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Sorry But I Have To Vent...


gregchait

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Let me begin by saying, this is the best message board on the planet.

I love visiting every day.

But one thing that I cannot stand, is when a newbie comes along and decides to do a concept for every single pro sports franchise in Microsoft Paint.

I am not a world class graphic artist by any means. I've gotten compliments on some of my concepts, while I've had others slammed.

But seriously... if you are reading this and you are one of those people that puts up 8 concepts a day and you can't even do a wordmark legibly... please... stop.

I hope this post isn't too negative, maybe some others out there feel the way that I do?

grc

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You are absolutely, without a doubt...100% wrong.

One of the things that makes this place so great is that newbies CAN post crude designs, get suggestions, develop thier skills, etc... Sometimes a series of bad designs will spark something that they can work with and build from.

Granted, there are a few people who keep posting new designs before working on fixing existing ones. Some need to focus, but telling them to stop posting is unacceptable.

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Everyone has to start from somewhere and this is probably the best forum for constructive criticism from people that actually have experience in graphic art.

I feel if you got the juices flowing and you're cranking out concept after concept, that is ok no matter what software you have. Crap is crap and the good stuff will stand out. Take Steve-O as an example, he turns out some pretty nice concepts and he's doing it with MS paint.

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Well, greg, all I can say is...WRONG!!!

Look, if a new member of the CCSLB community (I refuse to use "newbie"... God, how I hate the smug dismissiveness inherent in that label... aaaarrrrgggghhhh) wants to post to his/her heart's content, utilizing the cruelest tools imaginable, then that is their right. Why would you want to squelch their creative impulse? More importantly, who do you think you are that allows you to squelch their creative impulse?

If the creativity of new members is so beneath the standards of design that you demand, I've got a solution for you: don't open logo design threads started by new members. Spare your eyes the "horror" that you apparently feel is the hallmark of new-member design efforts.

Hey, if a new member is lacking in skills and asks for honest, straight-forward feedback, he/she is likely to get an earfull (eyefull?) of pointed criticism about their work. If they open themselves up to that, so be it. It's part and parcel of the process: submitting work... being told where it succeeds and where it is lacking... making the necessary adjustments... developing a skill set. No designer out here should feel that they can dictate the content of critiques that they ask for. Where is the honesty in that?

However, to simply dictate - as you attempt to do - that new members should stop posting their concepts is COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE.

Your post is, in fact, far "too negative".

Brian in Boston

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I agree with winters in buffalo & vicfurth on this one. If anything, the true gold of this site lay's within the new members concept drawings. You'll learn in time that this board promotes amatuer designers and their growth.

And to think... bs & I have rarely agreed on anything .

Nothing says consensus like that.

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Well, greg, all I can say is...WRONG!!!

Look, if a new member of the CCSLB community (I refuse to use "newbie"... God, how I hate the smug dismissiveness inherent in that label... aaaarrrrgggghhhh) wants to post to his/her heart's content, utilizing the cruelest tools imaginable, then that is their right. Why would you want to squelch their creative impulse? More importantly, who do you think you are that allows you to squelch their creative impulse?

If the creativity of new members is so beneath the standards of design that you demand, I've got a solution for you: don't open logo design threads started by new members. Spare your eyes the "horror" that you apparently feel is the hallmark of new-member design efforts.

Hey, if a new member is lacking in skills and asks for honest, straight-forward feedback, he/she is likely to get an earfull (eyefull?) of pointed criticism about their work. If they open themselves up to that, so be it. It's part and parcel of the process: submitting work... being told where it succeeds and where it is lacking... making the necessary adjustments... developing a skill set. No designer out here should feel that they can dictate the content of critiques that they ask for. Where is the honesty in that?

However, to simply dictate - as you attempt to do - that new members should stop posting their concepts is COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE.

Your post is, in fact, far "too negative".

Brian in Boston

Well I think that this is a very coherant form of my exact opinon.

While some of these concepts are uninspired, you have to respect that they try, they share the same love that we all do, and that they may be young, or not have the resources for illustrator.

Ive seen your stuff, its good. Your football concepts are well thought out, and fun to look at. That said, i think your a bit off base with your critique, but i have a feeling your not the only one who thinks this way.

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I can't say as I think that gregchaits comments are out of line nor far too negative.

I agree with his overall opinion, his reasoning, and his impulse to post what he did.

However, I think under further examination of what this board is (or should be) truly about, I feel like all commers should post their wares, and receive feedback. And here is why:

This is a group of logo enthusiasts, who can work (and often do) as a true community, helping to lift one another up... helping to improve, to learn, and to get better.

Do some people ignore the input? Yes. But we can't help that. Do some people lack the fundamental training to make solid design? Yes, but we can't help that. Do some (most?) people lack the tools to create their concepts in a legible, non-visually assaulting way? Yes, but we can't help that.

BUT, the thing we CAN help is folks who are really trying, taking input, learning from their mistakes, from our input, and from other designers on the board. SyPhi, for one example, makes incredibly specific comments and suggestions, taking the time and care to really examine a concept and helps with suggesting a specific small tweak, large change, or complete overhaul of a design. We can all learn two things from him: One - just a "nice job" or a "its not my favorite" doesn't do anyone any good. This isn't intended as a place to simple Simon Cowell people to death, it is supposed to be a place where people can get real feedback including suggestions. Two - the give/take between the designer and Sy help not only improve the design, but also the designer.

So overall... YES, greg, I despise 'art' done in Paint myself. It rarely looks even tolerable. But, this is not reason enough to 'kick off' these members who use it. It is our duty and privilege to help them improve, craft, refine... hell, even CREATE... their designs and their design skill. Keep the designs coming. I love to see new designs, new work, and new folks lending their hand at this crazy world of sports design.

...but if anyone wants to volunteer to buy everyone Illustrator, I'm all for it! :P

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As a "newbie" who has been deathly afraid to post my own "crude" designs until I get even close to the quality of some of the regular contributors of this board all I can say is.....

Damn! now I won't feel comfortable posting for even longer. :blink: I'm glad to see that most of the veterans have come out on the opposite side of Greg's platform, but that's exactly why most new members just cruise the board, enjoy others designs and keep their own crap to themselves.

I used to feel bad even giving a slightly negative opinion about a design since it's usually still better than what I can do at this point in my learning curve

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A little trick I use is if there is a link to the art, before deciding to click it, I skim the first two posts. If they say "well....that's a bit uninspired", or "Seen it 100 times before", I just move on. I'm sure lots of folks do that, and it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings if they are starting out.

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i just have to say is that we were ALL, every single one of us, new members to this board and that this community usually goes out of its way to make new people feel welcome.

NO ONE should be discouraged from posting whatever concept they have, whether it be done in illustrator, corel draw, ms paint, powerpoint, wordart, pencil, crayon, lite brite, etch-a-sketch, whatever. we all share a singular passion. that's why we are here, to help, critique, lend a hand, share our knowledge, put pukey smilies in our posts, what have you.....

to say that someone shouldn't post a design because their work is too crude is very poor form and really shouldn't have a place here. i've seen amazing teamwork here between designers with less skill, but great vision, working with designers with more skill and the results are fantastic for the most part.

to new members, just know that there are people here that are willing to help, support, tutor, and walk you through to help you become a better designer. don't be afraid to ask, this is usually a very selfless forum, usually all anyone asks for their help is a simple 'thanks'.

i would never want to see this community become an exclusionary place, don't be afraid to post your concepts. at the very least, i'll look at them.

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