Score This Play

[BBTV]

Many of us are playing in softball or other sports leagues this summer. Wacky things happen. Some members here are officials, others just know a lot of stuff. Figured we could ask questions here. More specifically, I figured I could ask a question here.

Here's the situation:

Runners on first and second, one out. Batter grounds into fielder's choice at second, runner advances to third. Shortstop throws ball back to pitcher, who, thinking that there were three outs, just allows the ball to hit the ground and roll toward the plate as he walks off the field. Runner at third tiptoes down the line, as the ball just sits in front of the plate. Someone from the opponents' bench realizes what is happening and yells for the umpire to grab the ball and make it a dead ball. As the umpire is advancing toward the ball, the runner from third brakes. Umpire backs off, catcher retrieves the ball, but runner slides under the tag and is declared safe.

Does the batter that hit into the FC get credited with an RBI?

[CC97]

I'd say no, the run scores because of an Error to the pitcher

[scottysprings]

The question I have is why would the umpire grab the ball? Was he just caught by surprise when someone yelled from the bench or is that a standard thing for umpires to kill the ball in your league? As far as scoring goes I'd say no, the batter doesn't get an RBI because the runner advanced to third on the play but scored because of defensive stupidity.

Edit- From the MLB rulebook:

The official scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run that scores when a fielder holds the ball or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, the official scorer should credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when the runner notices the misplay, the official scorer should credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice.

[dfwabel]

I'd say no, the run scores because of an Error to the pitcher

+1 I say no because the error by the P allowed the runner to score.

[cmm]

I think it would be batter reaches on a fielder's choice, runner on 2nd to 3rd, runner on 1st out. Error on the pitcher allowing the runner now on 3rd to score, no RBI.

I know official scorers aren't supposed to charge errors for mental mistakes, but there is a comment in Rule 10.12 (a)(1) that says:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2011/Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf

The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule

prescribes otherwise. A fielder?s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay?such as throwing the

ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher?s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs,

and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance?shall not be considered a mental mistake for

purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an

error.

[-kj]

Is this slow-pitch softball? If that's the case, why wasn't time called?

[scottysprings]

I think it would be batter reaches on a fielder's choice, runner on 2nd to 3rd, runner on 1st out. Error on the pitcher allowing the runner now on 3rd to score, no RBI.

I know official scorers aren't supposed to charge errors for mental mistakes, but there is a comment in Rule 10.12 (a)(1) that says:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2011/Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf

The official scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule

prescribes otherwise. A fielder?s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay?such as throwing the

ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher?s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs,

and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance?shall not be considered a mental mistake for

purposes of this rule and the official scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an

error.

That's why I was hesitant to call it an error, but that little note seems to deem it an E1. Nice catch.

[BBTV]

The question I have is why would the umpire grab the ball? Was he just caught by surprise when someone yelled from the bench or is that a standard thing for umpires to kill the ball in your league? As far as scoring goes I'd say no, the batter doesn't get an RBI because the runner advanced to third on the play but scored because of defensive stupidity.

Edit- From the MLB rulebook:

The official scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run that scores when a fielder holds the ball or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, the official scorer should credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when the runner notices the misplay, the official scorer should credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice.

I think the umpire was just going to grab the ball because he was caught off guard by the request and it had just been sitting there for a bit during the confusion. The pitcher had started to come back on to the field, so I think that without really thinking (which an umpire should always be doing), he was just going to call the play dead and return it to the returning pitcher. That's when I - I mean, the runner on third broke.

[scottysprings]

The question I have is why would the umpire grab the ball? Was he just caught by surprise when someone yelled from the bench or is that a standard thing for umpires to kill the ball in your league? As far as scoring goes I'd say no, the batter doesn't get an RBI because the runner advanced to third on the play but scored because of defensive stupidity.

Edit- From the MLB rulebook:

The official scorer's judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run that scores when a fielder holds the ball or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, the official scorer should credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when the runner notices the misplay, the official scorer should credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice.

I think the umpire was just going to grab the ball because he was caught off guard by the request and it had just been sitting there for a bit during the confusion. The pitcher had started to come back on to the field, so I think that without really thinking (which an umpire should always be doing), he was just going to call the play dead and return it to the returning pitcher. That's when I - I mean, the runner on third broke.

Yeah that's what I figured, smart play on your part.

[loogodude90]

Based on actual history, this reminds me of that MLB play from the 1990s where Larry Walker caught a fly ball out in RF, thought it was the third out, and gave the ball to a fan in the stands. Turns out it wasn't the third out, and a runner was tagging from 2nd to 3rd. Walker took the ball back from the fan, but it was too late and the runner had made it to third. I remember that this was treated as an error, so clearly if the runner had made it home rather than third, it would have been an error too, so no RBI.

So it's safe to say no RBI for the hitter in your case, either.

[McCall]

I'm a scorekeeper for the parks and rec slow pitch and girls fast pitch leagues. In the slow pitch we go pretty basic. I only write an error when it's how a player reached base. There's so many that it's not a big deal to get them down. My Dad taught us how to keep a book when I was like 9 so I've known for about 20 years but there are some things I'm a little fuzzy on. In this case the ball being dead or not is a separate issue from the RBI thing, so I'll skip over that. But as mentioned before, the batter reached on a fielders choice and the runner scored on an error.

[infrared41]

I'd say no, the run scores because of an Error to the pitcher

+1 I say no because the error by the P allowed the runner to score.

Make it three.

[slapshot]

I'd say no, the run scores because of an Error to the pitcher

+1 I say no because the error by the P allowed the runner to score.

Make it three.

Four. E-1 caused the run to score.

[Gothamite]

I think the umpire was just going to grab the ball because he was caught off guard by the request and it had just been sitting there for a bit during the confusion. The pitcher had started to come back on to the field, so I think that without really thinking (which an umpire should always be doing), he was just going to call the play dead and return it to the returning pitcher. That's when I - I mean, the runner on third broke.

That's some heads-up ball there. Well done.

[epper]

Is this slow-pitch softball? If that's the case, why wasn't time called?

Seeing as he said the runner "slid under the tag at home", I'd say no.

It's an error on the pitcher. Same as when goofs in MLB throw the ball into the stands before the 3rd out. It wouldn't be an RBI for the hitter.

[YessSir32]

I'd say no, the run scores because of an Error to the pitcher

+1 I say no because the error by the P allowed the runner to score.

Make it three.

Four. E-1 caused the run to score.

Five. Error on the pitcher.

[-kj]

Is this slow-pitch softball? If that's the case, why wasn't time called?

Seeing as he said the runner "slid under the tag at home", I'd say no.

Are you saying that runners can't slide in slow pitch?

[infrared41]

Is this slow-pitch softball? If that's the case, why wasn't time called?

Seeing as he said the runner "slid under the tag at home", I'd say no.

Are you saying that runners can't slide in slow pitch?

Believe it or not, in some leagues it's against the rules to slide. When I was living in upstate NY, I played in a slow pitch league where we were only allowed to slide into home. Needless to say, it was the worst league I ever played in.

[BBTV]

Cool. The fat slob that hit into the FC was blabbing about how he got the RBI and posted something on FB mentioning how he got the go ahead RBI. Probably because he stinks and just wanted to show the world that he actually did something... but he really didn't. It's petty, but I'm going to burst his bubble.

[infrared41]

Cool. The fat slob that hit into the FC was blabbing about how he got the RBI and posted something on FB mentioning how he got the go ahead RBI. Probably because he stinks and just wanted to show the world that he actually did something... but he really didn't. It's petty, but I'm going to burst his bubble.

Let's say for a second that he did get the RBI, the dude is seriously going to brag about driving in a run with a fielder's choice?