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WSU151    2,398
8 minutes ago, ltp74 said:

They still do the Tomahawk Chop? Sorry haven't watched a Braves game in ages, there was a call for them to get rid of it in the early 90's.

 

Losing the Tomahawk on the uniforms when they move to the new stadium isn't a bad idea, over their history they've gone without it. Put me in the camp that would like to see them go back to the lowercase a on the cap with that being the primary logo.

 

I'm pretty sure they still do the chop.  And they've already moved to the new stadium. ^_^

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Limon_Jello    3

I foresee the tomahawk being phased out in time.  No Braves logos on the surrounding facade of SunTrust Park have a tomahawk.  Heck, even the big neon tomahawk in the new ballpark doesn't seem to work in the games I've been to this year.  The chop, however, is still alive and well.  I think the current digs are top notch, though I'd love to see the 80s unis make an appearance.  

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ltp74    48
30 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

I'm pretty sure they still do the chop.  And they've already moved to the new stadium. ^_^

Ha! I thought they still had a year or two to go before it opened. I didn't get MLB.tv this season so I've only been listening to Buccos games and it's not like the Braves are forced down everyone throats on TBS anymore so they're really off my radar.

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coco1997    1,048
8 hours ago, O.C.D said:

Is it a yuck because the idea of a patriotic themed Braves team (either ascetically or politically) or is it a yuck because the team would be trying to rebrand the name that is historically associated with native americans and shoehorn it (in a corn ball way) as meaning something more akin to a patriotic American?

  

I'd say the latter, especially considering there are two other "patriotic" themed teams in the same division. 

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SFGiants58    1,874
8 minutes ago, coco1997 said:

  

I'd say the latter, especially considering their are two other "patriotic" themed teams in the same division. 

 

Yes. With the Nationals, that theme makes sense. It's the same with the Phillies' Liberty Bell imagery (relevant to the city's place in national history). Three is too many, and the way the Braves accomplish it with flag desecration (which is against the Flag Code, BTW) and goofy shoehorning is just a lazy way to go about it. 

 

Also, I kind of have a thing against rampant jingoism, so there's that reason why I find the "Land of the Free, Home of the BRAVES" thing yucky.

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ltp74    48
3 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Yes. With the Nationals, that theme makes sense. It's the same with the Phillies' Liberty Bell imagery (relevant to the city's place in national history). Three is too many, and the way the Braves accomplish it with flag desecration (which is against the Flag Code, BTW) and goofy shoehorning is just a lazy way to go about it. 

 

Also, I kind of have a thing against rampant jingoism, so there's that reason why I find the "Land of the Free, Home of the BRAVES" thing yucky.

Three teams with "patriotic" themes in the same division could be resolved by moving the Braves to the Central and the Pirates to the East.

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the admiral    10,196
5 hours ago, jgiff17 said:

Where is the safe space in this thread?! Someone might need it soon! Haha

haha

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coco1997    1,048
54 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Yes. With the Nationals, that theme makes sense. It's the same with the Phillies' Liberty Bell imagery (relevant to the city's place in national history). Three is too many, and the way the Braves accomplish it with flag desecration (which is against the Flag Code, BTW) and goofy shoehorning is just a lazy way to go about it. 

 

Also, I kind of have a thing against rampant jingoism, so there's that reason why I find the "Land of the Free, Home of the BRAVES" thing yucky.

 

Do you have any ideas for how you'd handle an Atlanta name change/rebrand?

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BlazerBlaze    85

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, no this won't happen.

 

Yes we still "do the chop"

 

But please, by all means, keep this thread going so I can keep laughing. 

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insert name    1,320

For the longest time as a kid, I thought they were called BRAVES because of courage. Like, they're being Brave in battle. If not for the Tomahawk logo and chant, I would've never drew the Native American relation.

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WSU151    2,398
3 hours ago, coco1997 said:

 

Do you have any ideas for how you'd handle an Atlanta name change/rebrand?

 

Why does Atlanta need to change the name?  

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coco1997    1,048
13 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Why does Atlanta need to change the name?  

 

I'm not saying they do. I don't feel particularly strongly either way. I'd prefer they keep their name, but given what's happening with the Indians, I believe it's only a matter of time before we head down that road with Atlanta.

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AstroBull21    545

Fire departments are typically known as "(insert city name)'s Bravest", so maybe modifying the tomahawk into a firefighters axe could work IF change would be made.

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coco1997    1,048
9 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

Fire departments are typically known as "(insert city name)'s Bravest", so maybe modifying the tomahawk into a firefighters axe could work IF change would be made.

 

This is a great idea!

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OnWis97    2,185
1 hour ago, AstroBull21 said:

Fire departments are typically known as "(insert city name)'s Bravest", so maybe modifying the tomahawk into a firefighters axe could work IF change would be made.

The Class A Peoria Chiefs did this.

 

http://www.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t443

 

They had native imagery until 15 years ago or so and changed to a dog in a firefighting uniform.  And I think just about anyone who remember the old Chiefs probably has a hard time looking at this identity as anything but forced.  And with an MLB team, that's everyone.  Sure they could probably come up with a more "major league" look, but it would be the elephant in the room for the next 50 years.  And we'd get to hear about political correctness every time the team is mentioned.  No thanks.

 

I'm one of the pansies that does not love native names and imagery. But for the most part, I think I can accept the deal that while names like Braves and Indians are unlikely to be adopted by new teams (like that's such a tragedy), we generally don't need to go back and undo all of the existing ones.  I'd dump Savages (if that's still around at high schools and colleges) and, of course, Redskins.

 

For teams like the Braves and Indians, the key is to be on the right side of the line between respect and stereotyping/dehumanizing.  Of course that's tricky, since its in the eye of the beholder and there's probably literally nothing on the wrong side of that line to most fans.  To me, Wahoo's a no-brainer.  Its' not in the neighborhood of respectful and even if the intent was not to belittle, it comes from a time-based context where looking down on some people was just second-nature.  (Some cartoons of the 50s or even the 80s are incredible). 

 

Weaponry is more difficult; grayer.  I know we don't like to talk in gray...absolutes are easier.  But to me there's a stereotyping element there. And, of course, it's exacerbated in Atlanta the the Tomahawk Chop.  Language and cultural norms matter.  It's a complex issue with a lot of nuance...which most people prove incapable of handling.

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Waffles    178
6 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

For teams like the Braves and Indians, the key is to be on the right side of the line between respect and stereotyping/dehumanizing.  Of course that's tricky, since its in the eye of the beholder and there's probably literally nothing on the wrong side of that line to most fans.  To me, Wahoo's a no-brainer.  Its' not in the neighborhood of respectful and even if the intent was not to belittle, it comes from a time-based context where looking down on some people was just second-nature.  (Some cartoons of the 50s or even the 80s are incredible).

 

Even if a team's intention to "honor" is legitimate, they don't do much to further these intentions by deciding if/how to represent a group of people without asking them if/how they want to be represented. To me, the best path forward for teams that want to keep Native-inspired names but move past imagery/traditions that are out-of-step is to follow what the Spokane Indians did.

 

They didn't just back up their "honoring" rhetoric by respecting the tribe's right to have a say in how they are portrayed; they recognized that they could use the team's visibility to boost awareness of the tribe's culture and history, and use that culture and history as a resource to enrich the franchise's identity. And, not coincidentally, they ended up with one of the best, and most unique identities in the minors.

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oldschoolvikings    3,619
6 hours ago, BlazerBlaze said:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, no this won't happen.

 

Yes we still "do the chop"

 

But please, by all means, keep this thread going so I can keep laughing. 

 

Is there any more embarrassing way to try to hide the fact you feel defensive and insecure about something than forced laughter?

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Radiohead    26

I'm part Irish and could choose to find drunken Irishmen jokes offensive. I laugh instead...because, hey, they're funny. Italians could choose to boycott Subway for the stereotypical Italian behavior in the new Subway Italian subs ads. But they don't, because they've got better use of their time. Some people just shouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning...you know, to avoid being offended. 

 

The Braves and Indians name are going nowhere (though Wahoo will probably be retired). The Redskins name shouldn't go anywhere either, because 80% of their fans (outside the media) would be pissed. Unfortunately that will probably happen due to pressure from media and league weasels. Though the secondary and black market on Redskins apparel will go through the roof.

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