Pro football hall of fame 2015

[sportzfan]

I'll be upset if Marvin Harrison isn't in Canton next year.

He will be. No other major wideout is in play besides Terrell Owens, who's in his first year (receivers don't usually get in year one, unless you're the GOAT).

Don't forget "Isaac Holt".

Neither of whom are on the same level as Harrison.

Exactly. When you catch 143 passes in 2002 (which is still the record), averaged 84.77 receptions per season (2nd behind Sterling Sharpe and averaging 93 receptions per season before injuries), and holds 48 NFL records including being part of the greatest QB-WR duo of all time (Manning to Harrison), you deserve to be inducted to Canton. Also having a Super Bowl ring helps too. Don't get me wrong, Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt are great players (underrated too), but are overshadowed by players like Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, and TO throughout their careers (and that hurts their chances).

They're only overshadowed in the vague sense that both of them took touches away from the other.

That said Bruce has better yards per catch and more receiving yards than Harrison even with that Holt problem, while Holt also has a better yards per catch stat..

Well yards per catch has nothing to do with taking catches away from eachother. They both had large yards per catch because they both had lots of YAC due to being able to shake off tackles.

[rams80]

A lot of the support for Harrison cites the number of receptions he had. Neither Bruce nor Holt get that high when they are together, but that's because there's only so many times you can throw the ball in a game.

[Evil G]

Isaac Bruce was only a 4x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro. He's very borderline, and his case is how many career yards he has.

Torry Holt has a much better case, 7x Pro Bowler and 2x All-Pro (1x First-team). He's also a member of the 2000s All-Decade Team, albeit on the second team.

However, Marvin Harrison just outclasses both. 8x Pro Bowler and 8x All-Pro (3x First-team). Member of the 2000s All-Decade First Team. More career yards than Holt, and only about 700 off from Bruce despite Bruce playing 3 more seasons.

The point about Bruce and Holt being a duo is sorta moot when you consider the fact that their primes were in different years. Plus, Harrison and Reggie Wayne were a duo for a while as well.

TL;DR: Harrison > Holt and Bruce

[rams80]

1. Their primes overlapped. Take it from somebody who actually watched them play in their primes.

2. Pro Bowl is not a great measure when roughly half of the roster is based on fan votes and, well we all know St. Louis is a crappy market when it comes to mobilizing the fans for support.

[Sec19Row53]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

[infrared41]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

[oldschoolvikings]

[Robertsports]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

[Robertsports]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of fame.

Your son is very excited. As far as watching features, how else are they going to learn about players? Maybe he just loves football.

[Raysfan12]

He should've been in Canton a long time ago.

[Robertsports]

He should've been in Canton a long time ago.

Absolutely!!!

[rams80]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

McNabb won't. Warner might if he's up in a year when they're really looking for guys to hit the minimum inductee threshold.

[dfwabel]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

[Robertsports]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

Point Taken. John Brodie's success was definitely bogged down by Joe Montana and Steve Young's success and and John Brodie only won two playoff games. What I said about Steve Deberg was that journeyman quarterbacks, quarterbacks that started for many teams (five or more), don't usual make it into the hall of fame. Steve Deberg played for six different teams. Most of the quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame played for one or two teams, including Joe Montana and Steve Young. The only expectations are Warren Moon and eventually Brett Favre, who played for four different teams.

[dfwabel]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

Point Taken. John Brodie's success was definitely bogged down by Joe Montana and Steve Young's success and and John Brodie only won two playoff games. What I said about Steve Deberg was that journeyman quarterbacks, quarterbacks that started for many teams (five or more), don't usual make it into the hall of fame. Steve Deberg played for six different teams. Most of the quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame played for one or two teams, including Joe Montana and Steve Young. The only expectations are Warren Moon and eventually Brett Favre, who played for four different teams.

STOP.

Brodie retired with an MVP in 1973, thus it was eligible way before Montana earned his first MVP in 1989. Brodie is the longest tenured 49er still today.

[Robertsports]

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

This thread strikes me as how my 14 year old son, who just got REALLY interested in the NFL last year, would sound after watching a feature on some random team on NFL Network. It all comes across as so glowing that those guys must all belong in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, the way we were all tripping over each other to make our cases for Donovan McNabb was pretty embarrassing. And saying Kurt Warner is borderline? Jeez, you'd think we were 12 year olds with that one.

Embarrassing? Both of them are going to be in the Hall of Fame. You just wait and see.

Wait how long?

John Brodie retired after the 1973 season as #3 overall in career passing yards and had both a comeback POY (1965) and league MVP (1970) yet STILL isn't in.

He is getting more traction now since the City of San Francisco is lobbying for his induction and the city Chamber of Commerce will co-sponsor (aka paying for) this year's Super Bowl luncheon and Brodie is their area legend with Madden as their HOF host.

https://sfchamber.com/brodie/

There was Steve DeBerg talk by you earlier. Brodie has equal stats in a totally "run first" era.

Point Taken. John Brodie's success was definitely bogged down by Joe Montana and Steve Young's success and and John Brodie only won two playoff games. What I said about Steve Deberg was that journeyman quarterbacks, quarterbacks that started for many teams (five or more), don't usual make it into the hall of fame. Steve Deberg played for six different teams. Most of the quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame played for one or two teams, including Joe Montana and Steve Young. The only expectations are Warren Moon and eventually Brett Favre, who played for four different teams.

STOP.

Brodie retired with an MVP in 1973, thus it was eligible way before Montana earned his first MVP in 1989. Brodie is the longest tenured 49er still today.

Yes, and he still has the most wins as a 49er quarterback. But he has one MVP. Joe Montana and Steve Young both have two. Before John Brodie, the 49ers and Y.A. Tittle and he had four MVPs. That's why they are in the Hall of Fame. Bert Jones had one MVP.

When you compare him to the other quarterbacks of his time like Y.A. Tittle, Bobby Layne, Otto Graham, Norm Van Brocklin, Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, John Hadl, Len Dawson, Fran Tarkenton, Bob Griese, Joe Namath, and Sonny Jurgensen, he just gets lost in the pool. And unlike Y. A. Tittle, Joe Montana and Steve Young, he is missing the title game appearance. The one stat that they all have in common was yearly touchdown leader. All for of them had two. Y.A. Tittle had three.

[rams80]

I'm gathering Brodie may be an Archie Manning situation, in which the team precluded his getting that title game appearance.

[Robertsports]

1. Their primes overlapped. Take it from somebody who actually watched them play in their primes.

2. Pro Bowl is not a great measure when roughly half of the roster is based on fan votes and, well we all know St. Louis is a crappy market when it comes to mobilizing the fans for support.

Considering that the Rams might want to move back to Los Angeles. Also considering that St Louis already had the cardinals. The Cardinals leaving and the Rams arriving were just seven years apart.

[Robertsports]

I'll be upset if Marvin Harrison isn't in Canton next year.

He will be. No other major wideout is in play besides Terrell Owens, who's in his first year (receivers don't usually get in year one, unless you're the GOAT).

Don't forget "Isaac Holt".

Neither of whom are on the same level as Harrison.

Exactly. When you catch 143 passes in 2002 (which is still the record), averaged 84.77 receptions per season (2nd behind Sterling Sharpe and averaging 93 receptions per season before injuries), and holds 48 NFL records including being part of the greatest QB-WR duo of all time (Manning to Harrison), you deserve to be inducted to Canton. Also having a Super Bowl ring helps too. Don't get me wrong, Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt are great players (underrated too), but are overshadowed by players like Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, and TO throughout their careers (and that hurts their chances).

They're only overshadowed in the vague sense that both of them took touches away from the other.

That said Bruce has better yards per catch and more receiving yards than Harrison even with that Holt problem, while Holt also has a better yards per catch stat..

I think eventually all of them will make it to the Hall of Fame.