CCSLC Badges

[north dakota]

I agree 100% with the last post

[9erssteve]

@9erssteve:

So what you're saying is that newbs shouldn't publish their work because they aren't as skilled as the experienced members of this forum? I can't help but ask you how can someone develop without the C&C they need in the start of this hobby. Everyone needs somewhere to begin. As a newb myself who just finished their first concept I was so happy to see that people were trying to help me make my work look better and at the end I was thrilled to see that the guys here at CCSLC and I created this awesome concept. I realize it's frustrating for someone as experienced as you to see a bad concept, but that's the way us newbs start. What you should take away from there being a lot of newb concepts on the boards is that it's great to see more and more people get into this kind of thing. I think very few people put up concepts that they've worked 5 minutes on, and if they do, then don't comment on them and they won't get bumped.

I partially agree with you on too little logos being posted on CCSLC, I was a little surprised when I joined here that there aren't more logos put up. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't any. There are more uniform concepts currently made, but all I can say to that is that it's a current trend on the boards right now. I myself love uniform concepts and I'd want there to be even more of them posted (as well as more logos), so I don't really have an issue with this. I think you're also slightly over-exaggerating with only one new logo every week, or at least I've already seen three or four new ones in since I joined about 5 or 6 days ago. And besides, uniforms just as well as logos are part of sports design!

As for a ban on uniforms... That's not a smart idea. If a ban came into action than a lot of people who make good concepts and want to improve would be totally unable to create and share! If we want more logos, then we should definitely come up with another way than banning uniforms.

That's not what I'm saying at all! I'll happily comment on ANY design where I think the designer has put in some effort. I dont care if it's their 1st or their 1000th post/concept. I've tried to help and will continue to try to help any and all newb's who actually put thought and effort into what they're doing. As to not replying to the threads I feel haven't been thought through I already do that, but that wont solve the problem either as it wont stop the influx of other enthusiatic newbies commenting on it and saying it's the best thing they've ever seen (which it might well be as they've not been exposed to decent design before). And as a by-product the better designers on the board wont comment on the thread so the OP wont improve as fast and will continue to post the same type of threads as all they are getting is praise. So infact ignoring the problem has the potential to make things far worse.

Right now it's far to easy for people to join up download a template, drop colours in with the paint bucket tool and call it a design! You say it's a trend but trust me it WONT go out of fashion. There will always be new people signing up and they will always be enthusiastic to get their first concept up on the board and join in which is a good thing, but if this enthusiasm has an INSTANT outlet you can be sure 95% of users will take it, which means that cookie cutter template based concepts will be the first thing people post. It's become the norm and if things stay as they are that wont change.

Like I said I didn't make my comment to be popular, I knew it would piss people off but I said it because I believe it to be true. We've ALREADY lost one of the most talented designers this board has seen in recent years for EXACTLY the reasons I've stated so it's not like I'm just saying this to be contraversial, FAR FROM IT. I'm saying it because I want this place to survive! Plain and simple.

This used to be a community for people who loved logos to have a go themselves, learn from others and push themselves. Now it's a place where people play with templates, create far more (bad) uni's than logos and bitch at people who ask pertinent questions of designers who put in no effort. Like I said Uni's are fine as part of a BIGGER project but alone I feel they have no place here, they are essentially off topic, this is after all supposed to be a LOGO board, not a uni's board.

9erssteve

[elijas]

I still don't think that there are that many designs that are hurried. At least not so many that it'd be a huge issue (yet?). What you make it sound like is that there aren't any good designs on these boards, which just isn't true. Maybe this is a question of how high yours and my standards are, but I think most of the designs that go up on the boards have potential.

So, let me get this straight. First you say that you're frustrated with 5 minute designs getting bumped to the front. Then you say that it's bad if they don't get bumped? Correct me on this if I'm wrong. Furthermore, isn't it hard to give C&C to 5 minute designs? There isn't anything "real" to criticize, because it's not a complete finished design, I'm sure you know what I mean. All you can really say is "don't rush things, take your time and do a little research".

I don't think CCSLC just used to be a "community for people who loved logos to have a go themselves, learn from others and push themselves", I think it still is, especially that last part. Yes, there are less concept logos being put up (I did mention this before), but there still are some. I haven't been here very long but I have seen several completely new logos already. I'm pretty sure I told you all this before; see previous post.

Steve, I do see where you're coming from with all this. However, you said it yourself, not a lot of people agree with you on this. Not saying what's right is popular, I can't say for sure this overload of new total-waste-of-time-designers crap designers won't still come some day, but that day isn't today. Not even close to it. Again, maybe this is just a question of how high your standards are, but take a look at the boards now, for example. At least in my opinion there are several good concepts up, and also several that have good potential once the OP receives some good C&C. Looking at the boards today I don't see that many 5 minute designs up at the front.

And on a side note, how would I be sure 95% of people would take that outlet. Where are these statistics coming from? Maybe I just keep seeing the 5% on the boards that doesn't super-over-rush it, or so it would seem. Where are the rest 95%?

[GatorHunter]

@9erssteve

I understand what your saying, and I have not been a member here as long as you, but the impression i got out of your first, last paragraph, is that you think this site is dieing and that the badge concept that was brought up will not SAVE this site. So, your saying the site will soon go away unless something is done about it?

Next, Yes this is a SPORTS LOGO site, But logos and uniforms go hand in hand, you cant have one without the other. I know many members are not doing logos, but as you stated logos take more time, and more skill to make. Since most people want to be active in a community, they take the easy route, which is the uniforms. At least the site is active and not on the verge of dieing as you insinuated.

From your first to your last post in this thread, you have stated this concept has potential, but this is a logo site not a uni site, and given every way why this concept wont SAVE the site. Yes you may have hit the nail on the head, and this concept wont SAVE the site, but you have not given any input on how to make it work, how to change the concept, so it WILL SAVE the site.

I love football and always been a fan, I have designed a few websites and love graphic design. I found this site ans loved it, now i can combine the two. I first started here doing something i know, made some signature logos, so i can get inspired to do more. I then started a few Uniform Concepts because its the easiest, and i can get a sense of what makes a good sports design. I have read the forums, EVERYDAY, and found out the sports logos need to be simple, but unique. So now i am working on a logo design. what I'm trying to get at is, everyone has to start somewhere, and most people will start with the easiest and work themselves up to the hard things.

I agree with you on the lack of good C&C, "that's nice" or "that sucks" done not help anyone, but those are probably the members that don't know how to do it themselves, and you will get that on every forum, regardless what the forum is about, I have learned to ignore them and go on. Now the C&C that just says "work with your colors" "do research" "that jersey does not look right" all are just as bad as saying something sucks. A person just starting out in design, or just learning a program does not know what your talking about, you need to be more detailed. put something like "do research on the team history, find out what uniforms they have had in the past and doing something that has not been done before" or something like "those colors dont work well together, look at a color wheel" then tell them how to use it. These are the kinda things that help people out.

To get back on Topic, I have found that the Concept Forums is to cluttered with uniform concepts, and the logo concepts get lost in the forum. Maybe making a separate forums for uniform and logo concepts would be better, now the logo forums would stand out and wont get lost, if members see a forum just for logo concepts they might be more aped to make one themselves. Then implement the badges system for the uniforms, and have separate badges for logos.

[sparkychewbarky]

raysox states that his intention with the badge idea was to provide an incentive for designers to improve their game.

It's a nice idea that won't solve world hunger, or address most of the perceived problems on this board:

But so what? It'll be a positive addition.

I see 9erssteve's point, and the solution may lie in adding another concept category.

How about "Original Concepts" .

So, the tweaking of existing team and league uniforms, logos, etc., is covered under concepts.

New logos, uniforms, leagues would be filed under Original Concepts.

(A totally new logo for an existing team could go under Original Concepts.)

Part of the problem right now, is just the sheer volume of posts, which is a by-product of quick-n-easy templates.

It is a little discouraging to put a lot of effort into a concept, only to have it fly off the first page in a few short hours.

The volume, under my above idea, would now be spread out over two categories.

This isn't a newby vs. vet thing either, although it seems that the younger folk are more guilty of paint-bucket-tool "designing".

However, I recently competed in a jersey design contest where the co-winners were 2 senior designers who didn't necessarily have the best design,

but very definitely had well presented concepts (they had great templates}.

Templates have almost become a necessary evil. They do make it too "easy", but they definitely work in the concept-execution-presentation process.

I've seen a lot of "sows' ears turned into silk purses" lately.

[9erssteve]

I still don't think that there are that many designs that are hurried. At least not so many that it'd be a huge issue (yet?). What you make it sound like is that there aren't any good designs on these boards, which just isn't true. Maybe this is a question of how high yours and my standards are, but I think most of the designs that go up on the boards have potential.

So, let me get this straight. First you say that you're frustrated with 5 minute designs getting bumped to the front. Then you say that it's bad if they don't get bumped? Correct me on this if I'm wrong. Furthermore, isn't it hard to give C&C to 5 minute designs? There isn't anything "real" to criticize, because it's not a complete finished design, I'm sure you know what I mean. All you can really say is "don't rush things, take your time and do a little research".

I don't think CCSLC just used to be a "community for people who loved logos to have a go themselves, learn from others and push themselves", I think it still is, especially that last part. Yes, there are less concept logos being put up (I did mention this before), but there still are some. I haven't been here very long but I have seen several completely new logos already. I'm pretty sure I told you all this before; see previous post.

Steve, I do see where you're coming from with all this. However, you said it yourself, not a lot of people agree with you on this. Not saying what's right is popular, I can't say for sure this overload of new total-waste-of-time-designers crap designers won't still come some day, but that day isn't today. Not even close to it. Again, maybe this is just a question of how high your standards are, but take a look at the boards now, for example. At least in my opinion there are several good concepts up, and also several that have good potential once the OP receives some good C&C. Looking at the boards today I don't see that many 5 minute designs up at the front.

And on a side note, how would I be sure 95% of people would take that outlet. Where are these statistics coming from? Maybe I just keep seeing the 5% on the boards that doesn't super-over-rush it, or so it would seem. Where are the rest 95%?

No offense intended but you've been a member less than a month, that's no reflection on your talent or anything else, but it does kinda make it hard for you to comment on what came before. You weren't here two years ago when guys like Davidson or SigmaKappa were posting outstanding designs with regularity.

Yes there are still some good concepts posted today but to be honest and again I dont mean any offense when I say this what is now top tier stuff with regards comparision with the rest of the work published would have been second tier when I joined. The vast majority of experienced and quality designers have already jumped this ship, and if that's not a sign that something is severely rotten in concept town I dont know what is!

Like I said I'm not saying this to be popular, I'm saying it cos it NEEDS to be said.

9erssteve

[9erssteve]

@9erssteve

I understand what your saying, and I have not been a member here as long as you, but the impression i got out of your first, last paragraph, is that you think this site is dieing and that the badge concept that was brought up will not SAVE this site. So, your saying the site will soon go away unless something is done about it?

Next, Yes this is a SPORTS LOGO site, But logos and uniforms go hand in hand, you cant have one without the other. I know many members are not doing logos, but as you stated logos take more time, and more skill to make. Since most people want to be active in a community, they take the easy route, which is the uniforms. At least the site is active and not on the verge of dieing as you insinuated.

From your first to your last post in this thread, you have stated this concept has potential, but this is a logo site not a uni site, and given every way why this concept wont SAVE the site. Yes you may have hit the nail on the head, and this concept wont SAVE the site, but you have not given any input on how to make it work, how to change the concept, so it WILL SAVE the site.

I love football and always been a fan, I have designed a few websites and love graphic design. I found this site ans loved it, now i can combine the two. I first started here doing something i know, made some signature logos, so i can get inspired to do more. I then started a few Uniform Concepts because its the easiest, and i can get a sense of what makes a good sports design. I have read the forums, EVERYDAY, and found out the sports logos need to be simple, but unique. So now i am working on a logo design. what I'm trying to get at is, everyone has to start somewhere, and most people will start with the easiest and work themselves up to the hard things.

I agree with you on the lack of good C&C, "that's nice" or "that sucks" done not help anyone, but those are probably the members that don't know how to do it themselves, and you will get that on every forum, regardless what the forum is about, I have learned to ignore them and go on. Now the C&C that just says "work with your colors" "do research" "that jersey does not look right" all are just as bad as saying something sucks. A person just starting out in design, or just learning a program does not know what your talking about, you need to be more detailed. put something like "do research on the team history, find out what uniforms they have had in the past and doing something that has not been done before" or something like "those colors dont work well together, look at a color wheel" then tell them how to use it. These are the kinda things that help people out.

To get back on Topic, I have found that the Concept Forums is to cluttered with uniform concepts, and the logo concepts get lost in the forum. Maybe making a separate forums for uniform and logo concepts would be better, now the logo forums would stand out and wont get lost, if members see a forum just for logo concepts they might be more aped to make one themselves. Then implement the badges system for the uniforms, and have separate badges for logos.

No what I'm saying is the site will remain but the best designers will leave. It's already happening! Just because the site is BUSY doesn't mean it's healthy. You can eat McDonalds once in a while but eat it everyday and it'll kill you! Same with the board you can have people post everyday but if they are posting rushed concepts, cookie cutter template changes or ideas people have seen a million times before the boards will not be as useful as they used to be.

The reason this concerns me is not that we wont see great concepts anymore, it's that those who join now and want to improve will not have the same resources to tap into. They wont have access to members who've been there and done it, and KNOW what they're talking about and are willing to give USEFULL advice. There used to be PROFESSIONAL sports logo designers post here when I joined, now they're gone! It's a cold hard fact. When people like that start to leave you know something has to change, but the trouble is it seems no one wants to even ask WHY they're leaving nevermind make the big/difficult changes necessary to keep top level talent here.

You're right you cant have a sports uniform without a logo, but with that said and I'll say it again this is a LOGO CONCEPT FORUM what place does a new uni that uses a NON CONCEPT LOGO have? It's effectively off topic if you stop and think about it.

You say make a seperate forum for uni's but the truth is we had a vote here ages ago about doing the same for sigs and avatars which have cluttered up the boards for years and despite the overwhelming majority of people saying they thought removing sigs and avatars from the concepts forum was a GOOD IDEA, nothing was done! So while yeah putting uni's in a seperate forum might help I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening anytime soon if at all.

You're right I dont give any advice on how I think the concept of merit badges can save the site, and that's because I dont think that in isolation merit badges alone can or will save the site. There's nothing more I can add other than personal opinion with regards how the badges look, the theory behind the plan has been pretty thoroughly discussed, and I cant see how it could be improved upon. But even with perfect execution I dont think they alone will be enough, they'd be a useful and helpful tool along side other moves and measures, but alone I dont see them making that big of a difference. The promise of a badge isn't going to temp back the quality designers we've lost. Cleaning out the clutter and getting the boards back to what they used to be might, but even that's a long shot.

9erssteve

[GatorHunter]

Ok, this is all my opinion, and what i have learned from all other type of sites on the net, they are all the same, mostly with the graphics, and design sites. all of your so called PROFESSIONALS were newbies at one time or another, we all are. The difference is they have honed there skills and are probably very good and now everyone thinks they are the TOP TALENT. Now that the TOP TALENT thinks they are better than everyone else, they dont care to help anyone else. All the 5 minute concepts you talk about may have taken that person 30 min or longer, just because you pose the skills to do it in 5 min, they dont. So all your TOP TALENT is who killed the site because they did not want to take the time to help the newbies.

The uniform concepts that i have made, other members may think that "oh i can do that in 5 min" yes, because you have been doing it probably for years, in actuality, each one of my concepts have taken no less than 2 hours each, some even longer, because i have a idea in my head, once drawn out, i dont like it, i change it, still dont like it, and continue to change it till its something i like. so your 5 min concept takes me hours, and the people who dog out the less experienced member because of there 5 min concepts are the one in the wrong.

[9erssteve]

Ok, this is all my opinion, and what i have learned from all other type of sites on the net, they are all the same, mostly with the graphics, and design sites. all of your so called PROFESSIONALS were newbies at one time or another, we all are. The difference is they have honed there skills and are probably very good and now everyone thinks they are the TOP TALENT. Now that the TOP TALENT thinks they are better than everyone else, they dont care to help anyone else. All the 5 minute concepts you talk about may have taken that person 30 min or longer, just because you pose the skills to do it in 5 min, they dont. So all your TOP TALENT is who killed the site because they did not want to take the time to help the newbies.

The uniform concepts that i have made, other members may think that "oh i can do that in 5 min" yes, because you have been doing it probably for years, in actuality, each one of my concepts have taken no less than 2 hours each, some even longer, because i have a idea in my head, once drawn out, i dont like it, i change it, still dont like it, and continue to change it till its something i like. so your 5 min concept takes me hours, and the people who dog out the less experienced member because of there 5 min concepts are the one in the wrong.

Ok first off, chill I wasn't having a go at you or your posts so no need to get so defensive. As to how long it takes to complete a concept go check out mine I've been working on an AFL thread for OVER A YEAR and only gotten two and a half teams done! Hell it's taken me so long to do that ONE of those teams NO LONGER EXISTS! So speed number of posts etc etc have nothing to do with. Anyone with an ounce of creative talent can tell when someone has put thought and effort into a project and when they haven't.

As to your assertions about the quality of "professionals" on here I'm talking about people who'd done projects for the NFL, NCAA, Minor League baseball, and could BACK UP THOSE CLAIMS, I'm not talking about internet posers! The vast majority of them were MORE THAN HAPPY to help out Newbies! For crying out loud most of the newbies on here are using Davidson's Revo Helmet template every other day and one even reposted it offering to send it to others without giving it the proper credit! So believe me when I tell you they WERE NOT THE PROBLEM and are NOT reponsible for the issues going on in the concept forum right now.

You're right we all have to start somewhere and I'm 100% FINE WITH THAT, I had to start somewhere myself, that somewhere was about 25 years ago on a sheet of paper, so I've been there and done that, but it doesn't mean I cant improve and it doesn't mean I'm not willing to help others just like a great many other of the better designers in here.

But when genuine pro's used to frequent these boards AND HELP PEOPLE now DONT you have to stop and ask WHY?

And it's pretty clear to me the biggest difference in the boards now and when I joined is the fact that the boards are more of a fashion show than a testing ground for logos. You can disagree all you like, but on the grounds you've only been registered a month I think it's pretty safe to say that even if you'd been lurking a while before joining chances are you only found this site n the last 12 months so you're really not in a position to argue the point.

So like I said go take a time out, I wasn't being literal when I said 5 mins it was a metaphor for poorly thought out sloppy attempts with no real thought put into them, while beginners mistakes are fine, laziness lack of effort or thought or just colouring a template for the sake of posting something is pretty much inexcusable Newbie or not.

9erssteve

[GatorHunter]

i was not upset, and i was chill till now, the Vets of this site, including you, always say about u dont have enough post to say , post count dont mean , your a :censored:ing idiot. I started drawing in elementary school, 30 years ago, just because i just joined the site dont mean . the reason this site is going to is people like u who think new members cant say because they are new. so you, your little site, cya. u can ban my ass, because im not posting again anyways.

[piratesfan16]

Ok, here's my thoughts:

With the current argument right now being "Newbs who constantly join and post poorly thought-out, unoriginal concepts are ruining this site" vs. "We all have to start somewhere right?", I would like to admit to everyone here that I posted this concept.

It's a sloppy, poorly executed concept. I would also like to add that I do not intend to be a graphics designer. I am working be either a baseball player or an engineer. I post concepts and help others on here because I'm bored and I want to let my imagination run free. I can read your mind right now. There's a red flag that just shot up. At least I have the integrity to admit it. However, does that make me a bad designer because I don't strive to make a living out of it? No, because I am posting concepts with the mindset of understanding what experienced designers on here are capable of. That pushes me to just get better and better. It's that competitor in all of us that gives us the incentive to get better

THAT'S why this badge competition is going to work. It's a fix(could be temporary, but could be permanant, so we'll let time tell the story) of a leakage of newbs that don't understand the hard-working tradition that Davidson and AAO must have brought to this site.

That why one of my goals in my MLB series is to try to post as much ORIGINAL content as I can. I am strictly a MS Paint designer. I know Inkscape is out there, but I'm still learning and very much a newb. That's not an excuse, that's the truth. I've got other things in my life that needs tending to. That doesn't mean I'm not trying everyday to keep this site healthy(like 9erssteve put it). It's not dying, but it could always be healthier. I only have a couple followers in my MLB series, but that's all I need to keep pushing out concepts.

However, I am still waiting to get that once comment:

An experienced user on here to write "Nice job".

That would make my day. So to all of the newbs reading this:

Don't get discouraged when someone says "Don't use paint as an excuse", or "Put some more time and effort in". Take it from someone who's been there. They are telling the truth. Sure you'll get a little defensive(I did), but write back something to the effect of "Ok, thanks". You'll get better. Just lurk around a while and work hard on a concept. That time you put in will be very rewarding. Even if they don't like it, they'll appreciate the work you put in. It's human nature to sense that someone put time into a project. They can tell.

[JayJaxon]

I guess the truth hurts.

9erssteve, you are absolutely right. There are some guys on here that put in max effort on everything they do and take the criticism like a pro. A lot of these guys are new (or let's just say newer than me) But it's also true that there are tons of 'concepts' here that was given no thought and then the guys rage quit (see above) when people disagree with their opinions. When I got here, the concepts section was the strongest part of this site.

9erssteve said it best, it doesn't matter your post count and never did. Raysox, the very guy that started this thread was new once too and he worked hard to become a very respected member. His work is given proper attention because if he posts something you know he put effort into it. If you develop that reputation it will carry over in everything you do. But if you start out with a bad attitude and not willing to work hard to get better, then what do you expect?

[9erssteve]

i was not upset, and i was chill till now, the Vets of this site, including you, always say about u dont have enough post to say , post count dont mean , your a :censored:ing idiot. I started drawing in elementary school, 30 years ago, just because i just joined the site dont mean . the reason this site is going to is people like u who think new members cant say because they are new. so you, your little site, cya. u can ban my ass, because im not posting again anyways.

LOL talk about an overreaction!

I've NEVER said anyone doesn't have enough posts to contribute, I dont have the authority to decide what "enough" posts would be and it's irelevant anyway, if someone has an opinion and can back it up with more than "thats cool" I'm willing to listen no matter when they joined or how many posts they've made!

All I did was give my opinion on what could be done to improve the site, that is try to make it more logo focussed again, by reducing the number of generic uni threads we've seen crop up in the last year. I said NOTHING about stopping Newbies posting. If you dont agree that's fine but try to civil wont you.

When dealing with ANYONE ONE on here I've only ever tried to offer HELPFUL CONSTRUCITVE criticism when I give it, infact I was INVITED to join this thread by it's creator because thats HIS opinion of the C&C's I leave.

I took issue with you blaming the genuine pro's that used to frequent these boards for the current mess because you never knew them, so how can you claim they were the problem? News falsh potty mouth EVERYONE starts learning to draw in elementary school it doesn't make you special. If you really did start elementary school over 30 years ago congratulations on not losing touch with your inner child cos that outburst was a tantrum a 3 year old would be proud of.

Truth be told if that's how you're going to react to other peoples views and opinions I for one am glad you wont be posting here again, we dont need people who aren't open to others opinions, and go off on childish tantrums at the drop of a hat.

You dont agree with my idea to improve things that's fine. Like I said it was never gonna please everyone, but my idea DID NOT involve excluding ANYONE, not even Newbies as you claim it would only have encouraged people to redirect their creative energy towards logos. If you dont agree so be it, but at least act like an adult about it.

9erssteve

[sparkychewbarky]

Well....So.....

How are those badges comin' along?

[raysox]

I mean, is it worth not trying? No one knows how this is gonna go just yet. We can try my idea, and see if it's positive.

We could have trending badges, so GET YOUR FLORIDA MARLINS BADGE BEFORE THE NEW LOGO COMES OUT.

[piratesfan16]

I mean, is it worth not trying? No one knows how this is gonna go just yet. We can try my idea, and see if it's positive.

We could have trending badges, so GET YOUR FLORIDA MARLINS BADGE BEFORE THE NEW LOGO COMES OUT.

Too late, haha. Check the New Marlins Uniforms thread.

[9erssteve]

I mean, is it worth not trying? No one knows how this is gonna go just yet. We can try my idea, and see if it's positive.

We could have trending badges, so GET YOUR FLORIDA MARLINS BADGE BEFORE THE NEW LOGO COMES OUT.

It's certainly worth trying. It's a good idea, anything that encourages people to put more effort into what they're doing is worthwhile and if by rewarding people it pushes them to try their hand at logos sooner then even better. Worst case scenario things stay the same, your idea wont make things any worse in my opinion so I say go for it!

9erssteve

[raysox]

I mean, is it worth not trying? No one knows how this is gonna go just yet. We can try my idea, and see if it's positive.

We could have trending badges, so GET YOUR FLORIDA MARLINS BADGE BEFORE THE NEW LOGO COMES OUT.

Too late, haha. Check the New Marlins Uniforms thread.

But officially though. I'm gonna do a concept anyway.

[Lights Out]

As far as the whole uniform concept controversy goes, as someone who mainly does uniforms, I don't understand why it's such a bad thing. I put a ton of thought into every single uniform I make, and try to make the best-executed concept I could possibly make every time I open Photoshop. I make sure that there's a reason for every design choice I make. If I don't feel like I need to change the logo to fit in to the design I'm making, why should I have to make a change anyway for the sake of change? The implication that because of this, I apparently don't put "enough" effort into my work actually pisses me off and makes me wonder why I continue to post concepts.

Additionally, I think 9erssteve is forgetting that, for most people on here, this is a hobby that we do in our downtime when we're feeling creative. I'm not a good drawer, but I don't have the time or the desire to take classes on general drawing and digital drawing just for the sake of the Concepts forum. I think it's unfair to expect professional-looking logos out of decidedly unprofessional designers.

And even though this is a sports logos website, we discuss uniforms just as much, so I'm not really buying that argument.

[bucknut40]

Ok, this is all my opinion, and what i have learned from all other type of sites on the net, they are all the same, mostly with the graphics, and design sites. all of your so called PROFESSIONALS were newbies at one time or another, we all are. The difference is they have honed there skills and are probably very good and now everyone thinks they are the TOP TALENT. Now that the TOP TALENT thinks they are better than everyone else, they dont care to help anyone else. All the 5 minute concepts you talk about may have taken that person 30 min or longer, just because you pose the skills to do it in 5 min, they dont. So all your TOP TALENT is who killed the site because they did not want to take the time to help the newbies.

The uniform concepts that i have made, other members may think that "oh i can do that in 5 min" yes, because you have been doing it probably for years, in actuality, each one of my concepts have taken no less than 2 hours each, some even longer, because i have a idea in my head, once drawn out, i dont like it, i change it, still dont like it, and continue to change it till its something i like. so your 5 min concept takes me hours, and the people who dog out the less experienced member because of there 5 min concepts are the one in the wrong.

I like all of your work GatorHunter, I enjoy seeing everyones work. I am in college for Broadcasting but my love for logos and uniforms has been a passion of mine since i was about 6 or 7, and now 11 years later I find this site and it's honestly a dream come true to find other people who share my passion. Even though its a hobby for me unlike a profession for others. I apreciate it when someone takes the time out of there day to look at my work and give me feedback, even though I will never be as good as the people on here but I do pride myself on improving. It hurts me to see all these people fighting on here because they think there better than other people and now you guys may have lost a really talented designer in GatorHunter. I plan to continue posting my concepts and I hope all these other people can get over the stupid egos and everyone get along. In the end were all here sharing the same love.