Are any teams in Concepts untouchable?

[jdp]

I contemplated adding this question/statement into the New Users Guide, but thought better of it at the time. But some reactions within recent threads made me want to finally ask:

Are there any "untouchable" teams and/or logos and/or uniforms out there? Everyone will have his or her opinion on what is untouchable, but I'm more curious about the more universal ones.

For instance, it would seem you shouldn't claim to improve upon or "fix" the Original 6. Likewise, you may include the Yankees, Red Sox and the Cardinals' birds-on-the-bat. There are a couple NBA and NFL teams I would throw into the mix as well.

And, apparently, you don't mess with Texas State in any form, whatsoever.

Please note: I am not suggesting nor am I starting a list. This was simply to ask the question.

EDIT: Nor am I attempting to tackle the "classic" looks. Unless, of course, Raysox wants to keep doing contests.

All that said, as far as I'm concerned, you can take and break whatever you want (in general, this seems to be the consensus here). This is a Concepts forum, after all.

PS - Sorry for the recent topics on forum "decorum" and/or rules. Not trying to police the Concepts, just asking questions. I'll stop if you're getting annoyed and/or you just want me to shut up.

PPS - Sorry for so many instances of "and/or."

[pianoknight]

As much as it pains me to say... Notre Dame.

Both the interlocking ND logo and the Angry Irish Man logos are iconic and probably will never change. Tweak - perhaps, but never change outright.

[BigBubba]

Are you asking for concepts or simply starting a discussion?

Assuming it's the latter, there seem to be almost as many teams who mess up should-be untouchable uniforms and hold on to crappy ones as there are teams who don't touch "untouchable" ones and toss crappy ones. For example, the Leafs have great-looking, classic uniforms, but over the past 20 years they've insisted on trying to be "kewl" by fiddling around with silver, weird shoulder patches, funky fonts, and whatever Reebok Edge threw at them (now they finally have them right; let's hope it stays that way). And the Yankees, whose home uniforms are arguably some of the most sacred sports uniforms on the planet, have worn those hideous white-billed BP caps a few times over the past two years. If that uniform isn't untouchable, what is? Then you have the Cardinals with their red/navy cap indecisiveness and that new cream alt, the Red Sox with their road uniform ADD, etc.

And then you have teams who hold on to the same awful looks while these "classic" teams mess with their looks. Seven years after the Reebok Edge Massacre, probably the three hardest-hit teams (St. Louis, Colorado, and Calgary) haven't even touched theirs (though that looks to chnge with the Blues this summer). In baseball, the Blue Jays were in the wilderness for, well anywhere from eight to fifteen years, depending how you look at it before they finally righted things. Sometimes the right choices are so obvious, but they take so long to realize it.

[CAB]

In real life, yes. There will always be teams like the Yankees, Celtics, Red Wings, and many others that stick very close to their original uniform design. But I don't think there should be any teams deemed "untouchable" for concepts. Hell, I think it's even more fun to see somebody try an original take on a classic team once in a while. We had a contest a couple years ago (DrawBrawl maybe?) where the task was to rebrand a quote "untouchable" team. Granted, 99% of them won't actually be better than the original, but it's always nice to see fresh ideas. There's nothing sacrilegious about making a concept for a classic team.

[BigBubba]

In real life, yes. There will always be teams like the Yankees, Celtics, Red Wings, and many others that stick very close to their original uniform design. But I don't think there should be any teams deemed "untouchable" for concepts. Hell, I think it's even more fun to see somebody try an original take on a classic team once in a while. We had a contest a couple years ago (DrawBrawl maybe?) where the task was to rebrand a quote "untouchable" team. Granted, 99% of them won't actually be better than the original, but it's always nice to see fresh ideas. There's nothing sacrilegious about making a concept for a classic team.

Oh, if this was a discussion about "untouchable" uniforms in concepts, then I wholeheartedly agree. The whole point of making concepts is to have fun and share new ideas, so I don't think anything should be off-limits.

[jdp]

In real life, yes. There will always be teams like the Yankees, Celtics, Red Wings, and many others that stick very close to their original uniform design. But I don't think there should be any teams deemed "untouchable" for concepts. Hell, I think it's even more fun to see somebody try an original take on a classic team once in a while. We had a contest a couple years ago (DrawBrawl maybe?) where the task was to rebrand a quote "untouchable" team. Granted, 99% of them won't actually be better than the original, but it's always nice to see fresh ideas. There's nothing sacrilegious about making a concept for a classic team.

Oh, if this was a discussion about "untouchable" uniforms in concepts, then I wholeheartedly agree. The whole point of making concepts is to have fun and share new ideas, so I don't think anything should be off-limits.

This is what I was asking about.

As I mentioned, there have been some reactions of late that essentially state "How dare you concept my team! " It didn't make sense to me, so I thought I would get more of an idea on how the forum felt. Or to see if there actually were some unspoken rules on the teams that were (or were not) open to concepts.

[mamiller99]

I feel it's hard to do a concept for the Redwings. I feel if you do just too much, than it losses its timeless feel.

[jaker52]

St. Louis Cardinals

[MDGP]

As others have said: Absolutely not. In regards to those people who complain about concepts as you've described, they usually aren't giving legitimate C+C anyways, so I'd just suggest ignoring them.

I'd suggest looking at Discrim's stuff. He has zero problem flipping-the-bird to that "untouchable" mindset, and he has always had some of the most enjoyable concepts on the boards IMO.

[jaker52]

In real life, yes. There will always be teams like the Yankees, Celtics, Red Wings, and many others that stick very close to their original uniform design. But I don't think there should be any teams deemed "untouchable" for concepts. Hell, I think it's even more fun to see somebody try an original take on a classic team once in a while. We had a contest a couple years ago (DrawBrawl maybe?) where the task was to rebrand a quote "untouchable" team. Granted, 99% of them won't actually be better than the original, but it's always nice to see fresh ideas. There's nothing sacrilegious about making a concept for a classic team.

Oh, if this was a discussion about "untouchable" uniforms in concepts, then I wholeheartedly agree. The whole point of making concepts is to have fun and share new ideas, so I don't think anything should be off-limits.

YES the boards should accept new ideas more and not hate a yakee uniform because it isn't the exact team

[Kevin W.]

Nope. There are no rules saying that teams like the Yankees, Red Wings and Packers cannot have concepts of different uniforms made depicting them. Will those concepts ever make it out of the internet into the real world? Absolutely not. But there's nothing stopping someone from imagining what can be but never will.

[drdougfresh]

As long as it's tastefully done, nothing is off limits.

As a fan of several teams with uniforms I consider classic, it's tough to look at a concept as a standalone because it will always be compared to what they have now. That is, unless it's so far off the board from the current look that it can't be compared (as opposed to an 'update' or 'refresh'). Like CJ's Blackhawks concept from 4 years ago: http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/74168-c-jay-c-fishs-nhl-redesign/page-8#entry1429253 (that whole series was pretty solid while it lasted)

There's so much history tied to the 'untouchables' that it's hard to imagine a new look for them, and I think that's why several people will give you the "you shouldn't mess with perfection" line. But I'd argue that it's a much greater artistic challenge (and thus far more rewarding if you make it work) to take on a concept for one of those teams without falling into what's familiar/traditional. That's half the fun of it, in my opinion.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

answer:

[mamiller99]

jdp, I almost peed myself laughing when you talked about Texas State.

[MrAstrodome]

I admit, I get a little antsy when someone takes on my Texans since we've had a strong identity since day one and the only one that hasn't changed.

[YelichGraphics]

As much as it pains me to say... Notre Dame.

Both the interlocking ND logo and the Angry Irish Man logos are iconic and probably will never change. Tweak - perhaps, but never change outright.

Not true. As much as I love Norte Dame there are rumors of a new uniform. Of course that's because of there Under armor deal. that's why there is a rumor, but they may keep there unis the same just like over the years.

If anybody it would most likely be Green Bay Packers in the NFL or the Original six in the NHL

[MrWonka]

I might be just echoing what has been said but anything can be made a concept. It's so hard to make a concept for a team though that does have an untouchable background though. I think some people overdo things. Or go way outside the box to the point where you can't even put the name on the team anymore.

It does get boring however when you see a concept posted of a team who has an iconic look but there's no changed or just a minor tweak. Those I don't really call true concepts. Those are just tweaks in my eyes. A concept to me is bringing a whole new element that changes a look, not just a different collar trim color.

To answer, yes, it's okay to concept an untouchable team but I do think there are limits, and that's not just for untouchables. For any team I think there should be limits on what you're trying to portray.

[Buster]

The Washington Redskins.

[TheRicSlick]

As much as it pains me to say... Notre Dame.

Both the interlocking ND logo and the Angry Irish Man logos are iconic and probably will never change. Tweak - perhaps, but never change outright.

ND football is untouchable, but the Basketball uniforms for both genders are horrible and need some work.

Now it's time for UA to prove they're better than Adidas.

[Buster]

Seriously, there can be no untouchable teams when it comes to making concepts. Anyone can attempt a concept for any team.

However, there are some teams that have been mentioned where it seems impossible to improve their look, mostly classic teams like:


Green Bay Packers

Detroit Red Wings

Boston Celtics

Chicago Bears

New York Yankees

Montral Canadiens

Toronto Maple Leafs

Kansas City Chiefs

Alabama football

Michigan football

Notre Dame football (the alt uniforms are always a downgrade)

North Carolina basketball

Washington Redskins.