Houston Astros 10 Years at Minute Maid Logo

[swisherHOU]

MMP ranks right in the middle of the league for homeruns. Are there some cheap ones given up in left, yes, but not as many as you would think. That is also balanced with one of the deepest center fields in baseball.

I don't mind the gimmicks...you either have cookie cutter round stadiums or you have gimmicks. Tal's Hill comes into play maybe 6 times all season. I think one ball in 9 seasons has hit a flagpole. That's about 1 in every 250,000 pitches. Houston is blessed with alot of things, but it is a sprawling city built on a coastal plain, so scenery isn't one of them. Other than the skyline there is nothing else the park can use from the surroundings to incorporate into the design.

I concede that the uniforms and train have little to nothing to do with space. Yes, its built on an old train station...we get it. Count me as one who would love to see them return to their uniform roots.

[STL FANATIC]

MMP ranks right in the middle of the league for homeruns. Are there some cheap ones given up in left, yes, but not as many as you would think. That is also balanced with one of the deepest center fields in baseball.

The idea shouldn't be to balance out the overall numbers. It should be to provide a balanced game.

You can absolutely have a unique and interesting ballpark without effect the overall play of the game. Houston didn't care to do the thinking required to have such a park, however.

[NYCdog]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

[swilson160]

Here's a scary thought: The third oldest NL Park is:

Dolphin Stadium.

There are only two ballparks in the NL that were active NL parks in 1992: Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field. The Marlins opened in 1993 (Dolphin Stadium opened in 1987) but every other team has moved to a new park since then.

[NYCdog]

Here's a scary thought: The third oldest NL Park is:

Dolphin Stadium.

There are only two ballparks in the NL that were active NL parks in 1992: Dodger Stadium and Wrigley Field. The Marlins opened in 1993 (Dolphin Stadium opened in 1987) but every other team has moved to a new park since then.

Well, come next Friday (2/13) we'll find out if Miami will finally have its new ballpark. All indications so far looks like the Marlins will get their new playpen in Little Havana.

If this happens, then come 2011, Coors Field will become the 3rd oldest park in the NL. They would be followed by Turner Field and then Chase Field.

Man, it just seemed like yesterday they all opened.

[IronChefShark]

Well look at the oldest NHL arenas as of this season

Mellon Arena, Pittsburgh - 1961 (soon to be replaced)

Madison Square Garden, New York - 1968

Nassau Coliseum, Long Island - 1972

Rexall Place, Edmonton - 1974

Joe Louis Arena, Detroit - 1979

Pengrowth Saddledome, Calgary - 1983

and after that.......Honda Center, Anaheim and HP Pavilion, San Jose - 1993

[STL FANATIC]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

Not sure what Busch Stadium has to do with this. On that topic, yes, it sucks that that hasn't gone anywhere yet, but hopefully it's getting there. It's no longer an unsightly hole though, they've filled it mostly in and planted grass. So for the time being it's just a wasted plot of land, but not really unsightly.

In any case, having a short left-field is excusable for Fenway. It was built when games didn't draw 40,000 fans in a cramped city. Overtime it developed into what it is, but they have an excuse for the awkward dimensions.

Houston has no excuse. If the ballpark didn't fit there, then they shouldn't have built it there. It's that simple.

[Gothamite]

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

[oo_nrb]

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

Like the hill with the flagpole. That pisses me off to no end. It's an injury risk for center fielders, and also provides a major fielding annoyance. I'd be alright with it if it was necessitated by the topography, but it's only purpose is to be a gimmick.

[IceCap]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

Not sure what Busch Stadium has to do with this.

It doesn't. NYCdog's grasping for straws.

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

Like the hill with the flagpole. That pisses me off to no end. It's an injury risk for center fielders, and also provides a major fielding annoyance. I'd be alright with it if it was necessitated by the topography, but it's only purpose is to be a gimmick.

Exactly. Stuff like the hill/flagpole and the train just aren't needed. It could be a passable ballpark if they stripped it of the gimmicks.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

Then it was a pretty crappy place to build a ballpark.

[NYCdog]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

Not sure what Busch Stadium has to do with this.

It doesn't. NYCdog's grasping for straws.

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

Like the hill with the flagpole. That pisses me off to no end. It's an injury risk for center fielders, and also provides a major fielding annoyance. I'd be alright with it if it was necessitated by the topography, but it's only purpose is to be a gimmick.

Exactly. Stuff like the hill/flagpole and the train just aren't needed. It could be a passable ballpark if they stripped it of the gimmicks.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

Then it was a pretty crappy place to build a ballpark.

A. Grasping for straws? That makes no sense seeing as I'm obviously not an Astros fan. Better yet, your post is a better example of "grasping for straws."

As for Busch, since we were on the topic of "annoying things with certain ballparks," I brought up Busch and that hole, which pisses me off. Such a beautiful view of downtown St Louis with the Arch.....destroyed by this hole in the outfield.

B. I agree....IIRC, Houston has no hills, just flat land. So why do a hill? The Hill really should be in Great American Ballpark in Cincy as a nod to Crosley Terrace.

C. Its easy for you and other nobody's to say "its a crappy location," but I'm sure the locals down there might have had good reason to choose the location. Maybe to save that 85 year-old train station from the wrecking ball? Astros fans, feel free to clear that up....

[Gothamite]

Its easy for you and other nobody's

Uncalled for, man.

[IceCap]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

Not sure what Busch Stadium has to do with this.

It doesn't. NYCdog's grasping for straws.

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

Like the hill with the flagpole. That pisses me off to no end. It's an injury risk for center fielders, and also provides a major fielding annoyance. I'd be alright with it if it was necessitated by the topography, but it's only purpose is to be a gimmick.

Exactly. Stuff like the hill/flagpole and the train just aren't needed. It could be a passable ballpark if they stripped it of the gimmicks.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

Then it was a pretty crappy place to build a ballpark.

A. Grasping for straws? That makes no sense seeing as I'm obviously not an Astros fan. Better yet, your post is a better example of "grasping for straws."

As for Busch, since we were on the topic of "annoying things with certain ballparks," I brought up Busch and that hole, which pisses me off. Such a beautiful view of downtown St Louis with the Arch.....destroyed by this hole in the outfield.

B. I agree....IIRC, Houston has no hills, just flat land. So why do a hill? The Hill really should be in Great American Ballpark in Cincy as a nod to Crosley Terrace.

C. Its easy for you and other nobody's to say "its a crappy location," but I'm sure the locals down there might have had good reason to choose the location. Maybe to save that 85 year-old train station from the wrecking ball? Astros fans, feel free to clear that up....

You're amusing in a prologo kind of way.

Yes, when you drag the Cardinals stadium into a discussion that doesn't concern it just to "justify" the gimmicks of MM Park, you are grasping for straws.

If a park's location restricts it from being big enough then yeah, the location is crappy. There's one reason and one reason only that the Astros chose that location to build their park; to make their train gimmick (which doesn't even fit with the team's name) fit.

Bad gimmicks, bad location, bad ballpark.

[cajunaggie08]

That park sucks.

I'm sure it's beautiful and a fun experience.

But that park makes a great case for implementing some ballpark standards in the MLB. Lefties shouldn't be able to hit popups for three run home runs, but it happens all the time there.

I love unique features to ballparks, but I get tired of the gimmicks that tear at the quality of the game. From the hill, to the flagpole in play, to the short LF, MMP is closer to a theme park than a ballpark.

Im sure they would have made left field deeper (to your liking) except there is one problem.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

And while Houston might have all the gimicks of a circus fun-house, atleast Houston doesn't have an unsightly hole-in-the-ground behind the left field wall of their shiney new park like you Card fans get enjoy. And sadly, since the Cards, Cordish Development Co., and the city of STL can't seem to work together on what to build, it looks like baseball's juiced-up power hitters will now have this hole-in-the-ground next door to aim at come All-Star Game/Home Run Derby time.

Not sure what Busch Stadium has to do with this.

It doesn't. NYCdog's grasping for straws.

I'd tend to agree. But at least that one's an honest quirk of geography, rather than ripping off other distinctive elements of historical stadiums for no other reason than gimmickry.

Like the hill with the flagpole. That pisses me off to no end. It's an injury risk for center fielders, and also provides a major fielding annoyance. I'd be alright with it if it was necessitated by the topography, but it's only purpose is to be a gimmick.

Exactly. Stuff like the hill/flagpole and the train just aren't needed. It could be a passable ballpark if they stripped it of the gimmicks.

There is an 85 year-old building and tracks for a roof standing in there way.

Then it was a pretty crappy place to build a ballpark.

A. Grasping for straws? That makes no sense seeing as I'm obviously not an Astros fan. Better yet, your post is a better example of "grasping for straws."

As for Busch, since we were on the topic of "annoying things with certain ballparks," I brought up Busch and that hole, which pisses me off. Such a beautiful view of downtown St Louis with the Arch.....destroyed by this hole in the outfield.

B. I agree....IIRC, Houston has no hills, just flat land. So why do a hill? The Hill really should be in Great American Ballpark in Cincy as a nod to Crosley Terrace.

C. Its easy for you and other nobody's to say "its a crappy location," but I'm sure the locals down there might have had good reason to choose the location. Maybe to save that 85 year-old train station from the wrecking ball? Astros fans, feel free to clear that up....

The Astros wanted a downtown ballpark and from what I can remember, there weren't too many open spots to put a ballpark. With the Houston economy booming at the time, space downtown was getting pricier and pricier. The east side of downtown where the park wound up being built was an older part of downtown that had been neglected for years so the land was cheaper plus it was one of the few places in downtown where there were abandoned buildings. I dont know if there was an urge from the city to save Union Station, but the team decided to keep it and integrate it into the stadium.

As far as the the ballpark being too quirky, sure it really doesn't need the hill or flagpole. But it gives the place a bit of character that the Astrodome lacked. Watching baseball in the Astrodome was often just plain boring. Sure baseball purists my stone me but watching a 2-1 pitching duel everyday isnt that entertaining. The dimensions for Busch III work well for st louis because most cards fans are happy to watch any 2 people play catch. They are baseball crazy over there. While Houston has decent baseball support, the Astros' owner knew he needed an entertaining game to keep fans coming Houston wasnt a baseball first town.

[Gothamite]

As far as the the ballpark being too quirky, sure it really doesn't need the hill or flagpole. But it gives the place a bit of character that the Astrodome lacked.

No, it doesn't. That's the problem.

Rather than character, it's just surface flash without any substance, more background noise. There's a difference.

[Firefly]

Yeah, the idea was to rejuvenate downtown. It was followed by a light rail system, fixing up the bayou in an effort to ape San Antonio's Riverwalk, the Toyota Center, high rise condos, lofts, and a fancy new downtown park (with a hill!).

It's not a bad place to walk around for a city where you usually have to drive to everything.

[IceCap]

As far as the the ballpark being too quirky, sure it really doesn't need the hill or flagpole. But it gives the place a bit of character that the Astrodome lacked.

No, it doesn't. That's the problem.

Rather than character, it's just surface flash without any substance, more background noise. There's a difference.

Pretty much.

It's a mall, with a nice food court, that happens to have a baseball diamond in the middle.

[mmejia]

Pretty much.

It's a mall, with a nice food court, that happens to have a baseball diamond in the middle.

Serious question, have you ever been to MMP? I've had season tickets since it opened and probably make 30-40 games a year and do not have this opinion at all. Is it Wrigley or Fenway? Not even close, but that doesn't mean you have to throw every generic MLB retro park insult towards it. I've been to around 15 MLB parks and would put MMP reasonably high on the list.

I have a feeling most of the complaints about MMP are from people that have never been to the park or even to Houston for that matter. The ballpark was a huge part of the revitalization of Houston's inner city. I have a townhome in midtown and absolutely love walking to a downtown park while hitting some pubs on the way. Walking to any kind of venue in this city was unheard of 20 years ago.

[Gothamite]

I have been to the park. And I think Icecap's correct in his description.

The ballpark was a huge part of the revitalization of Houston's inner city. I have a townhome in midtown and absolutely love walking to a downtown park while hitting some pubs on the way. Walking to any kind of venue in this city was unheard of 20 years ago.

That's great - I love that. But none of that has anything to do with Minute Maid Park's relative value as a baseball park once you actually get inside the building.

[STL FANATIC]

I haven't been to MMP, and I respect that it makes my opinion less relevant. But it doesn't make it totally irrelevant.

See, I have watched numerous games played there, and I've seen how these gimmicks affect the play of the ballgame. And that's all I need to know.