The rise of US Women's Volleyball?

[4_tattoos]

I was checking my channel guide and was surprised to see that the NCAA division 1 women's volleyball championship is airing live on ABC. As a volleyball fan this caught me way off guard since the championship usually airs on ESPN2. I would have never expected a women's volleyball match outside of the gold medal match in the Olympics to air live on a major over the air broadcast network.

 

In addition to that, there's going to be 2 new professional women's volleyball leagues starting in 2024. The Pro Volleyball Federation (PVF) and League One Volleyball ( going by abbreviation LOVB). Both these leagues have some pretty serious backing (LOVB is partnered with the USA Volleyball). Athletes Unlimited also has a volleyball league, but that league has an unusual model in that the teams change week to week selected by the top ranking players (best comparison would be to a fantasy team that changes every week). PVF and LOVB will both have a traditional city based team model.

 

As a volleyball fan I'm all for getting more eyes on the sport as well as creating opportunities for American players to continue playing stateside after college, but couldn't help but notice the timing of all this coming off the US women's volleyball team finally winning gold at the recent Olympics. Does anybody think we are about to see a big push for girls/women's volleyball in the US?  I've talked with some friends of mine that are involved in both youth and high school sports. According to them girls volleyball has had an increase in participation over the last decade. At some high schools, more girls have tried out for volleyball than basketball or soccer.

 

I hope for the best out of all this. Although I fear they could go in the wrong direction with marketing. In addition to that at some point PVF and LOVB may end up merging, or we'd see one of the leagues go under. I don't see a scenario where both leagues coexist long term. Athletes Unlimited Volleyball could stick around since it has a very different model from what the other leagues are trying to do.

 

Any thoughts/opinions?

 

 

[Germanshepherd]

Nebraska fan here, volleyball is the best (although not today WOOF at that performance). 
 

Hate that there’s two competing leagues tho. I guess people are banking on just the general sport of volleyball over associations to specific teams and I don’t think that’s the right call. We can do both. 

[4_tattoos]

First things first, congrats to the Texas Longhorns on winning the D1 national title!

 

22 minutes ago, Germanshepherd said:

Hate that there’s two competing leagues tho.

 

I have 2 theories on this.

1. Two groups happened to have the same idea and proceeded to move forward with their plans unaware of the group.
2. There may have initially been one group planning a single league. But for some reason their was a division on a matter, and some people broke off to form the other league. If I had to guess, a division could have come in regards to when the league would play. PVF is set to start playing game in late January through May. LOVB is set to start in November 2024, but I'm not sure how long their season will run. With a November start, there could be some overlap between the two leagues in 2025.

[4_tattoos]

52 minutes ago, Germanshepherd said:

I guess people are banking on just the general sport of volleyball over associations to specific teams and I don’t think that’s the right call.

I believe this is the train of thought behind Athletes Unlimited. All of it's sports (basket, softball, lacrosse, etc) do the weekly draft with teams constantly changing. I can't get too heavily invested in AUV unless I personally knew a player in the league. Up until now AU has been the only televised pro volleyball available so I've tuned in because there has been no other option.

 

Ideally AUV could coexist with which ever league ends up standing between PVF and LOVB. Sort of a de facto second tier/minor league if you will. I'm sure some former AUV players will jump ship to both PVF and LOVB. Changing teams week to week has to be unsettling for the players on some level. At least the other two league could give it's players a level of stability AU can't.

[GDAWG]

One of these two leagues will likely get a Broadcast deal with Scripps as Scripps has WNBA and will get NWSL.  

[Germanshepherd]

1 hour ago, 4_tattoos said:

First things first, congrats to the Texas Longhorns on winning the D1 national title!

 

 

I have 2 theories on this.

1. Two groups happened to have the same idea and proceeded to move forward with their plans unaware of the group.
2. There may have initially been one group planning a single league. But for some reason their was a division on a matter, and some people broke off to form the other league. If I had to guess, a division could have come in regards to when the league would play. PVF is set to start playing game in late January through May. LOVB is set to start in November 2024, but I'm not sure how long their season will run. With a November start, there could be some overlap between the two leagues in 2025.

LOVB seems to be making more rounds within the club ranks of volleyball, which is huge with the youth. That USA Volleyball partnership could be massive. 
 

Although, I do think PVL has more legs at least right now. Most people around here know who the Omaha Supernovas are. I’m super interested to see what the game atmosphere is like. 

 

Athletes Unlimited just never had juice. The format always gave placeholder vibes until something better came along. 

[4_tattoos]

19 minutes ago, Germanshepherd said:

LOVB seems to be making more rounds within the club ranks of volleyball, which is huge with the youth. That USA Volleyball partnership could be massive. 
 

Although, I do think PVL has more legs at least right now. Most people around here know who the Omaha Supernovas are. I’m super interested to see what the game atmosphere is like. 

 

Athletes Unlimited just never had juice. The format always gave placeholder vibes until something better came along. 

Could be nothing but I've already seen people complaining about PVF's choice of game ball (Franklin). Could this be some USA Volleyball influence blocking PVF from using a higher rated equipment?

 

LOVB is actually an established nationwide youth volleyball organization that's decided to form a pro league from my understanding. Technically the league's full name may actually be League One Volleyball Pro. FWIW there will also be an Omaha based team in LOVB. I've quickly noticed LOVB has several members of the US women's national team committed to playing in their, league while my brief research has only shown college draftees being shown as the faces of PVF (maybe some notable college alums, not sure).

 

Agree with that take on AU. Like I said before, that league could be safe from collapse. There is an AU basketball league after all despite the WNBA and European women's basketball leagues existing. There is definitely a place for AU imo. The other two leagues are going to have to fight it out for that top tier spot.

[Fowler2]

Definitely intrigued especially with Pitt being a factor on the national scene. 

[GDAWG]

4 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

Could be nothing but I've already seen people complaining about PVF's choice of game ball (Franklin). Could this be some USA Volleyball influence blocking PVF from using a higher rated equipment?

 

LOVB is actually an established nationwide youth volleyball organization that's decided to form a pro league from my understanding. Technically the league's full name may actually be League One Volleyball Pro. FWIW there will also be an Omaha based team in LOVB. I've quickly noticed LOVB has several members of the US women's national team committed to playing in their, league while my brief research has only shown college draftees being shown as the faces of PVF (maybe some notable college alums, not sure).

 

Agree with that take on AU. Like I said before, that league could be safe from collapse. There is an AU basketball league after all despite the WNBA and European women's basketball leagues existing. There is definitely a place for AU imo. The other two leagues are going to have to fight it out for that top tier spot.

 

AU Basketball is more of a supplementary league to the WNBA because it helps players play domestically in the offseason.   Following the Britney Griner situation in 2022, more WNBA players might be reluctant to play overseas during the offseason and could pivot to AU Basketball.

[OnWis97]

It's probably the most popular college sport right now after football and basketball. It seems to have come on very quickly over the last couple of years. A regular-season Wisconsin vs. Minnesota match was shown on Fox a month or two ago in the late afternoon on a Saturday (following a college football game). That kind of exposure seems like a very new development.

A couple of years ago I bandgwagon-watched Wisconsin win the national championship and was blown away by the intensity of it all. I also caught the end of a regular season loss at Nebraska this season and the intensity was still impressive (i.e., doesn't only apply to national championship).

That all said, I don't anticipate becoming a frequent viewer because it's not like I don't have enough sports to waste time with already.

[LMU]

For anything on the pro-level to truly work they're going to have to consolidate enough and have enough backing to be able to encourage the top American players to come back from overseas.  My cousin, who was an elite player in college, is right now making half a million a year playing in Italy plus endorsements so other than her wanting to come home after she gets married next year there's not going to be the financial incentive or the competition level to prepare for international competition.

 

Heck, looking at who's still playing from her college team, other than one of her teammates being an Athletes Unlimited captain the rest are all off in Europe.

[crashcarson15]

Something I think that gets lost a little bit in the growth of women's basketball at both the college and pro level is that the game itself at the younger levels is somewhat in decline — high school girls basketball participation is down nearly 10% over the last five years, and here in Indiana, many small schools don't have JV squads and some aren't fielding Varsity teams at all. The trend was already happening, but COVID really hurt girls basketball in a lot of high schools nationwide and it just hasn't recovered.

 

Volleyball doesn't have that problem — and it's why I find it hard to buy that there isn't some market out there for viable pro women's volleyball in the US. Almost 100,000 more high school girls played volleyball than basketball last school year, and the sport's growth wasn't thwarted by the pandemic like many high school sports — high school girls volleyball participation is up more than 5% over the last five years despite the pandemic and nearly 12% over the last decade. It's a fun sport, both to play and watch, and the overall growth is there in TV viewership at the college level as well, with both semifinals pulling 1+ million on ESPN2 on Thursday.

 

I'm a little biased because Indianapolis is an expansion market if the league makes it to year two, but I hope PVF can get off the ground successfully and start to build something. It feels like the best path for pro volleyball is to tap into the growth of the college game (similar to the Catilin Clark effect hopefully coming to a WNBA arena near me), and Asjia O'Neal jumping right from Texas into the PVF in a handful of weeks feels like a plausible launching point for the league. But long-term, any league will need real financial backing, and PVF still hasn't announced its TV deal, which is slightly concerning.

[4_tattoos]

PVF is already beating LOVB in terms of branding. I present you the branding for each league's respective Omaha based teams.

 

PVF's Omaha Supernovas

 

LOVB Omaha Volleyball

 

And yes, that is both the name and logo for the LOVB team.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

3 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

LOVB Omaha Volleyball

 

Someone finally outdid the San Diego Sockers.

[Germanshepherd]

PVF inks a deal with CBS Sports. I was expecting ESPN+, so I’m pleasantly surprised with this. 

[4_tattoos]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:51 AM, LMU said:

For anything on the pro-level to truly work they're going to have to consolidate enough and have enough backing to be able to encourage the top American players to come back from overseas.

 

From PVF website

Quote

Pro Volleyball Federation is proud to be the first pro volleyball league in the United States to provide its players with a REAL living wage. In fact, our first-year base salaries are similar to those of current first-year WNBA players (a league that has been around for over 25 years). Our players will also be able to gain additional compensation based on achievement and postseason advancement. We are also extremely excited about being the first-ever pro league to share league revenues with our players from Day One. Our players are our product, and one of the most important missions of Pro Volleyball Federation is our commitment to treating our players the right way and with the respect, care, and admiration they deserve as major league professional athletes.

 

https://www.provolleyball.com/faqs/

 

Did a Google search and the top result (from  May 17, 2023) says the year 1 salary on WNBA rookie contract wage scale is $62,285 to $74,305. While that's not $500K in Europe, it's way better than the $10-35K salary Athletes Unlimited offers it's volleyball players. It may be even a little more than the average general salary in the US. 

[The_Admiral]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:16 AM, crashcarson15 said:

Something I think that gets lost a little bit in the growth of women's basketball at both the college and pro level is that the game itself at the younger levels is somewhat in decline — high school girls basketball participation is down nearly 10% over the last five years, and here in Indiana, many small schools don't have JV squads and some aren't fielding Varsity teams at all. The trend was already happening, but COVID really hurt girls basketball in a lot of high schools nationwide and it just hasn't recovered.

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate on this? Why basketball, and why the girls' game? You said volleyball is chugging along fine post-pandemic, but what hurt girls' basketball? especially in Indiana, of all places?

 

A pro volleyball league is interesting because it offers the first real chance to run unopposed, as it were, and not have to define themselves in opposition to a men's league, something even women's soccer didn't enjoy during USWNT dominance. They don't have to market it as the poorer but more affordable and accessible alternative to a men's game, nor do they have to adopt the ham-handed moral valence that doomed women's hockey to extremely online metadiscourse. It can just be. I wish them well.

[GDAWG]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:21 PM, Germanshepherd said:

PVF inks a deal with CBS Sports. I was expecting ESPN+, so I’m pleasantly surprised with this. 

 

CBS Sports also does WNBA and NWSL, so it wasn't really surprising for those who pay attention to this stuff like I do.  

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate on this? Why basketball, and why the girls' game? You said volleyball is chugging along fine post-pandemic, but what hurt girls' basketball? especially in Indiana, of all places?

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/participation-in-high-school-sports-registers-first-decline-in-30-years#:~:text=However%2C the decrease in girls,during that two-year period.

The NFHS says the biggest drop is in Texas with 25,000 less players. Other factors mentioned are one sport specialization, difficulty of play, and not being "girlie enough" as stated in the Wall Street Journal. 

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-sports-participation-drops-raising-concern-about-physical-learning-loss/2022/09

Lost class time during the pandemic is also an issue, as well as differences in wealth, which allowed higher income students access to gyms and other facilities that gave them a big advantage over poorer students. 

[The_Admiral]

Just now, MJWalker45 said:

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/participation-in-high-school-sports-registers-first-decline-in-30-years#:~:text=However%2C the decrease in girls,during that two-year period.

The NFHS says the biggest drop is in Texas with 25,000 less players. Other factors mentioned are one sport specialization, difficulty of play, and not being "girlie enough" as stated in the Wall Street Journal. 

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-sports-participation-drops-raising-concern-about-physical-learning-loss/2022/09

Lost class time during the pandemic is also an issue, as well as differences in wealth, which allowed higher income students access to gyms and other facilities that gave them a big advantage over poorer students. 

That's interesting, thanks.

 

I don't remember high school basketball being coded one way or the other. It was not masculine to play on the basketball team; it was just something you did if you were kinda good at it. I will say that I went to a fairly small high school where everyone had to wear so many hats that it was hard to really code anything one way or another (e.g., doing theatre didn't make my peers call me a (I am intolerant towards the LGBTQ community), at least not more than usual for the early 2000s), but I don't remember a lack of girliness being an issue. 

 

Income inequality hitting basketball hard, though, I think that's significant and something we're already seeing at the NBA level, where the league has undergone a stark process of dehomiefication.