MLB Award Season 2011

[Lights Out]

I'll give Bautista the edge overall as well as at the plate, but Ellsbury wins on the bases and defensively, so while push comes to shove I'll say Bautista over Ellsbury, I regard the two as being almost equal.

Yeah, Ellsbury is far better in the field, but while I value defense highly, I value offensive proficiency and creating runs for your team on a consistent basis even more highly. In that criteria, Bautista is well ahead of Ellsbury.

HR: Bautista (43) vs. Ellsbury (32)

OBP: Bautista (.447) vs. Ellsbury (.376)

OPS: Bautista (1.056) vs. Ellsbury (.928)

wRC: Bautista (139) vs. Ellsbury (132)

wRC+ (park and league adjusted): Bautista (181) vs. Ellsbury (150)

Bautista makes less outs, creates more runs (especially when you weight the stats to adjust for park and league), and judging from his home run total, he can change the game with a single swing. That kind of production is invaluable to a team's success, and Bautista is so good at it, I'm willing to look past his less-than-stellar defense. JoeyBats got robbed.

[NEW.ERA]

Can I see the stats that say Jose has less than steller defense?

[pmoehrin]

I'll give Bautista the edge overall as well as at the plate, but Ellsbury wins on the bases and defensively, so while push comes to shove I'll say Bautista over Ellsbury, I regard the two as being almost equal.

Yeah, Ellsbury is far better in the field, but while I value defense highly, I value offensive proficiency and creating runs for your team on a consistent basis even more highly. In that criteria, Bautista is well ahead of Ellsbury.

HR: Bautista (43) vs. Ellsbury (32)

OBP: Bautista (.447) vs. Ellsbury (.376)

OPS: Bautista (1.056) vs. Ellsbury (.928)

wRC: Bautista (139) vs. Ellsbury (132)

wRC+ (park and league adjusted): Bautista (181) vs. Ellsbury (150)

Bautista makes less outs, creates more runs (especially when you weight the stats to adjust for park and league), and judging from his home run total, he can change the game with a single swing. That kind of production is invaluable to a team's success, and Bautista is so good at it, I'm willing to look past his less-than-stellar defense. JoeyBats got robbed.

Bautsita's definately get the edge at the plate, no question about it.

He also players a bigger offensive position though which you have to take into account. If its corner outfielders were talking about Bautsita wins hands down, but the fact that Ellsbury's a center fielder helps his cause in the offensive department.

Again I would take Baustita over Ellsbury, but I'm not going to say its a slam dunk.

[TFoA]

NotGraphs found the Thanksgiving Grinch.

[Lights Out]

Can I see the stats that say Jose has less than steller defense?

-18 total zone rating, -8.6 ultimate zone rating, and -10.6 UZR/150 in the outfield, -4.8 fielding WAR overall. He simply does not have good range on defense.

[pmoehrin]

Can I see the stats that say Jose has less than steller defense?

-18 total zone rating, -8.6 ultimate zone rating, and -10.6 UZR/150 in the outfield, -4.8 fielding WAR overall. He simply does not have good range on defense.

He's not great, but I've seen worse numbers. He's bad but I wouldn't call him a liability out in the field. Someone like Lance Berkman is a liability.

I rather have Bautista playing third, because he does have good reactions and a good arm, but that's not going to happen with Brett Lawrie down there, nor should it. That kid is going to be a superstar.

[Lights Out]

And Derek Jeter should simply be referred to as The Liability.

[HedleyLamarr]

It's "Most Valuable Player", not "Player with Best Stats".

Unless a certain player has unworldly numbers that are far and away better than everyone else, it's awfully hard to tell me that a player on a non-playoff team was all that "valuable".

[crashcarson15]

Which is also why Mr. Ellsbury didn't win.

FTR, Bautista had a real nice glove over at third the two times I saw him play there this year.

[HedleyLamarr]

It's also difficult to defend why a guy that played in 34 games out of an 162 game schedule is the "Most Valuable".....

[pmoehrin]

It's "Most Valuable Player", not "Player with Best Stats".

Unless a certain player has unworldly numbers that are far and away better than everyone else, it's awfully hard to tell me that a player on a non-playoff team was all that "valuable".

I think there's something to that. I think the MVP should go to the best player in the league, but when its a flip of a coin situation like you've had in the past, I'll give it to the guy who played on the better team.

I've definately seen it go both ways. I would have given the '88 MVP to Will Clark over Kirk Gibson (and Orel over both of them), and would have given the '87 NL MVP to Ozzie over Andre Dawson.

[epper]

Can't agree more with this analysis of the Verlander Discussion: Verlander's Perceived Value

Bautista got hosed.

[Milo Meningocele]

Verlander (or no pitcher for that matter) should even be eligible for the MVP. Playing once every 5 days does not make you the most valuable player in the league. He was a unanimous Cy Young winner, and thats what he deserves, thats why the Cy Young award exists. Nothing against Verlander, I like him as a player but telling me that his once every 5 days is better than Granderson's 40 HRs or Ellsbury's 40/40 season is just not true.

This is not true. As someone who watched almost every Tigers game last year, I can tell you Verlander affected not only the games he pitched in, but also games he wasn't in. For example, say you are managing a team who has Verlander scheduled to start the next day. You know JV is going to give you at least 8 innings of 1-2 run baseball tomorrow, thus you can afford to use up as much of your bullpen as you want today. The bullpen is also rested and fresh for the game after a Verlander start too.

Now flip it around. If your going to play against Verlander tomorrow, it's going to put a lot more urgency on winning today because you know it's going to be alot tougher tomorrow.

Also, what does it matter if Justin Verlander plays once every 5 days if he is directly responsible for 20-24 outs in that game. This is a quote from Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe:

"Verlander faced 969 batters this season. Jacoby Ellsbury, by way of comparison, had 729 plate appearances. Obviously, a position player faces more of a challenge physically playing every day in the field. But the idea that a starting pitcher contributes so much less that he should be excluded from the ballot is false."

On another note, Jim Ingraham from Cleveland was the only voter to leave Verlander off the ballot. Sheldon Ocker of Cleveland had him 8th, and Evan Grant of Dallas Morning News gave first-place vote to Michael Young. Pathetic.

Another thing that's often come up in discussing Verlander's value, is how many times he put the Tigers right back on track, after one or more previous losses. In fact, multiple voters seemed to highly regard just that, as stated here.

[infrared41]

For what it's worth, my idea of the MVP is the guy whose team wouldn't be where they are without him. For example, do the Tigers win the AL Central without Verlander? I'd say no. Does Toronto still finish fourth without Bautista? I'd say yes. The best example I can come up with for my "MVP system" is 1995. Mo Vaughn won the award over Albert Belle despite the fact that Belle had better numbers than Vaughn that season. My argument was that the Red Sox probably don't make the playoffs without Vaughn. The Indians still easily win the AL Central without Albert Belle.

Anyway, my point is that I think there's a pretty good argument for Verlander being the MVP. It is after all the Most Valuable Player award, not the best offensive stats award.

[Lights Out]

Toronto would probably be neck-and-neck with the O's for last place without Bautista this year. His offensive production and game-changing ability were absolutely valuable for the Jays.

[crashcarson15]

But in the end, that wouldn't have changed their end result of missing the playoffs.

[Lights Out]

But in the end, that wouldn't have changed their end result of missing the playoffs.

Ellsbury came in second and missed the playoffs. And the idea that you can't be valuable and miss the playoffs is beyond outdated. A-Rod won the MVP on a last-place Rangers team in 2003, and guess what? The world is still intact.

[See Red]

Ellsbury put up numbers that one would expect more from an elite corner player while playing CF and all the while being, at worst, the second best outfielder in the league. He lead the league in WAR and had the best season by a center fielder since Ken Griffey Jr. when he was a unanimous MVP winner. The difference between Bautista, a below-average to average defensive player, and Ellsbury, an elite defensive center fielder, in the field more than makes up for the difference in numbers at the plate.

Not to mention, Ellsbury played meaningful baseball games down the stretch and batted .358/.400/.667/1.067 with 8 HR's and 22 RBI's in September.

[Gary]

Hate to Break into Bautista vs Verlander vs Ellsbury, but Ryan Braun has been named National League MVP

[TFoA]

Ryan Braun wins the NL MVP. Personally, I would've given it to Kemp after the year that he had (damn near 40-40, beastly offensive stats, good defensive performance), but Braun wasn't a bad choice at all. Couldn't have gone wrong with either. Congrats to Braun!