The ties are now cut

[Mac the Knife]

After 33 years of faithful fandom, I hereby sever any and all ties I may have, emotional or otherwise, to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Having grown up with the team during the mid- and late 1970's I exhalted at their exploits, culminating with that 1979 "We Are Family" championship. In the 1980's I stayed excited about the team during every season, even that 1985 disaster (I actually sat through 14 games at Three Rivers that season - every one of them a loss). In the early 1990's I once again got excited over the team, despite the presence of that ***hole Barry Bonds, only to have my dreams of a return to the World Series dashed not once, not twice, but three times in a row. Since then I've put up with losing year after year, clueless ownership and management, and a 16-year rebuilding program; despite moving to North Carolina in 1994 I still managed to go to 3-4 Bucs home games each year. I've even gone so far as to schedule a vacation around paying my respects at Willie Stargell's gravesite when I learned it was here in NC (granted it's on the beach, so it wasn't anywhere near as morbid as it sounds).

Today was the final straw. The team's trade of Jason Bay has emphasized to me, in the most clear terms possible, that the Pittsburgh Pirate organization, despite their alleged changes over the past two years or so, is so clueless, so hopelessly uncommitted to putting forth a quality effort to win, that they're no longer deserving of my business, my interest, or my respect. For at least the fourth time in recent memory (Aramis Ramirez, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall), the team has, rather than kept a popular star player and built around him, dealt him off for a bunch of :censored:ing nobodys who, if they're lucky, will be the popular star player the Pirates will trade away 3-4 years down the road.

It would be one thing if the Pirates were in a situation where dealing these players would really put the team in a position where they could compete for a division title the following year; a trade like that makes sense - we're not going to make it this year, so let's make a deal that puts us in a better position for next season. But the Pirates don't do that; the mindset is "let's lower our payroll and get prospects, pocket the money difference and hope the fans forget we've traded away yet another popular guy."

I've :censored:ing had it with that. The Pirates are no longer worthy of my time, effort, energy, and certainly money. I'm going to invest them in the Durham Bulls AAA team down here from now on. At least with them I understand that they aren't there solely to win (after all they're a minor league club; they exist to help develop players for the show), and odds are the Bulls play better baseball anyway.

[NJTank]

I feel sorry for you Pirate fans the way this franchise is run is shameful.

[BBTV]

A rant like that is truly worthy of the R. Budd smiley:

Hey - the Crimson Hawks could always use another supporter ...

[gingerbreadmann]

Uhh... well you can do that if you want, but my impression of the Huntington regime is that he is doing quite well, especially in the last few days. Seriously, why keep Bay if you're going nowhere with him in his career? Might as well just wipe the slate. While they may have gotten fleeced in many opinions by the Yankees, the fact is Nady is a career 4th outfielder playing above his level and Marte is an old low-leverage reliever. And when was the last time the Pirates had a real prospect with actual upside? That's Tabata. The other guys they got from NY will contribute to their staff soon enough. They're far from elite, but they will contribute somewhat. Then today, are you serious? Andy Laroche is a complete stud who was mismanaged by the Dodgers, and now he's with big bro. I admittedly know nothing of the other Dodger prospect. But Moss is a guy, while not factoring at all into the Sox' future, can perform at an average level, or maybe a bit above occasionally in the NL Central, at OF for years to come. Hansen has one of the top 3 most ridiculous sliders I have ever seen, and I'd bet good money that he will become insane out of Boston. Then you've got Freddy Sanchez, who is a good hitter you can sort of build around, and McLouth who I think is overachieving but hey, he's doing well and conceivably could for years to come. You've got Ian Snell, who has good upside at low long-term cost, Paul Maholm, Zach Duke, Matt Capps, I mean this isn't a terrible staff. You've got Jack Wilson and guys like him who will solidly hold the fort until some other prospects rise to the Show. In case you haven't heard much about him, Pedro Alvarez will probably make you forget any hard times once he comes up. The kid is an unbelievable player. And those are only guys off the top of my head.

I'm sorry, but neither Aramis, Kendall, Giles, nor even Bay are or were true stars when they were traded. Considering they were viewed as such and have been the Pirates' best players at various times, I can see hard times have been abundant recently (duh). But I certainly advise against, and especially after today, giving up on this team. Neal Huntington is better than you think and in the NL Central, I don't think this team is that far from contention. I think you are leaving the bandwagon 16 years too late, my friend, and at roughly a time when you should conceivably be getting back on.

(now watch them defy me and enter another 16 years of suck )

[oddball]

I've watched Andy LaRoche play and honestly he might become a serviceable thirdbaseman, but really he's another one of those prospects you always hear about that have potential. Trust me, he's not all you think he is, he wasn't mismanaged, he was overrated as a minor leaguer. Talented? Yes. All-Star? No. The fact of the matter that Blake Dewitt came in and took the job away from him says all you need to know about LaRoche, he could never secure the 3B job because he's a boarder line major league ball player.

On the other hand, the Pirates are a mismanaged team from the owners all the way down. No one in that organization knows anything about baseball, that is why they are in the position they are in. They trade quality (not all-stars) major leaguers for prospects every year. There is no next year for them, it's never! I feel for you as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer fan, a LA Kings fan, and even a Dodger fan, I know what pain and misery is, but don't bail on the team. There will be a day that it is sold and there will come an owner who understands baseball and gets good baseball people in there, when? I don't know, but I do know it will happen.

[Lee.]

After 33 years of faithful fandom, I hereby sever any and all ties I may have, emotional or otherwise, to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Having grown up with the team during the mid- and late 1970's I exhalted at their exploits, culminating with that 1979 "We Are Family" championship. In the 1980's I stayed excited about the team during every season, even that 1985 disaster (I actually sat through 14 games at Three Rivers that season - every one of them a loss). In the early 1990's I once again got excited over the team, despite the presence of that ***hole Barry Bonds, only to have my dreams of a return to the World Series dashed not once, not twice, but three times in a row. Since then I've put up with losing year after year, clueless ownership and management, and a 16-year rebuilding program; despite moving to North Carolina in 1994 I still managed to go to 3-4 Bucs home games each year. I've even gone so far as to schedule a vacation around paying my respects at Willie Stargell's gravesite when I learned it was here in NC (granted it's on the beach, so it wasn't anywhere near as morbid as it sounds).

Today was the final straw. The team's trade of Jason Bay has emphasized to me, in the most clear terms possible, that the Pittsburgh Pirate organization, despite their alleged changes over the past two years or so, is so clueless, so hopelessly uncommitted to putting forth a quality effort to win, that they're no longer deserving of my business, my interest, or my respect. For at least the fourth time in recent memory (Aramis Ramirez, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall), the team has, rather than kept a popular star player and built around him, dealt him off for a bunch of :censored:ing nobodys who, if they're lucky, will be the popular star player the Pirates will trade away 3-4 years down the road.

It would be one thing if the Pirates were in a situation where dealing these players would really put the team in a position where they could compete for a division title the following year; a trade like that makes sense - we're not going to make it this year, so let's make a deal that puts us in a better position for next season. But the Pirates don't do that; the mindset is "let's lower our payroll and get prospects, pocket the money difference and hope the fans forget we've traded away yet another popular guy."

I've :censored:ing had it with that. The Pirates are no longer worthy of my time, effort, energy, and certainly money. I'm going to invest them in the Durham Bulls AAA team down here from now on. At least with them I understand that they aren't there solely to win (after all they're a minor league club; they exist to help develop players for the show), and odds are the Bulls play better baseball anyway.

162 games, man. 162 games.

[Mac the Knife]

A rant like that is truly worthy of the R. Budd smiley:

Hey - the Crimson Hawks could always use another supporter ...

I supported them long enough, and until they started building the equivalent of luxury condos for their students, my wife did through the Alumni Association as well. There's another part of PA I can easily live without...

[Mac the Knife]

Uhh... well you can do that if you want, but my impression of the Huntington regime is that he is doing quite well, especially in the last few days. Seriously, why keep Bay if you're going nowhere with him in his career? Might as well just wipe the slate. While they may have gotten fleeced in many opinions by the Yankees, the fact is Nady is a career 4th outfielder playing above his level and Marte is an old low-leverage reliever. And when was the last time the Pirates had a real prospect with actual upside? That's Tabata. The other guys they got from NY will contribute to their staff soon enough. They're far from elite, but they will contribute somewhat. Then today, are you serious? Andy Laroche is a complete stud who was mismanaged by the Dodgers, and now he's with big bro. I admittedly know nothing of the other Dodger prospect. But Moss is a guy, while not factoring at all into the Sox' future, can perform at an average level, or maybe a bit above occasionally in the NL Central, at OF for years to come. Hansen has one of the top 3 most ridiculous sliders I have ever seen, and I'd bet good money that he will become insane out of Boston. Then you've got Freddy Sanchez, who is a good hitter you can sort of build around, and McLouth who I think is overachieving but hey, he's doing well and conceivably could for years to come. You've got Ian Snell, who has good upside at low long-term cost, Paul Maholm, Zach Duke, Matt Capps, I mean this isn't a terrible staff. You've got Jack Wilson and guys like him who will solidly hold the fort until some other prospects rise to the Show. In case you haven't heard much about him, Pedro Alvarez will probably make you forget any hard times once he comes up. The kid is an unbelievable player. And those are only guys off the top of my head.

I'm sorry, but neither Aramis, Kendall, Giles, nor even Bay are or were true stars when they were traded. Considering they were viewed as such and have been the Pirates' best players at various times, I can see hard times have been abundant recently (duh). But I certainly advise against, and especially after today, giving up on this team. Neal Huntington is better than you think and in the NL Central, I don't think this team is that far from contention. I think you are leaving the bandwagon 16 years too late, my friend, and at roughly a time when you should conceivably be getting back on.

(now watch them defy me and enter another 16 years of suck )

You're confusing true stardom with popularity in the Pittsburgh market. Ramirez to an extent, but far moreso Kendall, Giles and Bay, were each seen as "the" face of the team at the time they were traded - the marquee player.

And the prospects you list? Sure, they'll do great - after the Pirates trade their asses to another team.

And Lee? 162 games when you think your team is at least trying to win is tolerable if not enjoyable, but over 2,000 of not only having no realistic shot of winning a championship but having team ownership who simply doesn't give a about doing so, is enough for me.

[Lee.]

Uhh... well you can do that if you want, but my impression of the Huntington regime is that he is doing quite well, especially in the last few days. Seriously, why keep Bay if you're going nowhere with him in his career? Might as well just wipe the slate. While they may have gotten fleeced in many opinions by the Yankees, the fact is Nady is a career 4th outfielder playing above his level and Marte is an old low-leverage reliever. And when was the last time the Pirates had a real prospect with actual upside? That's Tabata. The other guys they got from NY will contribute to their staff soon enough. They're far from elite, but they will contribute somewhat. Then today, are you serious? Andy Laroche is a complete stud who was mismanaged by the Dodgers, and now he's with big bro. I admittedly know nothing of the other Dodger prospect. But Moss is a guy, while not factoring at all into the Sox' future, can perform at an average level, or maybe a bit above occasionally in the NL Central, at OF for years to come. Hansen has one of the top 3 most ridiculous sliders I have ever seen, and I'd bet good money that he will become insane out of Boston. Then you've got Freddy Sanchez, who is a good hitter you can sort of build around, and McLouth who I think is overachieving but hey, he's doing well and conceivably could for years to come. You've got Ian Snell, who has good upside at low long-term cost, Paul Maholm, Zach Duke, Matt Capps, I mean this isn't a terrible staff. You've got Jack Wilson and guys like him who will solidly hold the fort until some other prospects rise to the Show. In case you haven't heard much about him, Pedro Alvarez will probably make you forget any hard times once he comes up. The kid is an unbelievable player. And those are only guys off the top of my head.

I'm sorry, but neither Aramis, Kendall, Giles, nor even Bay are or were true stars when they were traded. Considering they were viewed as such and have been the Pirates' best players at various times, I can see hard times have been abundant recently (duh). But I certainly advise against, and especially after today, giving up on this team. Neal Huntington is better than you think and in the NL Central, I don't think this team is that far from contention. I think you are leaving the bandwagon 16 years too late, my friend, and at roughly a time when you should conceivably be getting back on.

(now watch them defy me and enter another 16 years of suck )

You're confusing true stardom with popularity in the Pittsburgh market. Ramirez to an extent, but far moreso Kendall, Giles and Bay, were each seen as "the" face of the team at the time they were traded - the marquee player.

And the prospects you list? Sure, they'll do great - after the Pirates trade their asses to another team.

And Lee? 162 games when you think your team is at least trying to win is tolerable if not enjoyable, but over 2,000 of not only having no realistic shot of winning a championship but having team ownership who simply doesn't give a about doing so, is enough for me.

You forget I'm a Cubs fan.

[gingerbreadmann]

You're confusing true stardom with popularity in the Pittsburgh market. Ramirez to an extent, but far moreso Kendall, Giles and Bay, were each seen as "the" face of the team at the time they were traded - the marquee player.

And the prospects you list? Sure, they'll do great - after the Pirates trade their asses to another team.

And Lee? 162 games when you think your team is at least trying to win is tolerable if not enjoyable, but over 2,000 of not only having no realistic shot of winning a championship but having team ownership who simply doesn't give a about doing so, is enough for me.

No, I'm saying that I understand they were the face of the franchise but the reality is they still weren't true stars -- and that is a sign of the woes Pittsburgh has been through.

And just wait -- Huntington is different. He understands they won't win now, so he's getting all he can for the next few years. If he approaches the incoming wave of talent the same way the previous regime has, I'll come out there and kiss your ass. I'm sure he's committed to winning.

And it's not like the A's, who actually come close every year, then trade absolute elite players for good prospects. That's more Beane's way than Pittsburgh's was, but at least he's good at it. And I don't think Pitt will be doing that much in the future -- unless the guys just become flat out too expensive. But he'll get appropriate value, I'd bet. At the very least, it's going to get very fun and interesting in the next few years down there.

Edit: And now I feel like an idiot. How could I forget McCutchen and Pearce? See? Loaded.

[BBTV]

A rant like that is truly worthy of the R. Budd smiley:

Hey - the Crimson Hawks could always use another supporter ...

I supported them long enough, and until they started building the equivalent of luxury condos for their students, my wife did through the Alumni Association as well. There's another part of PA I can easily live without...

LOL, I was just kidding. I have my own personal reasons for not supporting them anymore myself.

[JQK]

No true fan gives up on his team, even one as inept and awful as the Pirates.

You can boycot merchandise, refuse to buy tickets, resolve to never give the ownership of the team another cent of your money... but don't stop rooting for them.

Winners never quit, and don't trust whitey.

[Camden Crazy]

The future's looking up for the Pirates, IMO. They have McCutchen, Tabata, Pearce, Walker, and Alvarez all due in the next few years, and that's just hitting prospects.

[Mac the Knife]

The future's looking up for the Pirates, IMO. They have McCutchen, Tabata, Pearce, Walker, and Alvarez all due in the next few years, and that's just hitting prospects.

Their future has "looked up" for damned near 15 years now. I just can't support these guys anymore. If they were legitimately trying like the Cubs, I could see it. If they put together a decent group of young players that play at least .500 baseball like the A's and kept them together for a while, then dealt them off, I could live with it. But to be this bad AND deal off what you have solely so you can "lather, rinse, repeat?" Sorry, but I'm not buying that brand anymore.

[FiddySicks]

As a supporter of the Oakland Athletics, I must say,

QUIT SULKING, YOU FU*KING :censored:.

But in all seriousness, I can in some ways understand what your going through man, not to the deep extent that you do, but in some ways, I get it. Just gotta keep up hope, and not take it so damn seriously.

[habsfan1]

Well, since you're not from Pittsburgh, it should be easier for you to get over this. Best of luck to your new favorite team, many wins to come...

[rams80]

The future's looking up for the Pirates, IMO. They have McCutchen, Tabata, Pearce, Walker, and Alvarez all due in the next few years, and that's just hitting prospects.

Therein lies Mac's problem (I think). They are prospects. Sure, they might be good, but they may also end up sucking all over the field. Or get hurt and retire. Regardless of what the scouts say, you just don't know until they are in the big leagues.

[Gothamite]

I feel sorry for you Pirate fans the way this franchise is run is shameful.

Shame, too - they have one of the best-looking ballparks in all of baseball, and one of the best uniforms in all of baseball (so long as the alts get lost in the wash).

[CC97]

As a supporter of the Oakland Athletics, I must say,

QUIT SULKING, YOU FU*KING :censored:.

Any fan of a team who has made the playoffs in the past 16 years can't tell this guy to "stop sulking"

[Mac the Knife]

Well, since you're not from Pittsburgh, it should be easier for you to get over this. Best of luck to your new favorite team, many wins to come...

Actually Habs, I am from the Pittsburgh area. I escaped moved south in 1994.

And the A's at least have a hope of making the postseason in any given year, Buc. If I held out any hopes whatsoever that the Pirates would even break .500 once in a while, or that a marquee player of theirs wouldn't inevitably be traded elsewhere, that would've been enough for me. When Bay signed his last contract with the Pirates, some friends of mine and I created a pool as to how long it'd be before they dealt him off. I lost - by 3 whole days. THAT'S how predictable they are with this nonsense, and that's why I can't support them anymore.