Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[BBTV]

More details on NJ's offer for the Sixers.  I'm a little confused as to the financing, but it sounds like it'd still be privately financed, BUTTTTTT, NJ could/would provide $1.3B of credits and bonds.

 

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2024/09/sixers-owners-man-card-in-jeopardy-as-team-takes-new-jersey-arena-proposal-seriously.html

 

Officials from the state of New Jersey sent details to the owners of the Philadelphia 76ers regarding an opportunity to use state-owned land in Camden for a massive mixed-use development that would include a world-class arena as well as commercial, residential and retail offerings, ROI-NJ has learned.

 

The multibillion-dollar project, championed by Gov. Phil Murphy and supported by the Legislature, would be built on the former state prison site area that is adjacent to the Delaware River and north of the Ben Franklin Bridge.

 

The project, which would be self-financed by Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment (the entity that owns the Sixers), would be eligible for hundreds of millions of dollars in tax incentives.

 

Because the project would contain both an arena and a full-scale mixed-use component, HBSE could be eligible to receive two Aspire tax credits worth up to $400 million each.

 

In addition, the Governor’s Office aims to work with the Legislature to enable the structuring of up to $500 million of special-purpose bonds supported by fees and surcharges on tickets, concessions and parking (meaning there will be no impact to New Jersey taxpayers) to support the development of an arena.

[The_Admiral]

I can't get over the fact that it's Camden. This is like when the Bears tried to move to Gary.

[FiddySicks]

Not knowing anything about the dynamics of how things work in that area I have a question. 
 

Is this going to be like a 49ers situation where they’re not in the city they’re named after but nobody cares, or is like an Angels situation where most people don’t care that they don’t play in the city they’re named after, but enough will to make it a headache? 
 

Like, we’re not gonna get the Philadelphia 76ers of Camden, NJ, are we? 

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

The NJ Nets ceasing to exist only for the New Jersey 76ers to become a thing would be proof we live in the most cursed timeline

[BBTV]

32 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Not knowing anything about the dynamics of how things work in that area I have a question. 
 

Is this going to be like a 49ers situation where they’re not in the city they’re named after but nobody cares, or is like an Angels situation where most people don’t care that they don’t play in the city they’re named after, but enough will to make it a headache? 
 

Like, we’re not gonna get the Philadelphia 76ers of Camden, NJ, are we? 

 

Our aquarium is in Camden, and our larger outdoor concert venue is in Camden.  As for naming, it'd certainly stay Philadelphia and nobody would care other than the same dopes that complain about the NY Giants / Jets.

 

In the mid '90s when they were actually signed on the dotted line to move there, they were going to remain Philadelphia (though remove "Philadelphia" from the top of the waterfall jerseys.)  Then the Flyers bought them to have them fill dates in the new arena and tore up whatever papers were in place for Camden.

[Luigi74]

15 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Not knowing anything about the dynamics of how things work in that area I have a question. 
 

Is this going to be like a 49ers situation where they’re not in the city they’re named after but nobody cares, or is like an Angels situation where most people don’t care that they don’t play in the city they’re named after, but enough will to make it a headache? 
 

Like, we’re not gonna get the Philadelphia 76ers of Camden, NJ, are we? 

People will joke about it but ultimately not care, the arena would be directly across the river from Philly and I think actually closer to Center City than their current arena.

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

The Philadelphia 1776ers of New Jersey has a certain horrific ring to it

[BBTV]

Plot twist: the Sixers are “altering the deal” to say that despite their claim of asking for $0 public money, they want a clause that says that if ANY arena built in the city gets public dollars, then they get a payment for the same amount of public money. 
 

I don’t think arenas should get public dollars, but this could be a poison pill because it ensures that NO future arena can get any public money because that money would essentially be double. It’s not likely that a new arena will be built within the next 20 years, but to me, this was a plan the whole time so that they can now guarantee that they won’t be approved but still say “hey we tried… see ya”. 

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, Luigi74 said:

People will joke about it but ultimately not care, the arena would be directly across the river from Philly and I think actually closer to Center City than their current arena.

closer (maybe… center city is big) but farther away, both for most city residents due to needing PATCO or ferry, and to a sizable portion of the suburban base. Plus tolls. 

[FiddySicks]

Rumblings, from Scott Boras of all people, that the A’s to Sac may disintegrate in the next few days. More to come, I would assume. 

[The_Admiral]

Just now, FiddySicks said:

Rumblings, from Scott Boras of all people, that the A’s to Sac may disintegrate in the next few days. More to come, I would assume. 

Did we call it or did we call it. There were always serious concerns about this plan that never seemed to get proper consideration, i.e., is the players' union down with three years in a minor-league facility where it's hot as hell.

[The_Admiral]

Wait, they were going to play on plastic grass? on 100-degree days? Oh they gotta shut this down. You can't subject players to that, especially when you haven't even secured a permanent venue.

 

This just confirms that the A's need to stick around in Oakland and separate Fisher from the team. Promise an expansion team to Las Vegas if you have to but this has been bungled.

[GDAWG]

Manfred will find a way to keep the A's from coming back to Oakland.  He hasn't bungled anything this bad since he bungled the Astros cheating scandal.  

[FiddySicks]

6 hours ago, The_Admiral said:

Wait, they were going to play on plastic grass? on 100-degree days? Oh they gotta shut this down. You can't subject players to that, especially when you haven't even secured a permanent venue.

 

This just confirms that the A's need to stick around in Oakland and separate Fisher from the team. Promise an expansion team to Las Vegas if you have to but this has been bungled.

I used to go to a junior college just east of Sac and their very good football team played on a turf field. One of the reasons their team was very good  was because they put out guys like Brandon Aiyuk, but the other reason was the home field advantage they had. Some weeks early in the season it would get around 105 on game day (they also didn’t have lights, so they would play Saturday games at like 1 PM), and it would be like 125+ on the actual field. Other teams couldn’t keep up. Also because of that, despite them being VERY good (I think they lost the national championship my first year there), I went to maybe three games because screw catching a bad case of heat exhaustion on a Saturday. 
 

Raley field is MISERABLE for mid day games in the summer already. I wore a damn rubber gorilla suit there all summer once. But the river being close, and the grass, absolutely help. I’m not sure I even wanna go to RiverCats games anymore after hearing this. 

[The_Admiral]

I don't really follow drum and bugle corps anymore, not sure that particular activity came out of MeToo and the pandemic in one piece, but I know that they used to run practices at Texas high schools in the middle of July. I mean, they ran 'em everywhere, but in recent years they pivoted hard to touring Texas instead of the Midwest/Northeast. At least one time, they did so on plastic, surface temperatures circa 125 degrees, and a bunch of kids passed out--I think there were new rules about allowing kids to stay hydrated after that. I can't understand how high schools can spring for artificial surfaces and claim it's safer, healthier, and more cost-effective than groundskeeping. Then again, I can't imagine how human beings thought they invented a superior alternative to grass.

 

Imagine scrapping your way through the minor leagues to make it to the bigs with the A's and then you have to deal with minor-league amenities and field conditions that are now even worse than what you put up with in the minors. It's not acceptable to players. It's not acceptable to spectators, gorilla-suited or otherwise. It's barely even acceptable to television viewers, where one could mistake an MLB game for public access. I always said this would be stopped at the eleventh hour and we have come to it. Here's hoping.

[DustDevil61]

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

[LMU]

I'm curious if "wear and tear" is really that much of an issue with a baseball field that it warrants ripping the entire field out when temperature is that much of a concern.  I'll give you football with 22 players constantly digging in play after play.  But, baseball?  Is the grass really in that much danger with three outfielders standing around most of the time with an occasional sliding catch?

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

What a fiasco this is lol. I mean, it doesn't seem like Vegas even wants the A's.  

[Dilbert]

9 hours ago, DustDevil61 said:

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

[GDAWG]

10 hours ago, DustDevil61 said:

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

 

If the MLBPA is as powerful as they say that they are, then they need to veto the move.  However, they have been very silent about the move.