New Evidence - Pete Rose Bet on Baseball (& the Reds) as a Player

[infrared41]

That may have been one of the funniest jokes ever!!!!!!!!!

Also,is there some kind of "outstanding post" here on the boards? If there is,nominate this guy for one!

You mean something like a post of the day type thing? No, we don't have anything like that here. But I have to agree, that joke may have been the funniest thing I've ever seen. "Wanna bet?" That is some seriously funny . It's really a shame that we don't have some sort or award for that kind of wit. You know what would be cool? If we came up with some sort of ribbon or belt or something that we could give to people to go along with recognizing a great post. Maybe you should start a campaign and try to get something started.

[FGM13]

That may have been one of the funniest jokes ever!!!!!!!!!

Also,is there some kind of "outstanding post" here on the boards? If there is,nominate this guy for one!

You mean something like a post of the day type thing? No, we don't have anything like that here. But I have to agree, that joke may have been the funniest thing I've ever seen. "Wanna bet?" That is some seriously funny . It's really a shame that we don't have some sort or award for that kind of wit. You know what would be cool? If we came up with some sort of ribbon or belt or something that we could give to people to go along with recognizing a great post. Maybe you should start a campaign and try to get something started.

POTD?

/half-sarcasm

[RyanMcD29]

Wade Boggs, Steve Garvey, and Pete Rose are sitting on a park bench when a pretty lady walks by. "I've slept with her" says Boggs. "Well, she's carrying my child", says Garvey, Rose replies, "Wanna bet?"

Did the loser have to hold a celebrity billfish tournament?

[Gothamite]

I feel bad for the city of Cincinnati.

They're one of the few cities that really loves baseball. The baseball universe will be in their town in three weeks, and celebrating the best the sport can offer is going to be dwarfed by these newly-announced Pete Rose findings. Now Rose wasn't going to be the centerpiece of the All-Star festivities, but he was going to be a part of it. This is an event the city and the team has been planning for years. If Rose stays a part of the festivities or not, he's now the main talking point when everyone arrives in Cincinnati.

ESPN really screwed over the city on this one. They really couldn't wait a month or during the offseason?

Blame the Reds - they decided to get in bed with the scumbag.

[Mac the Knife]

Oops.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986

Scumbag.

Hope his last defenders are finally shamed into silence.

Of course not. Mike Schmidt is among those still saying Pete deserves reinstatement. Some people are delusional to a degree I cannot fathom.

...And any hope for the Hall of Fame is now toast.

I wonder if the Commissioner is going to retract the offer for him to be at the All-Star game in Cincinnati?

First, there wasn't any HOF hope anyway - even if Rose is ever reinstated, the HOF's veterans committee won't elect him. And there's no offer extended to Rose to participate in the ASG ceremonies in Cincinnati, or at least not one made by Major League Baseball. The Reds could've asked MLB's permission to invite him (we'd likely have heard by now if they had), but MLB did not.

Still would vote him in, I wouldnt give him a job in baseball obviously but I don't see what him getting into the hall of fame or making appearances is gonna hurt.

For baseball, gambling on the sport is the unforgivable sin because it strikes at the very heart of the integrity of the game. If you induct into its HOF a former player on whom you have documented evidence (not rumor, not suspicion, but evidence) that they committed that sin? You render every other violation of the rules of baseball as forgivable, redeemable - and you also eliminate or at least mitigate a deterrent against anyone else who's dumb enough to consider betting on baseball in the future.

[NJTank]

In the NFL in 1963 Paul Hornuning a beloved NFL Hall of Famer bet on NFL games and was suspended one year, everyone moved on he came back and is now in the Hall of Fame.

Why is the Baseball Hall of Fame committing suicide by excluded so many great players for stupid reasons, Bonds, Clemens players I loathe btw its a crime they are not in.

Stop the Bull :censored:. Rose did his time let him in.

[Gothamite]

Rose did his time let him in.

How on earth has he "done his time"? He's lied, evaded, avoided taking responsibility, and defamed the people who caught him in his lies.

If he had come clean back when he was originally caught, then I could see making the argument. But he's been lying right up until last month if not more recently.

Just because time passes doesn't mean Rose has actually done any time.

[OnWis97]

Yes, he is a scumbag. He'll probably continue to lie about this for years to come.

I don't want to get completed roasted, but he was a great player. I think he deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame.

And, while he bet on baseball, I don't think that he stole championships with his gambling like the Patriots probably did with what they were doing. Rose had the book thrown at him, while NE's transgressions are swept under the rug. That isn't right.

First, MLB does not need to look at the NFL ... two different organizations.

Second, without getting into the Patriots argument too much, this is just one of many little advantages a team has found...the NFL needs to clean this up but there is no way things like this threaten the very integrity of the game the way that gambling does. People directly involved in the game gambling on it takes it a step toward being pro wrestling (which would make it pretty popular here). To boot, Rose bet on his own team...at least as a manager. Is it as bad as betting against your own team? Maybe not, but when a manager bets on his own team, that kinda means he's betting against them on the other days; do what you can to win on Tuesday (wear out your best reliever, etc.) at the expense of Wednesday. I think athletes have to be careful with gambling in general but couldn't he have just bet on football? Played golf for money, Jordan style? Boxing? Basketball? It's kinda seedy but at least it's not a potential impact on his sport. If Pete Rose was known as a degenerate who bet too much on football, he'd be in the Hall of Fame and I (and others) would not really have a problem with him. Betting on your own sport, at best, is using your "inside knowledge" and at worst, threatens the very existence of the sport.

Regarding Tank's post, I am not sure what the rules were in the 1960s in the NFL with regards to gambling. Was there a sign posted in every locker room like in MLB? Was the idea of athletes gambling on their own sport even a "thing?" If so, then, I'd argue that Hornung got off super easy and should also not be in the HOF. If not, then maybe some slack can be cut. Either way, Rose deserves what he gets.

I was a hanger-on to the "ban him from MLB but let him in the Hall" idea. This about does it for me. If for no other reason, the message must be sent that nobody's messing around with this. It is a bigger threat to the game than steroids, scuffed balls, adjusting batting gloves, and crotch grabbing combined.

[TheOldRoman]

People directly involved in the game gambling on it takes it a step toward being pro wrestling (which would make it pretty popular here).

"Oh my. The manager is knocked out. Wait... THAT'S BILLY MARTIN'S MUSIC! HE'S BACK! I never thought I'd see it, but Billy Martin has returned to restore order and... OH GAWD NO! HE'S SHAKING HANDS WITH STEINBRENNER! HOW COULD YOU, GEORGE?! DAMN YOU!"

[Gothamite]

That's an oddly appropriate combination.

[NJTank]

The Hall of Fame is being ruined by great players being kept out. Its time the Baseball Hall of Fame get off its high moral horse, realize people are human and let the numbers speak for themselves. Let everyone who did great things on the field. Steroids, even betting. I think you keep it an issue longer by banning Rose and Bonds.

The NBA has even let point shavers in the Hall of Fame, and there was rumors Ty Cobb gambled, that the 1914 Philadelphia A's threw the World Series. Gaylord Perry was a flagrant rule breaker. You can not keep this high and mighty attitude and not start hurting the sport. Pete Rose's 4256 need to be recognized. .

[MDGP]

You guys really think Pete Rose was the only guy doing this? Seriously?

I'm willing to admit, Pete Rose was a moron. But this "sanctity" and "tradition" of the game argument is complete and utter bull . Baseball has a long and storied tradition of great players being cheaters and degenerates, and acting like Pete Rose is some sort of isolated instance is being as delusional as the people who continue to think he's innocent.

Also, Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall of Fame.

[OnWis97]

I don't think anyone believes that Rose is the only person connected with MLB to bet on MLB. Nevertheless, MLB (and all leagues) need to set a strong precedent against gambling. There are tons of degenerates, sure. Ty Cobb is believed to have murdered someone. Unsavory characters are kind of a part of baseball lore.

Gambling's different. The fact that some guys may not have been caught is neither here nor there...if they do get caught, they should be punished too. And honestly, I highly doubt any of the greats from, say, the mid-1990s to today (and beyond) gambled on baseball. Why would someone making seven figures risk it all to make far less on gambling? The Black Sox did it because they were making peanuts. Salaries never really got out of hand until maybe the late-80s and I'd bet once the league minimum hit six figures, gambling on baseball by baseball players pretty much disappeared.

By the way, I am OK with steroid users getting in, particularly if the evidence points to them using before it became against the rules. I don't think it needs to be "high and mighty" and I don't think off-field transgressions should have much to do with it (though I can live if they, and steroids, impact a voter on a borderline candidate). There cannot be any wiggle room on in-sport gambling. If guys start throwing games, there will no longer be games to throw. It's not about "sanctity" or "tradition". Well, maybe the former, but for the most part it's about "survival."

As for Joe Jackson, he did not play long enough, and even if he had, he did the one thing... I almost feel bad for him (and I think the 3rd Baseman who knew about it but did not even take money) but banning him for life probably served the sport well in the long run.

[NJTank]

Shoeless Joe did play long enough, 12 years is well beyond the required 10 and has the third highest batting average in MLB history.

[OnWis97]

Wow. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought he was much younger in 1919...like in his 3rd year or something.

[Gothamite]

You guys really think Pete Rose was the only guy doing this? Seriously?

No, not seriously. Nice strawman there.

Rose wasn't the only guy breaking this rule. There are probably guys breaking it today. And when they get caught, they shoukd receive exactly the same punishment.

Baseball has had one cardinal rule for players since the Black Sox. It's posted in every locker room, and every single player knows the risks. If somebody wants to break that rule, that's their call. But then they have to take the consequences like a grown-up.

[bosrs1]

You guys really think Pete Rose was the only guy doing this? Seriously?

No, not seriously. Nice strawman there.

Rose wasn't the only guy breaking this rule. There are probably guys breaking it today. And when they get caught, they shoukd receive exactly the same punishment.

Baseball has had one cardinal rule for players since the Black Sox. It's posted in every locker room, and every single player knows the risks. If somebody wants to break that rule, that's their call. But then they have to take the consequences like a grown-up.

This. It's non-negotiable. Rose has been playing the victim for 25 years when he knew exactly what he was doing and what the consequences would be. Time for him to accept he dug his own baseball grave and he has to lay in it the rest of his life. If he wants forgiveness, find a church, it's divine.

[OnWis97]

You guys really think Pete Rose was the only guy doing this? Seriously?

No, not seriously. Nice strawman there.

Rose wasn't the only guy breaking this rule. There are probably guys breaking it today. And when they get caught, they shoukd receive exactly the same punishment.

Baseball has had one cardinal rule for players since the Black Sox. It's posted in every locker room, and every single player knows the risks. If somebody wants to break that rule, that's their call. But then they have to take the consequences like a grown-up.

Given the salaries, I actually question that. Maybe locker room attendants that know the extent of injuries, but I don't know that a player can make it worth his while.

[Norva]

If you screw up at your job and break a huge rule, you probably won't ever get rehired by that company. It's the same concept here really.

And the HoF is a nice little perk for doing well at your job, but it's not like the death penalty or something. It just means you don't get a bronze plaque so I really can't feel to bad about him not getting in "deserved" or not.

[pmoehrin]

What people keep forgetting about Rose is that he was offered a plea deal from the MLB before their investigation even started. They had the cases of Paul Hornung and Alex Karras as precedents. Both got hit with a year suspension, but that was the end of it.

The only real difference between Rose's case and Hornung's and Karras' is that both Karras and Hornung admitted to it. Rose never did until over a decade later and that's all Peter Uberroth and later Bart Giamatti ever really wanted. There was no need to bring in John Dowd to investigate Pete Rose until Rose made it such.

The gambling is certainly part of it, but his punishment was not about making an example of what can happen to a player if he bets on a game. It was about making an example of someone who thinks they're above the rules and refuses to admit when they're wrong.