RIP John Madden

[infrared41]

2 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Either way, the PBP guy should always favor the underdog or more likeable team, and the color guy should always favor the team nobody likes.  I'd love to hear Tony Romo trying to explain how the Lions are cheating on every single play against the Packers, and the Packers only got called for holding because if they didn't, the Lions player was certainly going to take a cheap shot at Aaron Rodgers' knee and end his career and make it so Rodgers couldn't deliver meals for the poor after the game, because the Lions hate poor people.  Then the PBP guy chimes in "will you be serious!"

 

 This and the gorilla on the field for extra points is why I'm fine with you being the next NFL Commissioner.

[BBTV]

18 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

 This and the gorilla on the field for extra points is why I'm fine with you being the next NFL Commissioner.

 

I want to be clear - the gorilla can be deployed for one play per game, regardless of situation.  Doesn't need to be an extra point.  I'd also start the NFL Breeding Genetics department, where we'd be trying to breed a super beast.  Like maybe a condor with a grizzly, or an eagle with the gorilla, or some other unstoppable combination.  These creatures would be made available to teams via a special supplemental animal draft, with the caveat that they're mostly untested, so there's no way of knowing if your bird-ape's heart will still be beating by week 7, or if the cheetah-boar you picked will suddenly go through a growth spurt and get too big to put on the plane, so you may want to play it safe and just stick with an unmodified ape or something.

[Brass]

Um.

 

 

Wut.

[BBTV]

Not sure what's more notable - that John Madden played high school football with Nick Bockwinkle, or that the Blue Meanie got a Blue Check!

 

 

[infrared41]

58 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

I want to be clear - the gorilla can be deployed for one play per game, regardless of situation.  Doesn't need to be an extra point.  I'd also start the NFL Breeding Genetics department, where we'd be trying to breed a super beast.  Like maybe a condor with a grizzly, or an eagle with the gorilla, or some other unstoppable combination.  These creatures would be made available to teams via a special supplemental animal draft, with the caveat that they're mostly untested, so there's no way of knowing if your bird-ape's heart will still be beating by week 7, or if the cheetah-boar you picked will suddenly go through a growth spurt and get too big to put on the plane, so you may want to play it safe and just stick with an unmodified ape or something.

 

If I win the Powerball, I am financing this league.

[infrared41]

19 minutes ago, Brass said:

Um.

 

 

Wut.

 

Sure, if by insane you mean awesome.

[slapshot]

I'll repeat what I tweeted...aside from the Sabols (Ed & Steve), no one did more to expand the popularity of the NFL outside of its hardcore audience than John Madden. Between his knowledgable-but-everyman personality in the broadcast booth,  his name on the most successful line of sports video games, and his willingness to poke fun at himself in numerous branding campaigns and commercials, the popularity and reach of the NFL would not be where it is without him.

 

I don't think there's another name for another sport who has done as much as he has to spread their sports popularity as much as he has. Maybe Michael Jordan with the NBA, but the sport was already very popular even before he came into the league. Possibly Babe Ruth?

[GDAWG]

7 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

Most of you guys are probably too young to remember this, but FOX getting the NFL was seen by many as a disaster waiting to happen. I remember a lot of "FOX is barely a network" talk. People were worried that FOX NFL broadcasts would be too much like FOX programming. Think XFL version one meets Melrose Place. (You kinda had to be there, but it was a fair point) There was also the issue of FOX not having as many affiliates as CBS and most FOX affiliates being on UHF. That meant the majority of their affiliates were on UHF channels like 68 and 36 instead of the more desirable and easier to pick up over the air VHF channels like 3,5,8, etc. (It was still a thing back then) Getting Summerall and Madden gave FOX NFL broadcasts instant credibility.

 

EDIT: Madden and Summerall  gave the FOX broadcasts credibility, but the FOX score bug was another matter. Hard as it may be to believe today, people lost their -ing minds over that score bug. They hated it. Said it was distracting, took away from the broadcast, covered too much of the screen, and so on. Imagine taking it way today.

 

Here locally the Fox station was on a UHF channel (33).  Fox ended up buying KDFW (Channel 4) which was at the time a CBS station when they got the NFL package and CBS ended up on KTVT (Channel 11).  Channel 33 ended up as WB and then now it's CW.  

[DEAD!]

5 hours ago, Brass said:

Um.

 

 

Wut.

Yeah... cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[BBTV]

Apparently Bobby The Brain Heenan was a legit honorary member of the 1988 All Madden team:

 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

Here locally the Fox station was on a UHF channel (33).  Fox ended up buying KDFW (Channel 4) which was at the time a CBS station when they got the NFL package and CBS ended up on KTVT (Channel 11).  Channel 33 ended up as WB and then now it's CW.  

 

Same thing happened here. WOIO (19) was the FOX affiliate and WJKW (8) was the CBS affiliate. I don't remember how it played out, but they switched network affiliations when FOX got the NFL rights. In Toledo, the FOX affiliate is still on UHF - WUPW (36).

[GDAWG]

 

[tBBP]

13 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

Here locally the Fox station was on a UHF channel (33).  Fox ended up buying KDFW (Channel 4) which was at the time a CBS station when they got the NFL package and CBS ended up on KTVT (Channel 11).  Channel 33 ended up as WB and then now it's CW.  

 

11 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

Same thing happened here. WOIO (19) was the FOX affiliate and WJKW (8) was the CBS affiliate. I don't remember how it played out, but they switched network affiliations when FOX got the NFL rights. In Toledo, the FOX affiliate is still on UHF - WUPW (36).

 

Okay, so this helps explain it. Of course I didn't get it at the time, but back when I was still a very young Buc we got WALA-5, which carried CBS, and WALA-10, which carried NBC, out of Mobile AL (40 minutes west of Pensacola,  which only had and still to this day only has WEAR-3), and some other station somewhere else carried FOX on what was then channel 44 (so yes, I remember the glory days of UHF--and my momma using me (or one of my sisters) as the remote control, you know, to work the turndails on those old floor-model TVs (and all the requisite kid confusion of not being able to find the higher channel on the bottom dial because we forgot to turn the top one to "U" first).

 

Anyway, somewhere around the early '90s, a new NBC station set up shop in Mobile on channel 15. Not even a good few months into their tenure, they and WALA switched networks, with the new station carrying NBC and WALA carrying FOX; that was right before FOX started carrying NFL games (and I think that was also about the time they started carrying the NHL--yes, younger posters, there was indeed a time when hockey was carried on network TV, glow-puck and all. Look up FOX-Trax or whatever it was called from circa '93 or '94).

 

Now I see that wasn't just a local thing.

[infrared41]

50 minutes ago, tBBP said:

 

 

Okay, so this helps explain it. Of course I didn't get it at the time, but back when I was still a very young Buc we got WALA-5, which carried CBS, and WALA-10, which carried NBC, out of Mobile AL (40 minutes west of Pensacola,  which only had and still to this day only has WEAR-3), and some other station somewhere else carried FOX on what was then channel 44 (so yes, I remember the glory days of UHF--and my momma using me (or one of my sisters) as the remote control, you know, to work the turndails on those old floor-model TVs (and all the requisite kid confusion of not being able to find the higher channel on the bottom dial because we forgot to turn the top one to "U" first).

 

Anyway, somewhere around the early '90s, a new NBC station set up shop in Mobile on channel 15. Not even a good few months into their tenure, they and WALA switched networks, with the new station carrying NBC and WALA carrying FOX; that was right before FOX started carrying NFL games (and I think that was also about the time they started carrying the NHL--yes, younger posters, there was indeed a time when hockey was carried on network TV, glow-puck and all. Look up FOX-Trax or whatever it was called from circa '93 or '94).

 

Now I see that wasn't just a local thing.

 

According to Wikipedia, 70 stations in 30 markets switched network affiliations after FOX got the NFL package. I don't know if the NFL was the reason for every switch, but it was the reason for a lot of them.

[gosioux76]

I remember Madden's unwillingness to fly being one of his more notable character traits. His bus seemed to be a big part of his brand.

 

I grew up in central Minnesota, and I remember in January 1992 seeing a TV ad promoting the annual All Madden Team broadcast about a week or so prior to the Super Bowl in Minneapolis. We lived on a hill overlooking a highway, and just after watching that All Madden promo I looked out and saw a bus passing by that looked very much like the famous Madden Cruiser. I thought, "nah, too much of a coincidence."

 

Sure enough, a week later the All Madden Team broadcast showed him ice fishing at a resort a few miles from our house.

 

I was hoping to find a bunch of the old All Madden broadcasts on YouTube but have only managed to find a few. To me, that was always marked the beginning of the Super Bowl season. I looked forward to it every year. 

[Gary]

1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

According to Wikipedia, 70 stations in 30 markets switched network affiliations after FOX got the NFL package. I don't know if the NFL was the reason for every switch, but it was the reason for a lot of them.

Same thing in Phoenix, in 1994 New World Communications bought KSAZ(channel 10) and switched it to a FOX station. Which at the time was a CBS station. At this time KNXV(15) lost FOX only to grab ABC from KTVK(channel 3). KPHO acquired the rights to CBS. As a kid was one of the most confusing times as this was a huge headache.
 

I think this was due to the NFL package. But come to find out that it was because channel 10s previous owner had some bankruptcy issues and was dumping stations. New World picked up Channel 10 and 3 other stations and swapped them into FOX stations a few days later. 

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

According to Wikipedia, 70 stations in 30 markets switched network affiliations after FOX got the NFL package. I don't know if the NFL was the reason for every switch, but it was the reason for a lot of them.

 

Definitely the main catalyst.

 

(probably the same pages you read)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_Fox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–1996_United_States_broadcast_television_realignment

 

"Fox sought to raise its station profile as the start of its NFL contract came closer by approaching other broadcasters about switching their VHF stations (channels 2 to 13) to the network from one of the other established networks. On May 23, 1994, News Corporation struck an alliance with New World Communications, a television and film production company that by now was a key station group with several VHF CBS affiliates in NFC markets in its portfolio, and wary of a CBS without football.[16][17][18] Through the deal, in which also Fox purchased a 20% interest in the company, nearly all of New World's stations (including several that the company was in the process of acquiring from Citicasters and Argyle Communications at the time the deal was struck) switched en masse to Fox beginning that September and continuing through September 1996 as existing affiliation contracts with their previous network partners came to an end (network subsidiary Fox Television Stations bought New World Communications outright in July 1996[19]).

 

In the summer of 1994, SF Broadcasting (a recently formed joint venture between Fox and Savoy Pictures) purchased four stations from Burnham Broadcasting, which also became Fox affiliates between September 1995 and January 1996. In the NFC markets affected by the deals, Fox gained VHF affiliates in eight primary markets (Atlanta, Dallas, Detroit, Green Bay, New Orleans, Phoenix, St. Louis and Tampa) and three satellite markets (Austin, Greensboro and Milwaukee), adding to the four that the network had before the deal. The new affiliates in St. Louis and Greensboro switched shortly before the Rams relocated from Los Angeles and the Carolina Panthers began play with the 1995 preseason. Besides giving the network leverage in attracting new affiliates, the rights gave Fox many new viewers and a platform for advertising its other shows.

 

Fox's acquisition of the National Football Conference contract severely affected CBS, beyond losing a marquee sporting event and some of its key talent and production staff. Not only was it largely relegated to former Fox affiliates and lesser known independent stations in the markets affected by Fox's affiliation agreement with New World, but CBS' older-skewing programming slate caused it to struggle further in the ratings, pushing it to third place, ahead of fourth-place Fox. CBS had hoped to replace the NFL with National Hockey League rights, but Fox then promptly outbid CBS for those as well; in addition, Fox took over the rights to Major League Baseball in 1996, after the cancellation of The Baseball Network, which was a joint venture between NBC and ABC at the time and had replaced CBS two years prior. CBS began rebuilding itself after the network took the AFC television contract from NBC in 1998."

 

While the Phila Fox station remained on UHF, a major swap in the VHS band occurred:

 

"Westinghouse Broadcasting (popularly known as Group W), concerned over its top-rated Baltimore station WJZ-TV (channel 13) losing its ABC affiliation to WMAR-TV, reached a deal to affiliate WJZ-TV and its two NBC affiliates (WBZ-TV (channel 4) in Boston and KYW-TV (channel 3) in Philadelphia) with CBS on July 14, 1994, as part of a deal that renewed the network's affiliation agreements with KDKA-TV (channel 2) in Pittsburgh and KPIX (channel 5) in San Francisco.[63][64][65] KYW-TV's switch to CBS prompted the network to sell its longtime Philadelphia O&O WCAU-TV (channel 10) to NBC (incidentally, New World briefly considered purchasing WCAU with the intent to convert it into a Fox affiliate; Paramount Stations Group would sell that network's existing affiliate WTXF-TV (channel 29) to Fox Television Stations, while in turn, acquiring independent station WGBS (channel 57, now CW owned-and-operated station WPSG) – which Fox attempted to purchase in August 1993, before terminating that deal to acquire WTXF – from Combined Broadcasting).

 

After CBS discovered that an outright sale of WCAU would have resulted it having to pay a high tax rate from the proceeds accrued, CBS, Group W and NBC entered into a complex trade deal involving four stations which took effect on September 10, 1995. NBC traded KCNC-TV (channel 4) in Denver and KUTV (channel 2) in Salt Lake City, to CBS; meanwhile, CBS-owned WCIX (channel 6, now WFOR-TV on channel 4) in Miami swapped transmitter facilities and channel frequencies with NBC-owned WTVJ (channel 4, now on channel 6) as compensation for the trades.^[66]"

[BBTV]

On 12/29/2021 at 2:28 PM, BBTV said:

Not sure what's more notable - that John Madden played high school football with Nick Bockwinkle, or that the Blue Meanie got a Blue Check!

 

 

 

Holy balls - I just happened to catch the end of Band of Brothers, and one of the people they interviewed at the end was Edward "Babe" Heffron.  I did a quick google search and saw he was from South Philadelphia, so I did another search and it turns out he was Blue Meanie's grandfather!

 

 

[DustDevil61]

11 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Definitely the main catalyst.

 

(probably the same pages you read)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_on_Fox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–1996_United_States_broadcast_television_realignment

 

"Fox sought to raise its station profile as the start of its NFL contract came closer by approaching other broadcasters about switching their VHF stations (channels 2 to 13) to the network from one of the other established networks. On May 23, 1994, News Corporation struck an alliance with New World Communications, a television and film production company that by now was a key station group with several VHF CBS affiliates in NFC markets in its portfolio, and wary of a CBS without football.[16][17][18] Through the deal, in which also Fox purchased a 20% interest in the company, nearly all of New World's stations (including several that the company was in the process of acquiring from Citicasters and Argyle Communications at the time the deal was struck) switched en masse to Fox beginning that September and continuing through September 1996 as existing affiliation contracts with their previous network partners came to an end (network subsidiary Fox Television Stations bought New World Communications outright in July 1996[19]).

 

In the summer of 1994, SF Broadcasting (a recently formed joint venture between Fox and Savoy Pictures) purchased four stations from Burnham Broadcasting, which also became Fox affiliates between September 1995 and January 1996. In the NFC markets affected by the deals, Fox gained VHF affiliates in eight primary markets (Atlanta, Dallas, Detroit, Green Bay, New Orleans, Phoenix, St. Louis and Tampa) and three satellite markets (Austin, Greensboro and Milwaukee), adding to the four that the network had before the deal. The new affiliates in St. Louis and Greensboro switched shortly before the Rams relocated from Los Angeles and the Carolina Panthers began play with the 1995 preseason. Besides giving the network leverage in attracting new affiliates, the rights gave Fox many new viewers and a platform for advertising its other shows.

 

Fox's acquisition of the National Football Conference contract severely affected CBS, beyond losing a marquee sporting event and some of its key talent and production staff. Not only was it largely relegated to former Fox affiliates and lesser known independent stations in the markets affected by Fox's affiliation agreement with New World, but CBS' older-skewing programming slate caused it to struggle further in the ratings, pushing it to third place, ahead of fourth-place Fox. CBS had hoped to replace the NFL with National Hockey League rights, but Fox then promptly outbid CBS for those as well; in addition, Fox took over the rights to Major League Baseball in 1996, after the cancellation of The Baseball Network, which was a joint venture between NBC and ABC at the time and had replaced CBS two years prior. CBS began rebuilding itself after the network took the AFC television contract from NBC in 1998."

 

While the Phila Fox station remained on UHF, a major swap in the VHS band occurred:

 

"Westinghouse Broadcasting (popularly known as Group W), concerned over its top-rated Baltimore station WJZ-TV (channel 13) losing its ABC affiliation to WMAR-TV, reached a deal to affiliate WJZ-TV and its two NBC affiliates (WBZ-TV (channel 4) in Boston and KYW-TV (channel 3) in Philadelphia) with CBS on July 14, 1994, as part of a deal that renewed the network's affiliation agreements with KDKA-TV (channel 2) in Pittsburgh and KPIX (channel 5) in San Francisco.[63][64][65] KYW-TV's switch to CBS prompted the network to sell its longtime Philadelphia O&O WCAU-TV (channel 10) to NBC (incidentally, New World briefly considered purchasing WCAU with the intent to convert it into a Fox affiliate; Paramount Stations Group would sell that network's existing affiliate WTXF-TV (channel 29) to Fox Television Stations, while in turn, acquiring independent station WGBS (channel 57, now CW owned-and-operated station WPSG) – which Fox attempted to purchase in August 1993, before terminating that deal to acquire WTXF – from Combined Broadcasting).

 

After CBS discovered that an outright sale of WCAU would have resulted it having to pay a high tax rate from the proceeds accrued, CBS, Group W and NBC entered into a complex trade deal involving four stations which took effect on September 10, 1995. NBC traded KCNC-TV (channel 4) in Denver and KUTV (channel 2) in Salt Lake City, to CBS; meanwhile, CBS-owned WCIX (channel 6, now WFOR-TV on channel 4) in Miami swapped transmitter facilities and channel frequencies with NBC-owned WTVJ (channel 4, now on channel 6) as compensation for the trades.^[66]"

I don’t know that the NFL deal affected this trade; regarding the Salt Lake City stations, I vaguely recall NBC being on Channel 2 and CBS being on Channel 5 before then. Strange to think about it was any other way since.

[MJWalker45]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, infrared41 said:

 

Same thing happened here. WOIO (19) was the FOX affiliate and WJKW (8) was the CBS affiliate. I don't remember how it played out, but they switched network affiliations when FOX got the NFL rights. 

I remember that switch too. It was strange how it happened, but I wonder if they are bastard cousins. Here in San Antonio, Fox, CBS and NBC are all in the same building. That wasn't the case with Cleveland, as far as I remember. Then there was WUAB who were the PBS lite station that seemed to survive because they had Cavs and Indians games on the network and Ohio State basketball.