Your 2012 National Hockey Lockout Thread

[IceCap]

To give you more of an idea of how no one in America cares about hockey. Not even hockey markets. Read this caption about the Jacksonville Jaguars. This list is from Forbes. The 50 most valuable franchises in sports. The Jaguars made the list. Not one NHL team did. That's right. The Jaguars are more valuable than the Toronto Maple Leafs

http://www.forbes.co...nville-jaguars/

"The Jags are the NFL’s least valuable team, but still worth more than any NBA or NHL team, as well as all but five MLB teams."

Admiral is right. They should have made the North more valuable before moving to markets like Miami.

Well yes, that much is incredibly clear now. The "Grow the Game" stuff was equal parts 90s housing boom and well intentioned but misguided naivety.

As for the Jags being worth more then the Leafs, I'd take that assumption with a grain of salt. The Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan sold 66% of the Leafs to Bell and Rogers for $1.32 billion. Khan bought the entirety of the Jaguars for $760 million.

[The_Admiral]

"The Jags are the NFL’s least valuable team, but still worth more than any NBA or NHL team, as well as all but five MLB teams."

Admiral is right. They should have made the North more valuable before moving to markets like Miami.

That's because they're the beneficiaries of an astronomical national television contract. Four of them, actually! All they have to do is exist and they make $64 million a year off the TV deals.

[Island_Style]

"The Jags are the NFL’s least valuable team, but still worth more than any NBA or NHL team, as well as all but five MLB teams."

Admiral is right. They should have made the North more valuable before moving to markets like Miami.

That's because they're the beneficiaries of an astronomical national television contract. Four of them, actually! All they have to do is exist and they make $64 million a year off the TV deals.

Indeed. why? Because of popularity of the sport. That is my point.

[The_Admiral]

Okay. But I can't tell if you're agreeing with me on maximizing the potential of their existing markets before recklessly expanding or if you're being sarcastic.

[Island_Style]

Okay. But I can't tell if you're agreeing with me on maximizing the potential of their existing markets before recklessly expanding or if you're being sarcastic.

No, I am totally agreeing with you. Just about every American market has their hockey team last in popularity. If it only has a cult following there, what the hell makes you think it will work in the south? Going to Miami where the Dolphins struggle to sell. Most of the US' population is in cold areas. If it were popular there, it would be popular in the national scene. I'm calling out hockey/NHL here. My original point was lost, though. A rival league could come in and take out the NHL right now if it had the right investors. The NHL isn't the established brand the hardcore fans wants to make them out to be.

And I like to think we discuss with a little ribbing thrown in there. I like to poke fun but I am not a single out jerk.....except to other jerks....lol

[IceCap]

A rival league could come in and take out the NHL right now if it had the right investors. The NHL isn't the established brand the hardcore fans wants to make them out to be.

In the US, maybe. There's no way a team could compete with the Leafs in Toronto or the Canucks in Vancouver. Canada remains the anchor of the NHL, and you're not displacing the NHL in Canada. Which is why I find the idea of the Canadian teams and viable American teams leaving to form a sort of premier league a more likely idea, and not even that is very likely.

[Island_Style]

A rival league could come in and take out the NHL right now if it had the right investors. The NHL isn't the established brand the hardcore fans wants to make them out to be.

In the US, maybe. There's no way a team could compete with the Leafs in Toronto or the Canucks in Vancouver. Canada remains the anchor of the NHL, and you're not displacing the NHL in Canada. Which is why I find the idea of the Canadian teams and viable American teams leaving to form a sort of premier league a more likely idea, and not even that is very likely.

True, but if Canada didn't need American markets, you would have you own league. Instead you got a league where there are two teams in Florida.

[IceCap]

A rival league could come in and take out the NHL right now if it had the right investors. The NHL isn't the established brand the hardcore fans wants to make them out to be.

In the US, maybe. There's no way a team could compete with the Leafs in Toronto or the Canucks in Vancouver. Canada remains the anchor of the NHL, and you're not displacing the NHL in Canada. Which is why I find the idea of the Canadian teams and viable American teams leaving to form a sort of premier league a more likely idea, and not even that is very likely.

True, but if Canada didn't need American markets, you would have you own league. Instead you got a league where there are two teams in Florida.

Not all that accurate a statement. You yourself admitted that the expansion into Florida was a mistake. The Canadian teams certainly wouldn't be hurting financially if the Lightning and Panthers didn't exist. Hell, they'd be better off, considering that they pay to keep the Coyotes afloat. The pro-Coyotes crowd likes to bring up how vital the Phoenix market is to the NHL's "national footprint" yet a team in a small prairie town in Canada pays to keep them alive. How weird is that?

I never said that the Canadian teams could exist without American teams. That's why my hypothetical North American premier league includes the seven Canadian teams and the viable American organizations. I actually played around with the idea earlier, and the makeup of this hypothetical league would have a majority of its franchises in the States.

At this point, though, I've spent to much time talking about something that will never happen.

[Island_Style]

You are missing my point, Cap. The Maple Leafs and other major Canadian teams are strong brands indeed. They would be strong with or without that NHL shield. The NHL is weak enough to where a rival league could take them out. Even if it meant it was done in a merger fashion. Like the AFL/NFL situation. Fact is, of the "four major", they are the only league with any kind of threat with this. Why? Because there are no teams in America with Maple leaf popularity. You do need American markets and I think they have so much potential. The NHL derps it up. (look lockouts) Why people invest in a football professional league is beyond me.

[IceCap]

You are missing my point, Cap. The Maple Leafs and other major Canadian teams are strong brands indeed. They would be strong with or without that NHL shield. The NHL is weak enough to where a rival league could take them out. Even if it meant it was done in a merger fashion. Like the AFL/NFL situation. Fact is, of the "four major", they are the only league with any kind of threat with this. Why? Because there are no teams in America with Maple leaf popularity. You do need American markets and I think they have so much potential. The NHL derps it up. (look lockouts) Why people invest in a football professional league is beyond me.

Point taken.

You give the NHL way to much credit calling it part of the "major four" in the States I agree, the NHL has a lot of untapped potential in the United States that they've failed to capitalize on. The NHL is vulnerable in the States, yes, but there are road blocks.

The problems with a rival league in the States to supplant the NHL's American foothold are two fold. The first is an answer to your question about why people waste time investing in a second pro football league. And it goes back to an earlier point of yours. Football's more popular. Football's where the money is at, and it's where the average American sports fan's attention is at. The second problem is that the NHL is already home to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to sports franchise ownership. I can only imagine the pool of scumbags a rival league would have to recruit from.

[Island_Style]

The problems with a rival league in the States to supplant the NHL's American foothold are two fold. The first is an answer to your question about why people waste time investing in a second pro football league. And it goes back to an earlier point of yours. Football's more popular. Football's where the money is at, and it's where the average American sports fan's attention is at. The second problem is that the NHL is already home to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to sports franchise ownership. I can only imagine the pool of scumbags a rival league would have to recruit from.

And that is where I think the investors need to change their way of thinking. Football leagues don't make money. Why? it is monopolized. NFL and college. All there is room for. They did it right. Investors need to be like sharks and smell the blood of the NHL. Someone needs to do hockey right. The NHL isn't doing it. Easier to steal a star from the NHL than the NFL. The KHL was made on this principal. Now they are striking.

[IceCap]

The KHL will never supplant the NHL. Hockey fans in New York, Chicago, or Detroit are not going to abandon the Rangers, Blackhawks, and Red Wings to follow SKA Saint Petersburg, Spartak Moscow, and Barys Astana. The KHL was founded to challenge the NHL internationally. Not to challenge the NHL for dominance in North America.

If the NHL is supplanted it'll be by a "premier league" of its top teams breaking off or by a new, domestic league that wins over the stronger NHL teams. The KHL may partner with whoever does it, but they won't be the league to actually supplant the NHL.

[Island_Style]

The KHL will never supplant the NHL. Hockey fans in New York, Chicago, or Detroit are not going to abandon the Rangers, Blackhawks, and Red Wings to follow SKA Saint Petersburg, Spartak Moscow, and Barys Astana. The KHL was founded to challenge the NHL internationally. Not to challenge the NHL for dominance in North America.

If the NHL is supplanted it'll be by a "premier league" of its top teams breaking off or by a new, domestic league that wins over the stronger NHL teams. The KHL may partner with whoever does it, but they won't be the league to actually supplant the NHL.

I know this. You took too much from my KHL. I was talking about stealing stars. Of course it has to be in America. What am I talking about here? I rival league in American markets. Stay with me, Cap.

[IceCap]

My apologies. I misread your KHL comment.

[JackieMoon]

If the NHL doesn't get it's crap together, the NLL could possibly pass them up in popularity. Hell last Winter I could watch all NLL games, but when it came to the NHL, only a handful.

Don't get me wrong, I love hockey, it is my favorite sport! But, the NHL and all it's stupid cronies need to burn in flames. All of the NHL's founders would roll over in their graves at what has become.

The league needs to lose everything, crash and burn, and be rebuilt as something a lot better! I miss the days when you could watch all of the playoff games on NBC throughout the week and weekend. Now you can't watch anything but what is shown on your local Fox Sports (in which my case is Columbus, bleh!)

[bosrs1]

Don't know about the NLL, but there is definitely a possibility after this disaster of a lockout that the MLS gains ground and possibly passes the NHL as the #4 sport in the nation. The now nearly 20 year old soccer league is making some headway across the board before the NHL went and shot itself in the head.

[ElwoodCuse]

Don't know about the NLL, but there is definitely a possibility after this disaster of a lockout that the MLS gains ground and possibly passes the NHL as the #4 sport in the nation. The now nearly 20 year old soccer league is making some headway across the board before the NHL went and shot itself in the head.

The MLS is not passing anyone for anything so long as the best players in the world continue to play in Europe

[IceCap]

[rams80]

All of the NHL's founders would roll over in their graves at what has become.

Primarily in regards to the rights the players have now. NHL owners have historically been heads and have been since the league was founded.

[Billy B]

Don't know about the NLL, but there is definitely a possibility after this disaster of a lockout that the MLS gains ground and possibly passes the NHL as the #4 sport in the nation. The now nearly 20 year old soccer league is making some headway across the board before the NHL went and shot itself in the head.

The MLS is not passing anyone for anything so long as the best players in the world continue to play in Europe

The MLS is a lot closer to getting to the #4 spot in the United States than the NLL ever will be. It's still not going to happen unless the NHL messes up really bad. Fans still can't wait for hockey to be back and will tune in the moment a deal gets announced.