mr.nascar13

Death of the Alliance of American Football

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The valid criticism of the AAF's goofy finances and of the lies and incompetence of the league's founders does not justify disparaging the league's good talent level, which led to very entertaining games.

 

The AAF had the level of talent that any league in its position would be expected to have: about one NFL player per team, surrounded by players one step below. If the XFL ends up with talent of the same calibre, the people running that league's teams will be very pleased.

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22 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The valid criticism of the AAF's goofy finances and of the lies and incompetence of the league's founders does not justify disparaging the league's good talent level, which led to very entertaining games.

 

For the millionth time, we all know that minor leagues can be very entertaining.  That doesn’t mean the talent level was anywhere near the NFL. 

 

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22 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The AAF had the level of talent that any league in its position would be expected to have: about one NFL player per team, surrounded by players one step below.

 

One backup or practice squad player per team.  With the rest at least one step below that.  That’s a pretty sizable gulf, much greater than the one between the NFL and the top couple dozen college teams. 

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Where i expect the XFL to leap over the AAF is in the QB position, more $$$ should lead to better talent. I'm not saying the QB's were :censored:e in the AAF or was it receivers dropping alot of balls?? LOL  But there were alot of throws the QBs made where i was like..WTF were they smoking??. In my opinion Landry Jones is already better than any of the starting AAF QB's of last year......

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1 hour ago, mkg74 said:

Where i expect the XFL to leap over the AAF is in the QB position, more $$$ should lead to better talent. I'm not saying the QB's were :censored:e in the AAF or was it receivers dropping alot of balls?? LOL  But there were alot of throws the QBs made where i was like..WTF were they smoking??. In my opinion Landry Jones is already better than any of the starting AAF QB's of last year......

In a league in which sold itself on being "fast paced and high scoring", thus implementing a 15 yard illegal defense penalty, the QBs threw 70 TDs and 67 INTs.

Three teams threw more INT than TD.

Three teams threw as many INT as TD.

Two teams threw more TD than INT by a margin of +18

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?lg=AAF&yr=2019&type=reg&cat=P&group=O&conf=

 

We were given lots of Trent Richardson 2 yard runs in the A-Gap.

 

Y'all who wear that AAF cape don't even bring data, just your eye test telling us, "The games were good".

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2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

For the millionth time, we all know that minor leagues can be very entertaining.  That doesn’t mean the talent level was anywhere near the NFL. 

 

No one has claimed that the talent in the AAF was on par with that of the NFL. But, for the millionth time, players who are a step — even two steps — below NFL-calibre are still elite athletes.

 

40 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Y'all who wear that AAF cape don't even bring data, just your eye test telling us, "The games were good".

 

Yep. I watched the games, and I was entertained, to the point where I looked forward to the next week. That's all I ask out of any competition that I watch for entertainment.

 

So, when someone belittles the level of play in the AAF as though it was crap, this annoys me. I do not claim to be an expert, but I can pretty reliably spot crap. For example, I watched the New York Streets of the NAL all season. That was crap. 

 

By contrast, the AAF was legitimate professional football. And if an average of about one player per AAF team was good enough to at least make an NFL practice squad, this reflects very well on the AAF, and it demonstrates that that league met its expectations in this regard. To expect any new league to do better than that in its first season would be completely unrealistic.

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12 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

No one has claimed that the talent in the AAF was on par with that of the NFL. But, for the millionth time, players who are a step — even two steps — below NFL-calibre are still elite athletes.

 

 

Yep. I watched the games, and I was entertained, to the point where I looked forward to the next week. That's all I ask out of any competition that I watch for entertainment.

 

So, when someone belittles the level of play in the AAF as though it was crap, this annoys me. I do not claim to be an expert, but I can pretty reliably spot crap. For example, I watched the New York Streets of the NAL all season. That was crap. 

 

By contrast, the AAF was legitimate professional football. And if an average of about one player per AAF team was good enough to at least make an NFL practice squad, this reflects very well on the AAF, and it demonstrates that that league met its expectations in this regard. To expect any new league to do better than that in its first season would be completely unrealistic.

Bolded 1: Entertained is one thing. Giving them your money is another and you didn't.  All they ask is that you help in giving them revenue to surviveYou must be a hoot around the winter holidays since you love what they do, donating is meh. 

 

Bolded 2: It "reflects well" for a league which costs $10M/week, failed to finished their season and left dozens of small businesses holding the bag? 

I'd love for you to lend me money.

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4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

One backup or practice squad player per team.  With the rest at least one step below that.  That’s a pretty sizable gulf, much greater than the one between the NFL and the top couple dozen college teams. 

 

And also a step below CFL players since I don't think any AAF players signed with any of the CFL teams when the league folded.

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15 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Entertained is one thing. Giving them your money is another and you didn't.

 

(For the sake of this nice lively argument, I shall graciously overlook the fact that it's none of your business how I spend my money.)

 

First of all, I had no obligation to give any money to this league. The AAF's games appeared on my television one day, and it was my decision whether to watch or not to watch. That's how entertainment works. I watched, and, as it happened, I liked it. So I kept watching.

 

Secondly, I did not give them any money, but this was not for a lack of trying. I visited a few Modell's locations looking for gear, and I went to Lids stores and plenty of independent hat shops (and called up several others) looking for AAF hats. If it had been possible, I would have bought at least a hat with the league logo, and probably also a hat from the Atlanta Legends (the team with the best logo and the best colours). 

 

But that stuff wasn't available — which is someone else's problem, definitely not mine.

 

 

32 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

You must be a hoot around the winter holidays since you love what they do, donating is meh. 

 

I am always a hoot, as I am a great raconteur, and a renowned master of the bon mot. But the last time I bought a holiday present for anyone was probably about forty years ago.

 

 

36 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

It "reflects well" for a league which costs $10M/week, failed to finished their season and left dozens of small businesses holding the bag? 

 

There you go again. 

 

Look, the league was founded initially by a weasly (if generally well-intentioned) goofball who expected, but did not get, help from a shady and secretive crook. Ultimately it was taken over by an artless, dead-eyed vulture. Behind the scenes, the AAF was a dysfunctional mess from start to finish.

 

Yet (and here's the important part) it hired good players and excellent coaches, and staged exciting football games, games which were presented on television with outstanding production values and superb announcers. 

 

Even if you want to denounce the irresponsibility and the possible criminality of the founders, as well as the childish impatience and the total lack of wisdom of the ultimate owner, you must not ignore that the games were fun to watch. And for a fan (as opposed to an investor or a creditor), that's what matters most.

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31 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

First of all, I had no obligation to give any money to this league. The AAF's games appeared on my television one day, and it was my decision whether to watch or not to watch. That's how entertainment works. I watched, and, as it happened, I liked it. So I kept watching.

 

Secondly, I did not give them any money, but this was not for a lack of trying. stor or a creditor), that's what matters most.

While true, if you really, really wanted to want this mess of a league to survive, buying tickets to even donate would've been seen as a positive to both Ebersol and Dundon. 

 

Buy tickets to give them to a local charity.  You knowingly knew that unlike the sitcom/drama/reality show you see on TV, you knew the AAF depended off the live gate.

 

A hat is just a 8-12% royalty on the goods sold. 

 

Salt Lake, Atlanta, Memphis and Birmingham were terrible

 

Edited by dfwabel

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3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

... I am a great raconteur, and a renowned master of the bon mot.

 

Yes, I'm sure delivering amusing aphorisms about how to tell an offensive lineman from a defensive lineman - in Esperanto, no less - marks you as the Noel Coward of the New York Dragons Appreciation Society. 

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7 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Even if you want to denounce the irresponsibility and the possible criminality of the founders, as well as the childish impatience and the total lack of wisdom of the ultimate owner, you must not ignore that the games were fun to watch. 

 

You have built a lovely straw man there.  

 

Nobody's arguing that the games weren’t ever fun.  Minor league sports can be very fun.  Even lower-level minor leagues. 

 

I would say hat the AAF games were worth exactly what you were willing to pay for them. 😛

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3 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

You have built a lovely straw man there.  

 

Nobody's arguing that the games weren’t ever fun.

 

No straw man. One guy is consistently discounting the league's level of play, as are you when you rank the AAF below college football.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Even lower-level minor leagues. 

 

Case in point. 

 

The AAF was fun to watch because the talent level was so high — in contrast to the NAL, which I tolerated watching for other reasons.

 

The UFL and the FXFL were lower-level minor leagues. The AAF was not. This league was as close to the level of the NFL as any independent league not paying millions could possibly get. And having an average of one player per team get signed by the NFL demonstrates that. 

 

Only in the bizarre netherworld of this thread would that not be enough. The AAF as a business fiasco is one thing. But to insist on underrating the quality of league's on-field product is just not sensible.

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Do you honestly think that the talent level was higher than the Big Five conferences?  Those teams tend to have a lot more than one practice-squad member on them...

 

You seem to think that I’m insulting the AAF by calling it a lower-level minor league.  But it’s an easy statement to defend; I would put the talent level below the NFL, the CFL, and NCAA Division One.  Easily. 

 

So what does that leave us with?  Minor-league football.  Entertaining minor-league football, but minor-league nonetheless.  Which still isn’t an insult.  And still worth every penny you were willing to spend on it. 😉

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

So what does that leave us with?  Minor-league football.  Entertaining minor-league football, but minor-league nonetheless.  Which still isn’t an insult.  And still worth every penny you were willing to spend on it. 😉

 

Indeed. There’s no shame in liking it or supporting it with ratings, but don’t try to pretend that it was something more than minor-league football that tried to be an NFL feeder. Even as a “developmental” league, it might not have lived up to its potential. 

 

There’s no shame in liking it, just don’t be deluded about its nature.

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I watched as many AAF games as my schedule would allow me. As much I loved watching these games, it was ACC-tier on a good day and the league was ran into the ground by a bunch of clowns. 

 

I'll enjoy the XFL as long as it lasts. Hell, I'll probably actually go to a few games in St. Louis because why the hell not? If the XFL is Big Ten tier, I'll be very happy.

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11 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

And also a step below CFL players since I don't think any AAF players signed with any of the CFL teams when the league folded.

 

Off the top of my head, there were a few players signed by CFL teams, but they were players who were previously in the CFL and had left for the AAF.

 

(That doesn't change the fact the AAF was still below the CFL)

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

And still worth every penny you were willing to spend on it.

 

Again with this. Very silly. If that's the standard, then the AAF is at the exact same level as the NFL, because I spent the same on both leagues: zero.  In the past thirty years, I have paid for a ticket to a sporting event once: a New York CityHawks game at Madison Square Garden in 1998.  I don't enjoy attending games; I enjoy watching games on television.   The only monetary support that I will give to any league or team is to buy a hat, as I have done with teams ranging from the awful New York Streets of the NAL to the MLL's New York Lizards to the New York Sportimes of World Team Tennis, and even the New York / New Jersey Hitmen of the original XFL.  (The idea that I should have bought AAF tickets and given them away is one of the sillier things I have read lately.)

 

 

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

You seem to think that I’m insulting the AAF by calling it a lower-level minor league.

 

You are.  It was a high-level minor league.  Perhaps you missed my mentions of the UFL and FXFL; those were low-level leagues.

 

 

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

I would put the talent level below the NFL, the CFL, and NCAA Division One.

 

It certainly was below the NFL and CFL, which are major leagues.  It was above the vast majority of NCAA Division 1, with exceptions for a few top programs in the biggest conferences.

 

 

27 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Indeed. There’s no shame in liking it or supporting it with ratings, but don’t try to pretend that it was something more than minor-league football that tried to be an NFL feeder.

 

I am not pretending anything; that's exactly what it was.  If the league's financial backing had been as advertised and the league had survived, players who had been cut by NFL or CFL teams but who were not ready to hang it up would have played there; and surely some of them would have found other jobs in the NFL. We never got to see this play out; but even in the AAF's lone truncated season it sent a handful of players to the NFL.  That could happen only if NFL teams considered the film on an AAF player to be meaningful.

 

By contrast, I think the UFL sent a grand total of about three or four players to the NFL (including one kicker) after four years of operation.

 

 

49 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

There’s no shame in liking it, just don’t be deluded about its nature.

 

I don't think that anyone is saying there is shame in liking the AAF.  Also, I watch plenty of stuff that is clearly low-level, without feeling any shame.  I watch the Arena League, the IFL, and the NAL (OK, the New York Streets are a little shameful); I have even watched several games from the A7FL, a seven-on-seven league that plays tackle football with no gear.  That is in descending order of quality; the only thing below the A7FL is a pick-up game in your local park.

 

But the AAF was far above any of that.  For the salaries it was paying, it got remarkably good talent.  In baseball terms, it was clearly somewhere between AA and AAA.  What would be deluded would be to deny this.

 

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AA Football? Okay, I can buy that. I like going to the local ECHL game in town and the difference between that and the NHL is equivalent to the difference between the AAF and the NFL. I expect the XFL to be of somewhat better quality if only for the fact that they have had more time to develop their league.

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The thing I don't understand is when people say "non-NFL Pro football" they disregard the CFL.  Sure, they have a different set of rules, which makes them unique and not "NFL Canada" and they play north of the Border but it's still gridiron football.  The CFL still uses the same basic terminology the NFL and American football uses (example, Bo Levi Mitchell of the Calgary Stampeders is a Quarterback, same as Aaron Rodgers.  He isn't called "Thrower" or "Thrower Back" in Canada.  He's a QB).  They will still be around long after the XFL is gone.  When the XFL kicks off, it'll probably be business as usual in the CFL (although hopefully by finally adding the Atlantic Schooners).  No matter how many leagues come and go, one common denominator remains: the CFL will still be around when all of those leagues go away. 

 

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