Your 2012 National Hockey Lockout Thread

[Island_Style]

Considering the proposals the NHL has put forth, I wouldn't bother running the numbers, either. Read the last proposal. Once you get past the good feelings of "50/50 split," there's no way those terms are acceptable to the union in any way. I don't think people realize just how critical the dead cap space provisions are. That's an awesome way to not give people money while saying you are.

We hur dur. That isn't the point. He is an ass to work with. In fact, it seems he would rather measure his dick than work something out. They talk like once a week. Come on! It is a dick measuring contest and Fehr is half the reason that happened.

[TheOldRoman]

Considering the proposals the NHL has put forth, I wouldn't bother running the numbers, either. Read the last proposal. Once you get past the good feelings of "50/50 split," there's no way those terms are acceptable to the union in any way. I don't think people realize just how critical the dead cap space provisions are. That's an awesome way to not give people money while saying you are.

I agree. I think both sides share the blame, but most of it is on the owners. I know you have defended Fehr at pretty much every turn (probably fully out of your hatred for Reinsdorf), but Fehr is scum, too. And realistically, everybody knows at this point that the owners have all the power and will eventually win. So why waste time? Why dick and stall just to be an ass? He should be addressing what sucks in the owners' offer and making legitimate counters, even if it they are very far from what the owners offered and have no chance of getting accepted. In the end, the owners will get what they want, Fehr will get his millions out of things, and the players and fans will get screwed over.

[The_Admiral]

Of course he's an ass to work with. You think Marvin Miller was a peach? The NHL owners are by and large the worst misers, charlatans, and overall bastards in North American sports ownership. The end result will be them winning handily as it always is because they have such low elasticity in their critical markets; there's no sense in being a good buddy in negotiations. You have to give the crap you get if only for show.

I've defended Fehr because rooting against the players you watch is one of the most ethically bankrupt things you can do both as a sports fan and as someone living in 2012 where bloated plutocrats are trying to break--and succeeding in breaking--the will of anyone who isn't a bloated plutocrat. I'm not even that liberal; the world is just a terrible place. And if you're a fan of some pissant team that's relying on clawing back payroll and stealing others' revenue, just kindly stop liking the sport I like.

[Island_Style]

Of course he's an ass to work with. You think Marvin Miller was a peach? The NHL owners are by and large the worst misers, charlatans, and overall bastards in North American sports ownership. The end result will be them winning handily as it always is because they have such low elasticity in their critical markets; there's no sense in being a good buddy in negotiations. You have to give the crap you get if only for show.

You need to be in between buddy and jerk face. You need to WORK with the other side. NO! YOU, ! FEHR OUT! That is how he handles counter proposals. Then they don't talk for a week.......if the schedule is open. Where is the sense of urgency? The NHL can't handle this work stoppage. They are almost Arena Football status. Fehr and Bettman are stuck in a dick measuring contest... Even though they are both three inches.

[The_Admiral]

You say this after Bettman has established his negotiating style to be just saying no to everything until he gets absolutely everything he wants (Jerry Reinsdorf does this too: the infamous "three thirds, no thirds" comment with the Nationals, then THIS), with maybe a perfunctory joke offer thrown in, like 43% of diminished revenue, or five-year contracts with a lowered cap further lowered by cap hits on inactive players. There is virtually no good-faith negotiation from ownership. Probably because they're mostly bad people.

I agree that the NHL can't handle this. The irony is that the teams they're trying to save the most with this lockout, as evidenced by the Magical Benchmark-Ignoring Revenue Sharing Committee (you know, the ones that suck and drag the league down), are the ones that are going to be hurt the most by not playing hockey.

[Island_Style]

You say this after Bettman has established his negotiating style to be just saying no to everything until he gets absolutely everything he wants

Hey, I think Bettman deserves half the blame. I am just saying that Fehr is just as bad as Bettman. Like I said. They both are in this contest with a three incher.

[Magnus]

And it's probably only a three-incher when aroused (by being combative toward each other).

[Gothamite]

You say this after Bettman has established his negotiating style to be just saying no to everything until he gets absolutely everything he wants

Hey, I think Bettman deserves half the blame. I am just saying that Fehr is just as bad as Bettman. Like I said.

When a league has to even threaten a work stoppage so soon after resolving another, the blame always resides with ownership. Always.

If successive CBAs are so bad that their expiration must be met with lockouts, again I blame ownership. These guys are supposed to be businessmen? I know it's the GDNHL, so they're not necessarily good businessmen, but still.

Fehr might be a jerk, but Bettman is incompetent. Bettman is the one running his sport into the ground, not Fehr. Bettman is the one who provoked this stupid showdown, not Fehr. Bettman is the one spending tens of millions of the owners' money every year to keep his failed vanity project alive, not Fehr.

I can't see a universe where the two men are anywhere near equally culpable for the situation.

[Magnus]

Eureka! There is hockey on TV! Didn't know who I should cheer for at first since I haven't rooted for Toronto for years, but I guess I'd prefer to see Toronto win than Hamilton, being Montreal's farm club. So, uh, go Marlies?

Maybe I should look for the Phantoms on TV.

[Gothamite]

Isn't it the case that the Stanley Cup could be awarded to a minor-league team if the NHL loses another season?

How cool would that be, to see the Hershey Bears, Chicago Wolves or Milwaukee Admirals listed on Lord Stanley's Cup?

[Magnus]

Not as cool as the Phantoms.

[IceCap]

Isn't it the case that the Stanley Cup could be awarded to a minor-league team if the NHL loses another season?

How cool would that be, to see the Hershey Bears, Chicago Wolves or Milwaukee Admirals listed on Lord Stanley's Cup?

It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Cup pre-dates the NHL, having been awarded for the first time in 1893. It didn't become exclusive to the NHL until 1927.

The trustees could award the Cup to any team or league that wants to challenge for it, but they've already stated that they won't accept any requests to challenge for it in the event that the NHL loses another season.

[Gothamite]

Shame. I'd love to see a great modern minor league club inscribed on it.

Even the Phantoms.

[NEW.ERA]

Sportsnet showed the Bulldogs vs. the Marlies and are now showing the Wolves and Heat.

It's just like Hockey Night in Canada!

[CS85]

http://deadspin.com/...dium=socialflow

This made me cry. We should be watching the Blue Jackets lose for real.

I think it's kind of neat. Sad? Absolutely, but cool of the PBP guys to show their fans a good time.

[cmm]

Isn't it the case that the Stanley Cup could be awarded to a minor-league team if the NHL loses another season?

How cool would that be, to see the Hershey Bears, Chicago Wolves or Milwaukee Admirals listed on Lord Stanley's Cup?

It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Cup pre-dates the NHL, having been awarded for the first time in 1893. It didn't become exclusive to the NHL until 1927.

The trustees could award the Cup to any team or league that wants to challenge for it, but they've already stated that they won't accept any requests to challenge for it in the event that the NHL loses another season.

Here's an ESPN article where the trustees say that they can award the Cup to another team but will not.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19832/non-nhl-teams-competing-for-stanley-cup

[Viper]

Isn't it the case that the Stanley Cup could be awarded to a minor-league team if the NHL loses another season?

How cool would that be, to see the Hershey Bears, Chicago Wolves or Milwaukee Admirals listed on Lord Stanley's Cup?

There's not a chance of it being the Admirals, at least not if they keep stinking up arenas the way they did during the first two periods at Bradley Center the other night vs. Charlotte. They finally remembered how to play hockey midway through the third, but by then it was too little too late.

[The_Admiral]

Word on the twitterstreet is that the NHL is willing to negotiate the make whole provision (the one I haven't wrapped my head around yet) but will not move on anything else. So no moving on

- Making the top ten teams fork over $10 million each to keep failing teams alive with no strings attached

- No burying bad contracts

- No contracts over five years

- Cap hits on retired players who had long-term contracts

- An untenably narrow floor/ceiling range

and so much more that in no way yields a better game on the ice. This is depressing. Even if we get the league back this year, what are we really getting in the future? I don't want this vision of parity.

[ninersdd]

Bettman and Fehr to hockey fans:

[HedleyLamarr]

Sure, the NHLPA won't be excited about it, but the NHL should at least propose what the NFL has....no guaranteed contracts.

Or at least two salary cap floors.....keep the standard "$16 million below ceiling" for those teams that would like to benefit from revenue sharing, and a lower floor (I dunno...$25-30 million below the cap ceiling) for those teams that can't afford to spend to the current $16 million basement.