The Draw Brawl Competition

[winters in buffalo]

Has this been approved by the competition committee?

Really? Have you noticed the "competitions" that have gone on, whether organized or not, in the past 6 months or so? I didn't even think the Competition Committee was together anymore honestly.

We don't get many requests anymore. When the committee was first formed, we were juggling requests. After awhile, it became a review & stamp process.

I don't think we need a committee anymore, but if we still need a gatekeeper, I'm ready to turn over those duties.

[chestnutz]

It's great to see people would be willing to participate, so thanks! Looks like it'll be able to go through.

I've got a few people in mind to help me out, and I'll be messaging them soon. If anyone else wants to just let me know.

I just moved into my new house so no Internet for a day or so, and I'll be in new York for the mets game tomorrow as well, so if everything goes accordingly I'll try and post the first round on Thursday.

And good idea, I'll def make everyone use a template.

[slapshot]

One of the reasons the committee was formed, aside from the flood from newbies trying to start them, was due to the disorganization of the contests.

I feel a contest needs the following parameters to be successful:

1. Anonymous entries. Too many members will vote for their friends, or vote on the artist only, regardless of merit. Time has proven that only unknown entries will be voted upon based on their concepts.

2. Uniform templates. Some artists go above and beyond, or get a little overboard in their presentations, and skew the votes. I've seen a lot of concepts get overly praised because the presentation/template was fantastic, even though the idea itself was very boring and plain.

3. Time frame/events. Many of the multiple-even contests take too long, and participants and voters lose interest over time. Whether it's people backing out prior to the start, or real life taking over, it's hard to say. But if a contest needs to be dragged out over a few months to complete it, you probably need to cut back on some of the events.

4. Skill. Let's face it...some people are more skilled than others. It doesn't have anything to do with tools, it's overall knowledge and experience. If you want to accept members of all skill levels, it would probably work better to separate them into tiers. Feelings are going to be hurt regardless, but it's supposed to be fun. Separating by skill keeps more interest because newcomers using Paint aren't going to be expected to go crazy trying to beat a seasoned professional using Photoshop or Illustrator.

5. Flexibility. Don't go overboard trying to adjust the rules in an attempt to accommodate everyone. If they can't meet the requirements within reason, they should forfeit that round. It weeds out the slackers, and keeps a little bit of the intensity that makes a contest challenging, yet fun to participate in.

These aren't strict guidelines, but they do make the contests more enjoyable. People should keep them in mind when planning a contest, because winging it doesn't seem to work out. Planning it out and sticking to the schedule actually makes it easier for everyone in the long run, because it's less to worry about.

Good luck.

[DanDismounts]

I'm totally game lets do this!

[Spammy]

Im all in, lets go!!!!!!!!

[heernumurr]

4. Skill. Let's face it...some people are more skilled than others. It doesn't have anything to do with tools, it's overall knowledge and experience. If you want to accept members of all skill levels, it would probably work better to separate them into tiers. Feelings are going to be hurt regardless, but it's supposed to be fun. Separating by skill keeps more interest because newcomers using Paint aren't going to be expected to go crazy trying to beat a seasoned professional using Photoshop or Illustrator.

This is a great idea that I haven't seen before. A sort of Divisional system would be great, and could be decided behind the scenes by judges before the start of each event. I've seen contests before where entries were weeded down to a top 10 before voting would begin, but this seems an even better way to do things. The weaker/less experienced participants still have something to play for, while even getting selected to the "top tier" would be an achievement in itself.

[undead]

The tier system is an excellent idea. I don't think a paint user will ever win a competition against vectors. A lot of people that use paint have extraordinary talent that is looked over because the concept is not "clean". I may be up for this competition depending on the particulars.

[rentz]

A tier system would inevitably upset some people, but I think if it's structured so that people can move up tiers it'd be fine so there wouldn't be a sense of exclusivity. If there are(for example) ten people in each tier, maybe the highest vote getter from the second tier would replace the lowest vote getter in the first tier for the next round, and so on. That way no one would feel "stuck" in a tier.

[heernumurr]

A tier system would inevitably upset some people, but I think if it's structured so that people can move up tiers it'd be fine so there wouldn't be a sense of exclusivity. If there are(for example) ten people in each tier, maybe the highest vote getter from the second tier would replace the lowest vote getter in the first tier for the next round, and so on. That way no one would feel "stuck" in a tier.

Yes, but the intention is to be able to enter any or every round you want. There's no point relegating and promoting people if they may not enter the next round. Or if only three people submit an entry, there would be no need. If there was to be a system like this, I believe it should be decided on a round by round, entry by entry basis.

Also, if your entry is seleted for the "second tier" why would you think you could do any better in the top one? I know I'd rather have a fighting chance in a lower division than be completely disregarded in a higher one.

[rentz]

A tier system would inevitably upset some people, but I think if it's structured so that people can move up tiers it'd be fine so there wouldn't be a sense of exclusivity. If there are(for example) ten people in each tier, maybe the highest vote getter from the second tier would replace the lowest vote getter in the first tier for the next round, and so on. That way no one would feel "stuck" in a tier.

Yes, but the intention is to be able to enter any or every round you want. There's no point relegating and promoting people if they may not enter the next round. Or if only three people submit an entry, there would be no need. If there was to be a system like this, I believe it should be decided on a round by round, entry by entry basis.

Also, if your entry is seleted for the "second tier" why would you think you could do any better in the top one? I know I'd rather have a fighting chance in a lower division than be completely disregarded in a higher one.

Yeah actually with regards to the rules of this contest my idea wouldn't work. But who would decide which tiers people are in in each round? Would there be a judge committee that decides that prior to voting?

[fkaKrock5cent]

A tier system would inevitably upset some people, but I think if it's structured so that people can move up tiers it'd be fine so there wouldn't be a sense of exclusivity. If there are(for example) ten people in each tier, maybe the highest vote getter from the second tier would replace the lowest vote getter in the first tier for the next round, and so on. That way no one would feel "stuck" in a tier.

Yes, but the intention is to be able to enter any or every round you want. There's no point relegating and promoting people if they may not enter the next round. Or if only three people submit an entry, there would be no need. If there was to be a system like this, I believe it should be decided on a round by round, entry by entry basis.

Also, if your entry is seleted for the "second tier" why would you think you could do any better in the top one? I know I'd rather have a fighting chance in a lower division than be completely disregarded in a higher one.

Yeah actually with regards to the rules of this contest my idea wouldn't work. But who would decide which tiers people are in in each round? Would there be a judge committee that decides that prior to voting?

That would be my guess.

what if, when we have enough contestants for a challenge, we have a paint tier and a vector tier?

[slapshot]

I don't think you need a "paint" tier and a "vector" tier. I was just using those for examples.

There have been concepts shown on this board, completed in Paint, that would blow any vector concept out of the water.

It's not the application that should determine "ranking". It's the ability and experience of the artist.

[Brass]

I love the idea of separating by skill. I wouldn't mind being placed in a "Paint" category.

[crkraider22]

If we are going to use a common template, may I suggest ScottySprings' style gudie that he released a few monnths ago. They seem to be easy to use and navigate.

[Ted Cunningham]

Why don't you guys allow the people who are going to be in the competition decide individually what tier they're going to be in. I know in most intramural/rec-league sports I've played in, there's always been a "recreational" division and a "competitive" division. The teams would form and then decide which division to be in depending on how good they felt they were. I remember some teams of cocky kids who played a sport in high school or whatever would go into the competitive division in intramurals, and the college teams' players would be in that division (in their off-season most of the time) and the cocky kids would just get pulverized week in and week out.

The designers whose concepts are just not up to snuff will never get the votes in the "competitive" division, especially if the concepts are displayed in complete anonymity and use a single template.

(That is also a problem: if the same template is used, would there be a copy in .eps, .psd, and .bmp, that way Paint users could have a template that was paint friendly?)

[fkaKrock5cent]

I don't think you need a "paint" tier and a "vector" tier. I was just using those for examples.

There have been concepts shown on this board, completed in Paint, that would blow any vector concept out of the water.

It's not the application that should determine "ranking". It's the ability and experience of the artist.

I don't doubt that at all. Now that I think about it, you could just "cheat" and use vector magic to make your designs look vector anyways.

As for the template, as long as it can be converted to .svg, I'm happy.

[elliott]

I don't think you need a "paint" tier and a "vector" tier. I was just using those for examples.

There have been concepts shown on this board, completed in Paint, that would blow any vector concept out of the water.

It's not the application that should determine "ranking". It's the ability and experience of the artist.

Exactly, I agree wholeheartedly with that. The program used doesn't always determine skill level.

2 or 3 levels would work. It's like varsity, club, and intramural in college, sorta.

I'll participate in whatever happens and I know that erik will be a good organizer.

[BJBerthiaume]

I'm totally game to do this, but I'm wondering what the topic for the first round will be.

[CAB]

I think it's a great idea to have people choose what level they want to compete with. If somebody's not very good, and try to compete in the top tier, then that would be their fault for doing so. It's best to let the competitors themselves choose because nobody knows what your capable of except yourself.

[quantum]

I think it's a great idea to have people choose what level they want to compete with. If somebody's not very good, and try to compete in the top tier, then that would be their fault for doing so. It's best to let the competitors themselves choose because nobody knows what your capable of except yourself.

Or, have a top tier designer take on the less skilled designers for an easy win. Brilliant. ***

***=Just kidding. I won't be participating. I'm just pointing out that allowing contestants to pick which contest to join has its negatives as well. Previous postings or portfolio should determine seeding IMO.