Help the (NBA) Mavericks design their new uniforms

[Conrad.]

Browsing around dribbble and found this worthy concept from Tim Cook:

Note: this is not for Mark's contest, this was previously done as a "city fashion" concept my Tim. I just think it looks cool, yet it still mocks the concept.

[pcgd]

I have no doubts Nike needed Fraser more than the reverse. But he's bundling more services in a variety of ways. He's more flexible and able than I am. That's easy to see. And maybe it IS a commodity. Other industries as you say...go that route too. If I had it to do over again I sure wouldn't go to school for art. I know I'm the self-appointed king of the awful analogy. But here's another one. Stand up comedians. Similar in that it's the arts and their jokes are proprietary original content. The vast majority provide their comedy for little to nothing and they travel to dives and get boo'd and all manner of stuff. And they don't (that I know of) argue that people have stopped valuing comedy. They have their own internal ethics about stealing/inspiring (like we do) and they basically either do it because they love it or to try and hit it big. And if they DO get noticed I'll grant you they don't work for free...but they audition for free. It's a gray area I know and lousy example. I just feel like we are maybe the blacksmiths (as well as teachers) or maybe the cobbler downtown who bemoans people just buying new "cheap" shoes......."in my day I tell ya.........."

I originally started to say this is way different and then I talked myself into agreeing with your analogy. The only caveat to that is Comedy/Acting has always had that built in. Its always been about auditioning, suffering, and hopefully hitting it big.

There has defiantly been a shift how people view design in general since the personal computer and cheap/free design software. The general public literally thinks anyone can do it now. I don't think that was the case 30 years ago.

Now you can certainly argue that's for the better, and I wouldn't say you are wrong. Its allowed more people including myself get into this career. But at the same time its allowed a ton of hacks to get paid and people have started to accept "good enough" instead of only accepting "great."

You defiantly see it in the sign industry. It used to be mostly hand painted beautiful signs or customized neon were everywhere and you didn't see bad signs very often. Even garage sale signs had care taken to how they looked. But now with vinyl you see some truly awful signage nearly everywhere. I don't know the last time I saw a nicely done sign outside of some sand blasted ones, and those are usually in those artificially created "downtowns." And even then, typically those are done by ok designers with solid knowledge of kerning and layout, but not good at creating custom elements or using innovative fonts. That industry is so oversaturated, they have keep prices so low, and businesses are accepting poor design. This is just one example because its happening in all kinds of design.

[guest23]

And if we tried to dovetail the Mark Cuban thing to the stand-up comedian analogy. This is Adam Sandler putting out a casting call for a walk-on in his next movie...either for no comp or scale extra money. No residuals etc. Would that be lame (of him)? Hell yes. I don't think we're any of debating that. But would it also be kind of cool to put that out there to a struggling person? .............yeees? No? Would people in up to do it? Yes. Would the results be good? Clearly not.

I understand where you are going but your analogy doesn't quite work. Much like the the design field, the value and ultimately the compensatoin for the non-superstar talent and supporting crews/staff has been eroding for at least 10 years. Studios have wised up and are no longer throw money at star power (unless you are Charlie Sheen).

Writers and the WGA have had to made huge concessions especially as unscripted has taken over and those writers (wait, reality tv has writers?) are all non union and the crews are typically all non union. Additoinally with the developments in CGI and the enivitable outsourcing overseas has made once talent driven and well paying careers nothing more than a commodity.

Many once good careers are being reduced to commoditized labor and it really sucks. I think the problem is twofold: Clients not valuing or respecting the designers' efforts/unique talents and the walmart effect where clients are willing to sacrifice quality to get something done on the cheap.

Regardless trying to choose a career path with some longevity this day and age friggin sucks. Being a designer sounds like a great 2nd job or a hobby but I doubt any of you would recommend it to anyone else.

[BrandMooreArt]

And if we tried to dovetail the Mark Cuban thing to the stand-up comedian analogy. This is Adam Sandler putting out a casting call for a walk-on in his next movie...either for no comp or scale extra money. No residuals etc. Would that be lame (of him)? Hell yes. I don't think we're any of debating that. But would it also be kind of cool to put that out there to a struggling person? .............yeees? No? Would people in up to do it? Yes. Would the results be good? Clearly not.

Regardless trying to choose a career path with some longevity this day and age friggin sucks. Being a designer sounds like a great 2nd job or a hobby but I doubt any of you would recommend it to anyone else.

recommend as a hobby/second job? or career? i would definitely recommend as a career. i dont have any regrets. and i dont want to do anything else, unless it's driving race cars but i dont think that's a likely option. if its what you have a passion for or feel like it's your life's vocation then do it

[29texan]

yea, i don't think he'll be changing logos at all (costs too much!).

Still goin' for it.

Just for the hell of it.

[jartigue23]

http://joeyartigue.tumblr.com/post/51287719147/concept-with-illustrator-mark-cubans

FYI: My submission

[29texan]

Well, my entry's in.

And I made original logos, but apparently they didn't want that, so I made some touch ups on the current one.

But just 'cause, here are my original Mavs logos:

And because I already know some of you will ask, the Pegasus is a symbol of Dallas.

[A_A]

Hey Lads.

Firstly lemme just say that this is me. Somehow I locked myself out of my account and I've been here so long the system tried to help me reset the password through an extinct email. I'm lazy so I made a new account. Maybe a mod could assist me with regaining my seniority/privileges at some point. No biggie.

Secondly, I'm really impressed with the discourse on this topic. Good points for the most part. And I would tend to agree with most of them. This "contest" or call to action even......doesn't it require a firm prize to be a contest? It is a great, troubling, and non story all at once. There's an argument (a strong one) to be made against spec work. That's kind of a "duh", But on the other hand we are all often guilty of getting up at arms for our particular cause and ignoring that this kind of thing happens all the time in every other industry. There's a market for off brand drugs, and cover bands and mowing your own lawn and cleaning your own pool and the list goes on and on. So..I think Cuban got it 75% correct here. Sure, buck the system, go around NBA Properties and engage with the fans. Just.....write a note that acknowledges the situation, and agree to a "what if" fixed compensation.

I wanted to write here for 2 reasons today. 1) I worked up a concept. I couldnt' help it. The greatest thing Cuban did here was show his hand and alert people that he's interested. Most teams never do that until they are well on their way toward a new brand. It's simply cool to know this information in advance and the temptation was too much for me to ignore. I will not however post the concepts on his blog and officially "enter" this contest purely on principle. I will make every effort otherwise to get it seen. But I've registered it. It's my property and so it would need to be purchased at some quasi fair market value.

2) I wanted to add another possible reason as to why MC might have thought "free" artwork was appriopriate. I haven't head this rationalization anywhere but bear with me. Scenario: Team wants new logo. Hires firm. Pays firm. Gets new logo. THat's one model and MAYBE it's the old model. Nowadays each league has either their own IP/Design wing...NFL Properties etc....OR they have relationships with official manufacturers (Nike, Reebok) who have their own design shops. When these teams are rebranded "in house" and I'll use that term to extend beyond the team's marketing dept, but to the league or manufacturer....I'm not sure cash actually changes hands. It's what we used to call in the ole accounting world "intercompany billing". It's all on the ledger but not in the sense of an owner paying for these services. If Reebok designs your logo are you going to really pay them? They've got staff for that and THEY pay YOU to be the official retailer of (for instance) the NHL. So yes, Reebok has designers on staff and they accrue billable hours working on this project and it might total a quarter million in value for all I know (retail street value in terms of paying your employees). But these are all sunk costs that you roll into part of doing business with that league. In essence the team is paying for design by accepting slightly less money from the manufacturer for exclusive rights to make their gear. Make sense? I'm saying it's entirely possible to that half the teams in the major sports are NOT paying for design in the traditional sense. Something to think about. And if you wanted to extrapolate that further to crazy billionaire logic? Adidas or whomever passes those fees they pay the NBA down to the customers for product. So we (the fans) always pay for the design one way or another anyway you slice it. Perhaps its a no-brainer for him given that.

LOVE LOvE LOVE the logo.

[jdennis82]

My favorite entry so far (not mine)...

http://files.crowdspring.com/entry/5899124.800x800.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJW6JEGSKDSNWYXSQ&Expires=1371168000&Signature=rvtY2mDK%2F8kyLnaXsNVW4m9jcdU%3D

[powersurge]

I find it really interesting that there are so many entries with sublimated logo/design elements on the jerseys. I guess it kind of speaks to the current era of uniform design we are stuck in. I predict that in 3-5 years from now that design element will look ultra dated and completely irrelevant. If Cuban wants a design that works and won't be outdated before it even leaves the factory then he should probably avoid selecting any entry featuring that design element.

[Midway]

If Cuban wants a design that works and won't be outdated before it even leaves the factory...

Yeah I highly doubt that's Cuban's goal if he's going to take these kinds of measures to rebrand his team.

[StillS]

Hey Lads.

Firstly lemme just say that this is me. Somehow I locked myself out of my account and I've been here so long the system tried to help me reset the password through an extinct email. I'm lazy so I made a new account. Maybe a mod could assist me with regaining my seniority/privileges at some point. No biggie.

Secondly, I'm really impressed with the discourse on this topic. Good points for the most part. And I would tend to agree with most of them. This "contest" or call to action even......doesn't it require a firm prize to be a contest? It is a great, troubling, and non story all at once. There's an argument (a strong one) to be made against spec work. That's kind of a "duh", But on the other hand we are all often guilty of getting up at arms for our particular cause and ignoring that this kind of thing happens all the time in every other industry. There's a market for off brand drugs, and cover bands and mowing your own lawn and cleaning your own pool and the list goes on and on. So..I think Cuban got it 75% correct here. Sure, buck the system, go around NBA Properties and engage with the fans. Just.....write a note that acknowledges the situation, and agree to a "what if" fixed compensation.

I wanted to write here for 2 reasons today. 1) I worked up a concept. I couldnt' help it. The greatest thing Cuban did here was show his hand and alert people that he's interested. Most teams never do that until they are well on their way toward a new brand. It's simply cool to know this information in advance and the temptation was too much for me to ignore. I will not however post the concepts on his blog and officially "enter" this contest purely on principle. I will make every effort otherwise to get it seen. But I've registered it. It's my property and so it would need to be purchased at some quasi fair market value.

2) I wanted to add another possible reason as to why MC might have thought "free" artwork was appriopriate. I haven't head this rationalization anywhere but bear with me. Scenario: Team wants new logo. Hires firm. Pays firm. Gets new logo. THat's one model and MAYBE it's the old model. Nowadays each league has either their own IP/Design wing...NFL Properties etc....OR they have relationships with official manufacturers (Nike, Reebok) who have their own design shops. When these teams are rebranded "in house" and I'll use that term to extend beyond the team's marketing dept, but to the league or manufacturer....I'm not sure cash actually changes hands. It's what we used to call in the ole accounting world "intercompany billing". It's all on the ledger but not in the sense of an owner paying for these services. If Reebok designs your logo are you going to really pay them? They've got staff for that and THEY pay YOU to be the official retailer of (for instance) the NHL. So yes, Reebok has designers on staff and they accrue billable hours working on this project and it might total a quarter million in value for all I know (retail street value in terms of paying your employees). But these are all sunk costs that you roll into part of doing business with that league. In essence the team is paying for design by accepting slightly less money from the manufacturer for exclusive rights to make their gear. Make sense? I'm saying it's entirely possible to that half the teams in the major sports are NOT paying for design in the traditional sense. Something to think about. And if you wanted to extrapolate that further to crazy billionaire logic? Adidas or whomever passes those fees they pay the NBA down to the customers for product. So we (the fans) always pay for the design one way or another anyway you slice it. Perhaps its a no-brainer for him given that.

I hope Cuban sees this logo, comes to his senses and purchases it from you because you have one badass logo there my friend. The only thing i don't like is the lack of green, but that's more of a personal preference than anything else.

This logo and current jerseys with some inclusion of green will be one awesome team identity

[powersurge]

If Cuban wants a design that works and won't be outdated before it even leaves the factory...

Yeah I highly doubt that's Cuban's goal if he's going to take these kinds of measures to rebrand his team.

Well to his credit, this newer design has had a few little tweaks but has lastest quite a few years. I just don't buy it that a billionaire really needs to save money on hiring designers to redesign his team's unis. I could be wrong but knowing what we know about Cuban, and based on his history it would be well within the realm of possibility that this uniform design stunt has more to do with expanding his brand and getting his team more exposure by holding this contest. I think its weak, but seeing that I'm not a billionaire sports team owner my experience and credibility falls well short of his.

[Sterling84v2.0]

Good points all. But again. To reiterate. I'm not sure finances are primary concern here. What was the last NBA rebrand where we know the name of the external designer? Portland? Houston? A decade ago at least for both? Chime in if I'm missing one. Bucks secondary might have been. Pretty sure all Cuban would have to do is phone up Adidas (and the NBA to let 'em know) and he'd be looking at "free" ideas in a week....from professionals no less. Only difference is they'd be getting a paycheck for it. But not directly from the Mavericks either way is my point. I think, he's a savvy dude. There's nothing "official" about this. No fine print in the blog post. How binding is any of that language? It's not. It's only binding in the sense that he could win any court battle through his financial might if it came to it. But by phrasing it the way he has? He has a nonchalant legitimate "out" that say, the Brewers YOUniform contest didn't have. His out is simply that none of them were very good or he's not interested.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

[Conrad.]

What was the last NBA rebrand where we know the name of the external designer?

Ben Barnes (from here) made the Pelicans identity.

[Sterling84v2.0]

What was the last NBA rebrand where we know the name of the external designer?

Ben Barnes (from here) made the Pelicans identity.

Thank you. Any time someone utters the phrase, "Well when was the last time..." as though it had been forever? You can be pretty sure it actually happened yesterday and DOES happen all the time. Fair enough.

[29texan]

With the contest over, I guess I'll show the full concept. May as well...

And I do realize that the lines on the wordmark are a bit uneven. But you get the idea.

[arcane]

When is the due date for this competition?

[29texan]

When is the due date for this competition?

5/31