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The Montreal-Tampa Rays?

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I love Quebec, Montreal, the Expos, and the elb, but this is preposterous. Its inevitable failure will only make people rag on Montreal baseball even more than they already do.

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On 6/21/2019 at 2:06 PM, McCarthy said:

Everyone in Tampa younger than 30 is a Lightning fan? What's the difference between them and the Rays? The Lightning play in a nice and accessible building.

 

Also, the Lightning have successfully gamed hockey players' aversions to media pressure and income taxes to build a team that both retains and further acquires elite talent without exceeding players' market value to do so. The Rays enjoy the same advantages but trade their players away as soon as they even threaten to earn market value -- largely because they don't make any money, which in turn is largely because they don't have a nice and accessible building.

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1 hour ago, the admiral said:

they don't make any money, which in turn is largely because they don't have a nice and accessible building.

 

Well, that is what they say, but it is far from certain.

 

I suspect we may never know, since I think relocation outside of the Tampa Bay area is somewhat more likely than relocation within it. 

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10 hours ago, the admiral said:

I love Quebec, Montreal, the Expos, and the elb, but this is preposterous. Its inevitable failure will only make people rag on Montreal baseball even more than they already do.

What? Every 5 posts on this thread, the one talking about branding, and any other time the Rays come up is “just move the team for good already”.

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This forum doesn’t represent the opinions of anyone outside of its members when it comes to any topic. My anecdotal evidence from “average Joe” is that the expos were a joke that played in a lousy-crumbling stadium. “Average Joe” doesn’t realize that they moved to DC. 

 

That doesn’t  necessarily represent the majority either.  

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I'm curious...has anyone here been to MLB games both at the Metrodome and the Trop?  If so, is one appreciably worse than the other?

 

I, of course, have been to many games at the Metrodome.  But I've never had the "pleasure" of going to the Trop.  The Metrodome was just so sterile...I've been to 30 MLB parks (counting defunct; the Metrodome is the only full-time dome I've been to) and it's the worst one by far.  Not sure whether the Trop is as bad, but it cannot be that much better.

 

That all said, the Twins did draw well at the Dome when the team was doing well.  The Rays don't even seem to draw during good times.  As far as I can tell, there are two key possibilities: 1) The interest in baseball / the local club is just not there or 2) the location is really that difference-making.  The Metrodome had one thing going for it; its downtown location.  But I question whether it's a good idea to bank on location / dumpy park are the problem, to the tune of, say $1 billion (and at least half public).

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3 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

I'm curious...has anyone here been to MLB games both at the Metrodome and the Trop?  If so, is one appreciably worse than the other?

 

I, of course, have been to many games at the Metrodome.  But I've never had the "pleasure" of going to the Trop.  The Metrodome was just so sterile...I've been to 30 MLB parks (counting defunct; the Metrodome is the only full-time dome I've been to) and it's the worst one by far.  Not sure whether the Trop is as bad, but it cannot be that much better.

 

That all said, the Twins did draw well at the Dome when the team was doing well.  The Rays don't even seem to draw during good times.  As far as I can tell, there are two key possibilities: 1) The interest in baseball / the local club is just not there or 2) the location is really that difference-making.  The Metrodome had one thing going for it; its downtown location.  But I question whether it's a good idea to bank on location / dumpy park are the problem, to the tune of, say $1 billion (and at least half public).

I have.  Originally, The Trop was designed as Kaufman Stadium (before its1997 renovation) but with a dome.  I don't think it was really completed until the mid-2000'.  Metrodome seemed more cramped on the concourse to me and lots of bare concrete

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Press conference Tuesday the 25th at 1pm eastern about the Rays.  Assumingly to clear the air about this Montreal stuff.

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5 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

I'm curious...has anyone here been to MLB games both at the Metrodome and the Trop?  If so, is one appreciably worse than the other?

 

I, of course, have been to many games at the Metrodome.  But I've never had the "pleasure" of going to the Trop.  The Metrodome was just so sterile...I've been to 30 MLB parks (counting defunct; the Metrodome is the only full-time dome I've been to) and it's the worst one by far.  Not sure whether the Trop is as bad, but it cannot be that much better.

 

That all said, the Twins did draw well at the Dome when the team was doing well.  The Rays don't even seem to draw during good times.  As far as I can tell, there are two key possibilities: 1) The interest in baseball / the local club is just not there or 2) the location is really that difference-making.  The Metrodome had one thing going for it; its downtown location.  But I question whether it's a good idea to bank on location / dumpy park are the problem, to the tune of, say $1 billion (and at least half public).

The interest is definitely there. The Rays consistently get high TV ratings, and I always see a bunch of people with Rays shirts or hats on.

 

I'd say it's a mix of terrible location, terrible stadium in general, and (for most of their history) terrible team. Many still think of the Rays as a bottom of the table team, one not worth paying as much as they charge to see - even in seasons like this, where they aren't bad.

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I last went to Tropicana Field in 2010ish. It looks like the bastard child of a stadium, warehouse, and an early 90s cut-rate office building if it were possible for them to procreate. The main rotunda meant to evoke Ebbets Field looks more like something you see in a dying mall. Different areas of the concourse had their own “character” which ranged from sterile concrete to drop ceilings to Joe DiMaggio in comic book form. The trimmings on the scoreboard reminded me of a cheap baseball-theme carnival funhouse. The lights inside are low so you have a constant glare. The turf looked poorly maintained and had a weird shine. I think they still had the orange leaf gradient on the walls/catwalks which evoked Rainforest Cafe.

 

The banners in the rafters and the museum were cool though. We set in right field a few rows in front of former Marlins GM Larry Beinfest and his kids. The Marlins infield dropped an infield pop-up and when we turned around he did that thing where he knew you were looking at him but didn’t want to make eye contact.

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The old Progressive Boink had a fantastic write-up of Tropicana Field's weirdness (your mention of the Joe DiMaggio comic book hero jogged my memory), but I think you need to scrape through the Wayback Machine to find it now.


EDIT: so I did

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17 hours ago, AstroBull21 said:

Press conference Tuesday the 25th at 1pm eastern about the Rays.  Assumingly to clear the air about this Montreal stuff.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Sternberg has to say today. Hopefully, someone will remind him of his promise.

 

May 2007: Principal owner Stuart Sternberg clarified comments in a The New York Times story, saying there is no deadline for a new ballpark and he will stick to his promise to never demand one. When Sternberg took over the team in October 2005 he pledged he would never demand a new stadium, and Tuesday he reiterated that promise. "Absolutely,'' he said. "I was extra clear a year and a half ago, and nothing has changed.''

 

never adverb

nev·er | \ ˈne-vər \

Definition of never

1: not ever : at no time

2: not in any degree : not under any condition

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13 hours ago, marlinfan said:

I last went to Tropicana Field in 2010ish. It looks like the bastard child of a stadium, warehouse, and an early 90s cut-rate office building if it were possible for them to procreate. The main rotunda meant to evoke Ebbets Field looks more like something you see in a dying mall. Different areas of the concourse had their own “character” which ranged from sterile concrete to drop ceilings to Joe DiMaggio in comic book form. The trimmings on the scoreboard reminded me of a cheap baseball-theme carnival funhouse. The lights inside are low so you have a constant glare. The turf looked poorly maintained and had a weird shine. I think they still had the orange leaf gradient on the walls/catwalks which evoked Rainforest Cafe.

 

The banners in the rafters and the museum were cool though. We set in right field a few rows in front of former Marlins GM Larry Beinfest and his kids. The Marlins infield dropped an infield pop-up and when we turned around he did that thing where he knew you were looking at him but didn’t want to make eye contact.

If I give Stu Sternberg credit for something, he invests money into the Trop to upgrade the amenities.  Since your visit theyve done the folllwoing:

 

- Replaced the turf at least 3 times (twice in the past 2-3 years) and the new surface for 2019 really seems like a good match.

- Added LED stadium lighting in 2019, with colored uplighting and better standard lights.

- Created a full almost-360 concourse within view of the field, the only blocked section is immediately behind the plate.

- Got rid of the batters eye restaurant, and opened up the walls to make it a social space in CF.

- New for 2019, the Left Field ledge with 4-top table seating.

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16 minutes ago, Survival79 said:

 

It'll be interesting to see what Sternberg has to say today. Hopefully, someone will remind him of his promise.

 

May 2007: Principal owner Stuart Sternberg clarified comments in a The New York Times story, saying there is no deadline for a new ballpark and he will stick to his promise to never demand one. When Sternberg took over the team in October 2005 he pledged he would never demand a new stadium, and Tuesday he reiterated that promise. "Absolutely,'' he said. "I was extra clear a year and a half ago, and nothing has changed.''

 

never adverb

nev·er | \ ˈne-vər \

Definition of never

1: not ever : at no time

2: not in any degree : not under any condition

You're focusing on the wrong parts. "never demand ONE" "never demand A new stadium"... If he demands two, and he maybe gets one, well now that's a horse of a different color.

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I can't remember where I saw this so it could be way off and take this as you will, but I read somewhere about a study they did that I think was about Chicago Fire and I think they said that for every mile you're outside the central point of a city you cost yourself 500 would-be attenders per game. If true, and that rings sound to me, imagine the stadium is on the other side of a huge bridge, surrounded by water, has no public transportation access, and also it sucks. 

 

I spontaneously go to Reds games all the time. So do lots of other people. Such an outing is basically impossible for a lot of folks in the Tampa Bay metro. Imagine you're a parent who works downtown and gets some free tickets to that night's Rays game. You're going to leave your office at 5, you drove to work because it's Tampa and you have to drive so you drive your car to your home in some northern burb, sit in rush hour traffic, pick up your kids, drive to the stadium because there's no public transportation so you have to drive. Now you're going back through rush hour the other way, through the city, across a bridge, etc. You're looking at 90 minutes from your desk to your house and to the front gate, if you're lucky. Good luck even seeing the first pitch. Most people would just politely decline the tickets and watch the game from the comfort of their couch. 

 

Their problem is bad location made worse by the stadium not being a desirable place to visit. End of story. 

 

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17 hours ago, Magic Dynasty said:

The interest is definitely there. The Rays consistently get high TV ratings, and I always see a bunch of people with Rays shirts or hats on.

 

I'd say it's a mix of terrible location, terrible stadium in general, and (for most of their history) terrible team. Many still think of the Rays as a bottom of the table team, one not worth paying as much as they charge to see - even in seasons like this, where they aren't bad.

 

Eh, they've been pretty consistently good for the last 11 years.

 

Hmm.  Now that I look up the numbers I guess before last year, they did have a 4 year run of roughly .500 baseball.  But of the remaining 7 years, 6 of them were 90 wins or more, and the one that wasn't was 84 wins.

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19 hours ago, AstroBull21 said:

Press conference Tuesday the 25th at 1pm eastern about the Rays.  Assumingly to clear the air about this Montreal stuff.

"We're not doing the Montreal thing." End of press conference.

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