new, its easy to lump them together. But if you want to get technical on a nerd level I'm not sure they technically flow like most others.

Minnesota Twins-The Twins are Ironic because their homes did match the M hat, but they wear the M with Away that features the standard Block lettering and the TC hat with the newer word mark. Again I think it fits in a certain way, but underlines the fact that these hats seem to be for nostalgia sake more than design sense. But I doubt anyone would argue such an obvious point.

Ultimately I think the logo on a baseball hat is to be treated as its own mark, despite only three of them being actual marks (Houston, Cleveland, Baltimore) So if it stands by itself a bit it gets a pass in my eyes, and I think the loop W is DC baseball. Thats the instant coorelation I get.

Bottom line, it also unites the old guard Senators fans with the new Nationals franchise. I think it makes for an acceptable bridge.