2010-11 NBA Season

[rams80]

Did you expect them to get Dwight Howard in trade for Garnett? Not many guys are the caliber of KG. If they traded a 31 year old superstar with a lot of miles for a 22 year old guy of similar caliber - they'd be the ones doing the screwing. A prospect the caliber of 2007 Al Jefferson is about as good as you can get. Maybe you think they should have thrown in Rondo? That would be a fair criticism, but if 10 is a fair trade (Rondo+Al+crap for KG) and 0 is a screwjob (Pau for crap)... Al for KG is still a 5; but you're still calling it zero.

No his stats have shown an uptick lately; the Jazz just traded Deron Williams. And if we're discussing high caliber 2007 NBA prospects, I'm rather intrigued by Mr. Durant out of the University of Texas. Maybe Al Horford if I absolutely need somebody who can pass for a Center.

That said still...what has Al Jefferson shown you in his career to make you think empirically that THIS, THIS is a guy I can build an annual NBA playoff team around provided I don't have a GM who can be entertained by the antics of Tinky Winky. He's been the Alpha dog in Minnesota. He's the ing Alpha dog in Utah now...at least until Utah just finishes blowing everything up. No playoff spots. , no seasons with more than 25 wins prior to this year. At least with Garnett you could entertain the thought that if you could just replace McHale with someone who wasn't an idiot, you might blunder back into the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. Now you don't even have that.

[loogodude90]

Let's not forget that Marc Gasol seems to be a decent contributor in Memphis to this day, and I consider him to be a factor for why they are in the playoff hunt... are any of the scrubs that were traded for Garnett even still in Minnesota? The fact that I don't know tells me that even if they are, they aren't doing much.

[chakfu]

At least with Garnett you could entertain the thought that if you could just replace McHale with someone who wasn't and idiot, you might blunder back into the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. Now you don't even have that.

With Garnett you could entertain the thought of blundering into the playoffs and bowing out as a 6-8 seed for a couple of years until Garnett retired.

Young alpha dogs generally don't get traded. But with Al you get a solid beta dog and the chance of finding an alpha in the lottery. That's what rebuilding is, it's not instantaneous. Maybe they keep Al and get Derrick Rose or Blake Griffin if the ping pong balls go differently. You don't build a team in the NBA through internal mediocrity and first round exits.

We're kind of getting to the crux of the discussion: is a beta dog better than nothing? Minnesota traded an old alpha dog for a young beta. Memphis traded a fairly young beta for nothing (maybe his brother the delta dog?) Seems like that's equivalent in your book. It's not in mine. I feel like you're saying that anybody who is not a first ballot hall of fame has negligible value. That you're better off starting over with nothing than keeping a good but not great player.

[chakfu]

Let's not forget that Marc Gasol seems to be a decent contributor in Memphis to this day, and I consider him to be a factor for why they are in the playoff hunt... are any of the scrubs that were traded for Garnett even still in Minnesota? The fact that I don't know tells me that even if they are, they aren't doing much.

Or that you don't follow the NBA closely. Or that Minnesota replaced McHale with a worse GM who dumps Al Jefferson on the cheap but keeps Darko. Heck, look at it this way. Memphis got Marc Gasol, who's averaging 12 pts at 7 rebounds. Minnesota got Al, who's averaging 19 points and almost 10 rebounds (the fact that it's in Utah has nothing to do with the trades in question.)

Now look at it from a 2007 perspective - a 48th pick contributing 12/7 is way more than would be expected. Al Jefferson's progression from 16/10 to 19/10 is a disappointment. So even though Jefferson is more productive statwise today - the difference in value in 2007 was even more profound.

[chakfu]

No his stats have shown an uptick lately; the Jazz just traded Deron Williams.

By that logic: think how much better Karl Malone would have looked if Utah had gotten rid of Stockton!

[rams80]

Well yes, at this point the best way to fix Minnesota (or at least best way to start...) is shoot the owner and hope his heir sells the team.

[rams80]

No his stats have shown an uptick lately; the Jazz just traded Deron Williams.

By that logic: think how much better Karl Malone would have looked if Utah had gotten rid of Stockton!

His PPG and rebounds probably would have gone up. That all important "W" stat would have taken a hit though...

[Rockstar Matt]

Yes, that is serious logic. The Grizzlies are back in the playoff hunt only a couple years after their joke of a trade with the Lakers. The Timberwolves aren't even close to competing. Therefore, the Celtics' trade had more damaging effects on their trade partner than the Lakers' trade had on theirs. It's not that hard to understand.

Well, it is, because you're implying that those trades were the only things that have happened to those respective teams since 2007-08 that have impacted how they are currently playing, which is obviously not true. I mean, maybe the Garnett trade was indeed more devastating, but you're ignoring the majority of the equation.

Exactly. Gee, a team that had Rudy Gay and who used their cap space on Zach Randolph is doing better than a team who had Mark Madsen and who used their cap space on Darko Milicic! It must be because they traded for nothing instead of Al Jefferson.

Or more precisely:

It must have been equally fair and aboveboard to take a 48th pick who hasn't played in the NBA or a 22 year old guy coming off a 16/10 season. It was fair anad aboveboard because Marc Gasol luckily turned out to be decent and Al Jefferson unluckily tore up his knee. Maybe the Celtics screwed the Wolves because they knew Minnesota would waste its draft picks and cap space and that Al would get hurt?

I don't really want to comment on what you guys are saying, but it's relevant. Has anybody noticed that a former Celtic player sent his teams' best player to his former team to make them a title contender AND a former Laker player sent his teams' best player to HIS former franchise to almost counter/make them a title contender? This is coming from a Laker fan by the way.

[Jigga]

Clearly, the NBA is fixed.

[MDC]

Holy hell, shut the up!

Jefferson is good, not great. I think we can all agree on that.

All you need to know is that the Bulls keep winning (15 straight at home) and the Celtics keep losing (2 games back)

[Rockstar Matt]

Holy hell, shut the up!

Jefferson is good, not great. I think we can all agree on that.

All you need to know is that the Bulls keep winning (15 straight at home) and the Celtics keep losing (2 games back)

I don't care too much for the Bulls, but I love it when Boston loses.

On another note, all everyone needs to know is that the Lakers keep winning (14-1 since the All-star break).

[cameroncrazie07]

Everyone needs to know that the Knicks can't stop losing. Don't wanna seem like I'm living and dying by them because to be honest with you me and my friends were out last night and we chose the tourney over that pathetic team.

[chakfu]

I don't really want to comment on what you guys are saying, but it's relevant. Has anybody noticed that a former Celtic player sent his teams' best player to his former team to make them a title contender AND a former Laker player sent his teams' best player to HIS former franchise to almost counter/make them a title contender? This is coming from a Laker fan by the way.

But you neglect to mention that the Celtics traded their best young prospect and 2nd best player in the trade, while the Lakers basically traded their inactive lists and the rights to a 2nd round pick. That's totally deceptive to compare the trades that way.

Faced with somewhat similar packages (Ellis/Biedrins, Bynum, Jefferson) he made the deal with his friend. That's only mildly shady at worst. Big difference from the Gasol deal...I know they had talked to Chicago and got lowballed, but still, Deng+Hinrich or whatever is better than nothing, but they went for nothing, I think partly out of spite. But they easily could have done the deal with some other team and at least gotten some better draft picks instead of 28/29; and most of all when they threw in the towel and traded him for cap space, they really broke an unwritten rule by handing them to the Lakers who were obviously pushed over to the top to dynasty status. It's a lot like trading within the division; and a lot different than sending KG to a 24 win Celtics team.

And actually Jerry West didn't have anything to do with the trade officially as he had left Memphis by then; I presume he had some influence though, but strictly on the facts you are mistaken.

But your post illustrates a point - Celtics vs Lakers! Both teams got giveaways from their buddies! Makes much better copy than "McHale trades aging star to friend for good but not great young prospect". I guess it's a fun but fictional symmetry - but in my opnion it severs to excuse a crime that IMO ruined the NBA and to an extent my life.

[Lights Out]

I guess it's a fun but fictional symmetry - but in my opnion it severs to excuse a crime that IMO ruined the NBA and to an extent my life.

[roxfan00]

This pretty much sums up the Knicks after they lost tonight to the Bobcats.

[cameroncrazie07]

This pretty much sums up the Knicks after they lost tonight to the Bobcats.

Yes, the Knicks "collapse" (I put it in quotes because they were never really good) this season has actually gotten pretty funny. At this point they might actually fall out of the playoffs. I mean they're getting blasted night in and night out by just awful teams. When youre getting blown out by teams like the: Pacers, Bucks, Bobcats, and the Pistons, you really have zero chance in the playoffs.

[cameroncrazie07]

So it looks like the Knicks will hold on here, after blowing a late lead in regulation. I nearly posted this then had to erase it like 10 minutes ago.

[loogodude90]

So the Wizards once again barely avoided tying a record of futility tonight. They now have 2 road wins this season, so they won't tie the 1990-91 Kings' 1-40 road record.

Also, they actually got their first season series sweep tonight, in their last chance of the season to get one. Against the Jazz of all teams. Never would have predicted that going into the season.

[knnhrvy16]

So the Wizards once again barely avoided tying a record of futility tonight. They now have 2 road wins this season, so they won't tie the 1990-91 Kings' 1-40 road record.

Also, they actually got their first season series sweep tonight, in their last chance of the season to get one. Against the Jazz of all teams. Never would have predicted that going into the season.

And on the other end of the country from where you're at, an angry, fuming fan is banging his aching head on his already well-beaten-over-time desk

In all seriousness though, congrats to your Wizards. They outplayed the Jazz through and through tonight, and I'm officially a believer in John Wall. Granted he didn't do so well in the second half, but 24 points in the first half is just insane. They had no answer for him at all during that half, and he has some of the fastest wheels I've ever seen.

I had already conceded the season about a week ago, but I think now it's official. The Jazz are absolutely done. It's time to look onward to the great opportunity (two lottery picks!) they have in the draft this summer.

[PittsburghSucks]

Damn, that Cavs win felt good!!!