2014 BBWAA Hall of Fame thread

[Gary]

I'm still making my case For Alan Trammell. With Biggio, Jack Morris and Frank Thomas.

[CubsFanBudMan]

So you're the guy who didn't vote for Greg Maddux.

[cmm]

With 188 ballots made public as of this post, it's looking like Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are going to make it. Craig Biggio is right on the borderline--78.7%. It's not looking good for anyone else. The next highest guy is Mike Piazza at 68.6%. He'll have to be on around 78% (the exact number depends on the number of ballots returned) of the outstanding ballots to make it.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_2013_hof_ballot_collecting_gizmo

[Kramerica Industries]

Considering Mike Mussina was a better pitcher during the course of his career than Tom Glavine was (more-so as an Oriole than a Yankee), seeing Glavine's likely first time ballot entry gives me pretty reasonable hope that Moose will also be there in a few short years. Glavine is deserving himself, but there's no doubt he's inflated a bit because of 300 wins and being a part of one of those "Big Three's", even if I were to take Maddux or Smoltz much sooner than I would take Glavine.

[OnWis97]

So you're the guy who didn't vote for Greg Maddux.

That's hilarious. The whole "first ballot" thing is funny. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or they are not. If I had a vote, that's how I'd go about it, anyway. And who cares if Maddux gets in unanimously when Mays, Ruth, Aaron, etc. did not? Those "stats" don't matter. Tom Seaver has the highest percentage but I never hear him referred to as the greatest pitcher of all time. Vote for those who deserve it year 1 as well as years 2-x.

[JayMac]

So you're the guy who didn't vote for Greg Maddux.

That's hilarious. The whole "first ballot" thing is funny. Either someone is a Hall of Famer or they are not. If I had a vote, that's how I'd go about it, anyway. And who cares if Maddux gets in unanimously when Mays, Ruth, Aaron, etc. did not? Those "stats" don't matter. Tom Seaver has the highest percentage but I never hear him referred to as the greatest pitcher of all time. Vote for those who deserve it year 1 as well as years 2-x.

Yeah I think the first ballot hall of fame thing is stupid. Who cares if you get the nod on the first or tenth shot.

[CubsFanBudMan]

If all voters agreed that a player was not first ballot HOF, but deserved to be in on the second ballot, that player would not get enough votes to make it to the second ballot.

[Sport]

Some guy named Ken Gurnick created a hullabaloo because he refused to vote for any player who played in the Steroid era. That includes Greg Maddux who was about as squeaky clean as a baseball player can get.

His lone vote was for Jack Morris, which is an okay vote, but highlights the absurdity of his grandstanding against an entire era even more when it was pointed out that Morris and Maddux were in the major leagues at the same time for 9 years.

I think Biggio should get in this year.

[Kramerica Industries]

I will never support the Jack Morris Hall of Fame stuff. The dude pitched some gems in two World Series, including Game 4 in 1984 and obviously Game 7 from 1991 (he was also in the '92 Series in Toronto; don't remember how well he did), but the overall career body of work isn't there. ERA+ of 105 is not Hall worthy, by any stretch.

I can only choose 10, but I'll use all my theoretical votes - Maddux, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, Piazza, Thomas, Moose, Raines, Schilling, and Biggio. I've long said that I don't grandstand nearly as much against those implicated in the steroid era as others, because shady ways of enhancing performance have existed in baseball forever. This is nothing new.

[Gary]

I will never support the Jack Morris Hall of Fame stuff. The dude pitched some gems in two World Series, including Game 4 in 1984 and obviously Game 7 from 1991 (he was also in the '92 Series in Toronto; don't remember how well he did), but the overall career body of work isn't there. ERA+ of 105 is not Hall worthy, by any stretch.

I can only choose 10, but I'll use all my theoretical votes - Maddux, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, Piazza, Thomas, Moose, Raines, Schilling, and Biggio. I've long said that I don't grandstand nearly as much against those implicated in the steroid era as others, because shady ways of enhancing performance have existed in baseball forever. This is nothing new.

No Glavine?

[the admiral]

Jack Morris is basically the same pitcher as Curt Schilling, right down to the October heroics. If one goes in, the other has to.

And don't be silly on Tom Glavine.

[Kramerica Industries]

It's not so much being against Glavine, it's just an excellent ballot this year. I'm not opposed to him being in, just ran out of slots. I also blanked on Alan Trammell - given that this is his 13th ballot, I'd probably bump Moose or another first-timer to get him in.

And we've had this Schilling/Morris discussion before, so just to put it succinctly from last time - we disagree. I won't go into the full depth of statistics, I'll just let the 127 ERA+ to 105 ERA+ margin tell the difference there.

[Sport]

Point is, if you're going to vote ONLY for Jack Morris for the Hall of Fame out of this list of deserving candidates you shouldn't have a Hall of Fame vote and you probably shouldn't cover sports professionally because it's clear you are an abject jackass.

The good news is there's enough smart voters out there that the right people will get in.

[Billy B]

I hate the process that is used to elect people into the Hall of Fame in the first place. The fact that it took someone like Bert Blyleven a decade and a half to get in is a joke. You're either a Hall of Famer or not, you shouldn't have to wait a few years because you weren't that good and you don't magically become good enough after x years.

As far as this year goes, I'm just happy that it looks like Frank Thomas will be getting in this year. I'm a Cubs fan, but he was my favorite baseball player growing up. I think the fact that he was about as clean of a guy as you can get in that era for a power hitter makes it even more impressive.

[OnWis97]

Point is, if you're going to vote ONLY for Jack Morris for the Hall of Fame out of this list of deserving candidates you shouldn't have a Hall of Fame vote and you probably shouldn't cover sports professionally because it's clear you are an abject jackass.

The good news is there's enough smart voters out there that the right people will get in.

Yeah. Your vote needs to be taken seriously. He's using it to make a statement. If he feels Morris belongs, fine. I don't think it's asinine to feel that way (though I happen to believe Morris belongs in the Hall of Very Good). But to leave everyone else off to make a point? He's making it about himself. So I think they should take his vote away. We don't want this to be a trend; voters making it about getting their own names out there.

Also, my beef with the "Not voting for steroid era" thing is that having that stance could (and should) include Maddux. Yeah, he was a pitcher. No, he was not a power pitcher. But PEDs are also about recovering from injuries and workouts. They can help guys like Maddux too. I'm not accusing Maddux, but I don't think it's a "fact" that he was clean (or Frank Thomas, Griffey, etc.). That's why they would at the very least need a positive test or admission of guilt before I would withhold my vote.

If all voters agreed that a player was not first ballot HOF, but deserved to be in on the second ballot, that player would not get enough votes to make it to the second ballot.

That's not going to happen, but this is a great point. It's an extremely unlikely scenario, but if 75% of the voters took this artificial "no first ballot" stand then, in theory this could happen. Another reason voters should take their votes seriously.

[cmm]

Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas in. Biggio falls just short (74.8%). That is two votes short. Ouch.

[RyanB06]

Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas in. Biggio falls just short (74.8%). That is two votes short. Ouch.

MLB Network Radio (SiriusXM) had two voters (Murray Chass and Marty Noble) say they got some anonymous-sourced info that Biggio was a PED user, and left him off their ballots. Those two votes would have put him in.

[Kramerica Industries]

Yes, because anonymously sourced information is clearly immediately credible.

The BBWAA frigging sucks.

[Sport]

Dan Lebetard was the guy who sold his vote to Deadspin.

http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

That doesn't surprise me in the least that it was him. That said, I don't disagree with what he said about the current state of hall of fame voting.

[GriffinM6]

Wow. What a great class this is. My guess is that Biggio, Piazza, and maybe Bagwell make it next year. Pedro Martinez and Jeff Kent will have strong cases next year as well.