Back In The Game?

[Shane Does Art]

Let's ask the REAL God what he thinks...

Give Phoenix more time to put a good product on the ice and problems disappear. Easier said than done I suppose.

[njmeadowlanders]

I hope you guys are happy that I won't post on this thread again.

Sometimes, the ungodly are postponed judgement for way too long...

Hurrah, we can discuss like grown-ups again.

Anyways, here's something else worth discussing... the plot thickens.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=277645

Hmm....Russian blood money. It works for the Brits, why not the NHL. That said, I think the NHL would sooner let Balsillie have the team than him.

(and probably sooner put the team under league control than either of those.)

Typical Bettman. Man, when is his contract up again?

2010/2011. Which doesn't mean the BOG won't re-up with him.

Yeah, and from what I've heard it's looking like they will. However, if the league does end up running the Coyotes, that might change a few minds. This whole Phoenix thing looks like it might be heading towards a pretty disastrous outcome for ol' Gary.

League ownership didn't end Selig's tenure. Since I gather the BOG doesn't like either Medvedev or Balsillie, they may prefer this setup as well.

Or yeah...if somebody in Kansas City makes a bid, they'll go with that.

Maybe Medvedev is just doing this to piss off the NHL BOG. I mean he does mention traditionnal hockey markets which is a gripe many of the NHL's fans do have. Maybe he's just bringing this up to stir the pot in North America a little.

More than likely, especially since Quebec does need a new arena before even being considered.

You mean Le Colisee, the tiny 60 year old arena doesn't do it for you?

I'd be all for NHL Hockey to return to (or go to for the first time) a few places in Canada, but when there is a city with a new arena like KC in the mix, I just can't see it happening.

Of course, if not Phoenix or Nashville there is a team that plays in a tiny, decrepid arena off the Meadowbrook Parkway in lovely Uniondale, NY...and their owner just came out and said (paraphrasing) "If I had the opportunity again I wouldn't buy them", referring of course to the Icelanders. I'd miss the rivalry, but nobody cares about the Isles...and without a new Nassau Mausoleum, they'll be looking to take a hike as well.

[Lee.]

Let's ask the REAL God what he thinks...

Give Phoenix more time to put a good product on the ice and problems disappear. Easier said than done I suppose.

Phoenix has had 14+ years to put a good product on the ice. At least their woes went with them when they left Winnipeg.

The NHL will still find a way to screw this up. Why let a guy with real money into the league when they can keep bleeding debt in the desert. right?

[rams80]

Let's ask the REAL God what he thinks...

Give Phoenix more time to put a good product on the ice and problems disappear. Easier said than done I suppose.

Phoenix has had 14+ years to put a good product on the ice. At least their woes went with them when they left Winnipeg.

The NHL will still find a way to screw this up. Why let a guy with real money into the league when they can keep bleeding debt in the desert. right?

It may be real money, but is real money worth adding a colossal headache who has flat out ignored league franchise and ownership rules in the past?

[Lee.]

Let's ask the REAL God what he thinks...

Give Phoenix more time to put a good product on the ice and problems disappear. Easier said than done I suppose.

Phoenix has had 14+ years to put a good product on the ice. At least their woes went with them when they left Winnipeg.

The NHL will still find a way to screw this up. Why let a guy with real money into the league when they can keep bleeding debt in the desert. right?

It may be real money, but is real money worth adding a colossal headache who has flat out ignored league franchise and ownership rules in the past?

It can be argued that league franchise and ownership rules are a joke, considering the various states of franchises in Miami, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, and of all places, Raleigh.

IMO, Balsillie sees the way the NHL is run, sees that things need to change, and is willing to be the NHL's very own Al Davis, without the zombie-like qualities that Al possesses.

I do find it odd, though, that the Coyotes file bankruptcy and immediately thereafter, Balsillie has a bid in. Hmm.

[rams80]

Let's ask the REAL God what he thinks...

Give Phoenix more time to put a good product on the ice and problems disappear. Easier said than done I suppose.

Phoenix has had 14+ years to put a good product on the ice. At least their woes went with them when they left Winnipeg.

The NHL will still find a way to screw this up. Why let a guy with real money into the league when they can keep bleeding debt in the desert. right?

It may be real money, but is real money worth adding a colossal headache who has flat out ignored league franchise and ownership rules in the past?

It can be argued that league franchise and ownership rules are a joke, considering the various states of franchises in Miami, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, and of all places, Raleigh.

IMO, Balsillie sees the way the NHL is run, sees that things need to change, and is willing to be the NHL's very own Al Davis, without the zombie-like qualities that Al possesses.

I do find it odd, though, that the Coyotes file bankruptcy and immediately thereafter, Balsillie has a bid in. Hmm.

Still...taking down season ticket deposits in another market whilst using the league's logo as well as the logo and nickname of a franchise you do not officially own yet is a tad more egregious, yes?

I'm not sure the NHL wants an Al Davis. Shoot, I'm not sure the NFL owners think having Al Davis is/was a good thing. The commissioners sure don't.

I've seen at least one online theory that suggests the Coyotes filed for bankruptcy at Balsillie's urging over the NHL's objection....because said bankruptcy 1) pushes his bid to the top, and 2) nixes the lease, saving him a rather significant chunk of change.

Said theory is probably true, given the generally pi$$ed off nature of the NHL's response, as well as their statement about how Moyes has no authority over the Coyotes at the moment.

[Viper]

The Coyotes have already gone Chapter 11, which means a federal bankruptcy court is now involved in the proceedings. Unless I'm missing something here, that in turn means Gary Bettman and the BOG won't necessarily have the final say this time as to Balsillie buying and/or moving the club. If the judge OKs Balsillie as the new owner but Bettman and company try to block the deal, might we be treated to the sight of Bettman being threatened with a contempt citation? Or is that just my schadenfreude talking? (Though I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wouldn't mind seeing Bettman hauled off to jail.)

[Lee.]

As far as taking deposits etc while not really owning the team, I think Balsillie was trying to send a message to the NHL BOG that, hey, here's a market that WANTS TO SUPPORT A TEAM, rather than having it languish in Tennessee. At some point, the NHLPA is also going to step in and say, hey, if certain teams are getting handouts in the form of equalization payments, then they're obviously dragging down the revenues, and by extension, dragging down their earning potential in the form of the cap.

Balsillie wants in, Wang wants out, and at some point, other owners are going to simply walk away from their franchises, leaving the league and Bettman in the lurch.

Egregious or not, business is business, and in the end, money talks. Always has, always will. There's not a single owner in the league that can claim ethical or moral superiority over anyone else, they've all participated in dodgy schemes at some point, hell, I'd wager that there were shady deals that led to their team ownership in the first place. I just don't think they like the idea of new blood coming in and not kissing their asses to let him play in their treehouse.

My opinion only, your mileage may vary.

[The_Admiral]

Man, hating Al Davis is more fashionable these days than ugly plastic sunglasses. Give the man his due.

Well, like I said, start building Winnipeg Arena Mark 3.

[The_Admiral]

Don't mock God. What you sew, you will reap.

Textile/agriculture mixed metaphor. Haha. Great. A stitch in time saves rye.

Oh man, reading this thread from page one was a bad idea.

[Sodboy13]

I completely forgot about the bankruptcy allowing them out of that punishing lease. Now this is really interesting.

As for allowing Phoenix more time to develop, I might remind you that Phoenix had a young team with a sparkplug of a veteran leader, and was solidly in the playoff hunt before the trade deadline, when Glendale turned into Fire Sale Central. Then there's Gretzky, who's proving himself to be Michael Jordan's equal in the category of Tarnishing One's Legacy Via Management (aka The Isiah Thomas Award.) And he's making eight figures for making that team bad, and making fans stay away when his name is supposed to be bringing them in.

I'd like to think that an owner committed to the market will come in and save the Coyotes, but in this economy, the league's gotta take its money wherever it can find it, and wherever that money takes the team. For the sake of hockey fans in Phoenix, if/when the Coyotes leave, hopefully market conditions will facilitate the return of a team to the market in a few years, especially when that young, growing fanbase has matured into young adults with disposable income. If one is looking for hope in a similar situation, cast your eyes north to Denver. Stuck with a clunker of a franchise for several years, lost it, and now they sit with two Cups and a team that, while in a downturn on the ice, has established itself as a top-tier organization that isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[rams80]

The Coyotes have already gone Chapter 11, which means a federal bankruptcy court is now involved in the proceedings. Unless I'm missing something here, that in turn means Gary Bettman and the BOG won't necessarily have the final say this time as to Balsillie buying and/or moving the club. If the judge OKs Balsillie as the new owner but Bettman and company try to block the deal, might we be treated to the sight of Bettman being threatened with a contempt citation? Or is that just my schadenfreude talking? (Though I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wouldn't mind seeing Bettman hauled off to jail.)

I don't know. However, thanks to that bailout loan the NHL gave the Coyotes, they are now a creditor of the team as well apparently, and they therefore do have a say in this.

/Why jail Bettman for doing what the owners want?

[Lee.]

/Why jail Bettman for doing what certain owners want?

Fixed for accuracy.

[The_Admiral]

From the Versus report, it sounds like they need to know where the team will be (Phoenix? elsewhere? existing?) by the end of next month so they can print tickets and schedules and stuff. The quick turnaround would indicate that it's highly unlikely that a relocation is pulled off. However, the fact that the prospective ownership groups all seem to be from out of town and Bettman's power to keep the team in Glendale is compromised would indicate that it's all over for the Coyotes. So honestly I have no clue what's going to happen. Kansas City makes the most sense but is least likely, Waterloo-Kitchener makes the least sense but seems most likely.

[rams80]

/Why jail Bettman for doing what certain owners want?

Fixed for accuracy.

So why don't we toss those owners in the pokey as well? It's only fair.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So...from attempting to parse through various stuff on hfboards....apparently the NHL, when it made the loan, more or less included verbiage that says, "only we can say if the Phoenix Coyotes are filing for bankruptcy". If this is the case, presumably they will say so on Thursday and also tell Balsillie to sod off and buy a KHL team or something.

[Lee.]

/Why jail Bettman for doing what certain owners want?

Fixed for accuracy.

So why don't we toss those owners in the pokey as well? It's only fair.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So...from attempting to parse through various stuff on hfboards....apparently the NHL, when it made the loan, more or less included verbiage that says, "only we can say if the Phoenix Coyotes are filing for bankruptcy". If this is the case, presumably they will say so on Thursday and also tell Balsillie to sod off and buy a KHL team or something.

I'm not so much advocating tossing Bettman in jail so much as making the claim that he acts only in the best interests of certain League members.

Now, reading through some other sites, I'm seeing that the NHL is upset that Moyes initiated bankruptcy proceedings without asking the league for permission. Now I don't know with any certainty, but did the Penguins need to ask the league for permission to file?

[Viper]

The Coyotes have already gone Chapter 11, which means a federal bankruptcy court is now involved in the proceedings. Unless I'm missing something here, that in turn means Gary Bettman and the BOG won't necessarily have the final say this time as to Balsillie buying and/or moving the club. If the judge OKs Balsillie as the new owner but Bettman and company try to block the deal, might we be treated to the sight of Bettman being threatened with a contempt citation? Or is that just my schadenfreude talking? (Though I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wouldn't mind seeing Bettman hauled off to jail.)

I don't know. However, thanks to that bailout loan the NHL gave the Coyotes, they are now a creditor of the team as well apparently, and they therefore do have a say in this.

/Why jail Bettman for doing what the owners want?

The league has a say, but not the final say, not now that there's also a federal bankruptcy judge involved. Creditors or no, somehow I doubt the judge is going to take very kindly to the NHL dragging out the proceedings by trying to prevent a sale to a willing and capable buyer just because they don't happen to like said willing and capable buyer. Certainly not if he decides the NHL is trying to keep the Coyotes in a bad situation.

I'd like to think that an owner committed to the market will come in and save the Coyotes, but in this economy, the league's gotta take its money wherever it can find it, and wherever that money takes the team.

I wonder whether Bettman and company aren't already privately resigned to a shotgun wedding with Balsillie in Hamilton, be it court-ordered or simply bowing to economic reality, and Bettman's remarks to the contrary aren't just so much spin control, so that if/when it happens, Bettman can at least tell the BOG and the folks in Phoenix, "Hey, don't look at me - I wanted to keep the team in town as much as you did, but my hand was forced."

[The_Admiral]

Nothing he's never said to Hartford.

[DelayedPenalty]

There is no way at this late stage in the year that a team can be relocated, have a suitable arena, merchandising, marketing, etc and play in the upcoming season. Balsillie may be allowed to purchase the team, or take over payments, or whatever he has to do under the Chapter 11 rules in court. He might have to keep the team in Phoenix for another year or more in order to get things arranged in Hamilton (unless they play at Copps) or Kitchener.

Give the fans of Phoenix two years and say "Prove me wrong!" Show that they want a hockey team by coming out and supporting them, regardless of performance, like true hockey fans.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens...

[DG_ThenNowForever]

There is no way at this late stage in the year that a team can be relocated, have a suitable arena, merchandising, marketing, etc and play in the upcoming season. Balsillie may be allowed to purchase the team, or take over payments, or whatever he has to do under the Chapter 11 rules in court. He might have to keep the team in Phoenix for another year or more in order to get things arranged in Hamilton (unless they play at Copps) or Kitchener.

Give the fans of Phoenix two years and say "Prove me wrong!" Show that they want a hockey team by coming out and supporting them, regardless of performance, like true hockey fans.

I live in Seattle. You'd be surprised how quickly a pro sports team can up and move, irrespective of fan support.