Marlins Name Change

[tdk1984]

An explanation for the Marlins attendance woes: There are frequent storms that pop-up with little or no warning during the afternoon (when the Marlins' games typically occur), causing lengthy rain-delays. People don't like sitting through lengthy rain-delays, especially when they're as common as they are in South Florida.

[Brian in Boston]

The problem for the Florida Marlins is that they play in a football stadium, without a retractable roof, located too far away from downtown Miami. That's been their set of problems since Day 1.

* The experience of watching a baseball game in the less-than cozy confines of a stadium built for football is piss-poor. If this weren't the case, why is it that 25 of Major League Baseball's 30 franchises opt to play in facilities that are dedicated - first and foremost - to being homes to baseball teams? Why is it that four of the five franchises playing in multi-use facilities have either finalized plans to construct a baseball-only facility (Washington) or are actively seeking such a facility (Minnesota, Oakland and Florida)?

* No city currently playing host to a Major League Baseball franchise receives more rain during the season than Miami does. In fact, the only other Major League Baseball city that comes close is St. Petersburg... and it receives 13 inches less than Miami... and it's team plays in a domed facility. Further, South Florida receives a preponderance of summer rain in the late afternoon and evening hours. In other words, precisely when people would be trying to decide, "Should I trek up to the Marlins' ballgame tonight or will it be rained out and/or delayed?"

Granting Miami a Major League Baseball franchise without first insuring that a retractable-roof facility would be built to house said team was a major mistake.

* Travelling to Dolphin Stadium once a week for eight weeks of the National Football League's sixteen-week season is one thing. Travelling to Dolphin Stadium 81 times a Major League Baseball season - including visits on mid-week nights while battling South Florida's notorious rush-hour traffic - is quite another.

Bottom line? Attending Florida Marlins games has never been an altogether enjoyable experience for fans given the reasons outlined above. I believe that this team's fortunes at the gate would have been radically different if Major League Baseball had required that ownership have a plan in place from the get-go for the construction of a baseball-only, retractable-roofed facility closer to downtown.

Unfortunately for MLB and the marketplace, the drawn-out saga of trying to get the Marlins such a facility after the franchise had already been granted may well have "poisoned" the market.

[Gothamite]

I've heard the excuses. I just don't think they're very compelling reasons to ignore a World Championship franchise.

People are afraid of rain delays? Please. And the Marlins aren't the only ones who face terrible traffic to and from the ballpark - somehow 40,000+ fans of the Dodgers and Angels manage to get themselves to games, and it isn't by public transport.

I'll admit that playing baseball games in football stadiums isn't ideal. But if that's keeping the fans away in droves, especially when the team is competing for a championship, they aren't really fans. What's next - insisting that every seat have a cupholder?

[jerkstore]

I believe all the seats there do have cupholders

Bear in mind, you can't bring an umbrella into the stadium, i thought that was kinda of odd when i went.

[Gothamite]

I believe all the seats there do have cupholders

Oh, good.

No more excuses for meager attendance, then.

[BigShoop]

Miami: Worst sports city in America.

[rams80]

Miami: Worst sports city in America.

No, its the second worst...

Atlanta's the worst.

[BigShoop]

Miami: Worst sports city in America.

No, its the second worst...

Atlanta's the worst.

1 and 1a?

[The_Admiral]

Attendance at Braves games has been up.

[mjmatias]

Tampax Bay- worst sports logo city in North America.

Home of Bucco Bruce, (they play their games at "pirates of the carribbean") the multicolored logo Satan Rays (last in attendance every year), and one hit wonders the Lightning.

Good Luck with renaming your MLB franchise --- Ladies & Gents the Applicators, uh Tampons I mean Tarpons.

Hell I hope that 60 million from Uncle Jeb comes through.

[griffin128]

I did some research and it turns out that over the Marlins 13 year existence they actually have an average higher attendance than both KC and Pittsburgh

Fla - averaged 1,698,000

Pitt - 1,615,000

KC - 1,519,000

So why is no one calling Pittsburgh and Kansas City bad baseball towns. Pittsburgh has even had a new stadium and they still can't outdraw the Marlins.

The Royals have almost no sporting competition and they still draw less than rainy Miami.

I think what people are missing is that they wanna believe that every team should be drawing 3 million people. It's never gonna happen in alot of places. 2 miliion tickets is alot of tickets.

[Brian in Boston]

People are afraid of rain delays?  Please.

No. Actually, they find the very real possibility that a rain delay will interrupt a game a majority of the time to be annoying. They find the very real possibility that such a rain delay will lengthen the game to the point that they'll be kept at the ballpark to a later hour on a mid-week work night to be unacceptable. They find the very real possibility that a rain delay might stretch into a cancellation to be a significant deterrent to springing for season ticket or partial season ticket packages, thus impacting the Marlins bottom line. The preponderance of rain in Miami during the Major League Baseball season is a fact, plain and simple. No other Major League Baseball team faces the impact of rain on their schedule as often as the Marlins do. Therefore, prospective fans in South Florida face the impact of rain on their enjoyment of a game to an extent that no other Major League Baseball fan has to.

And the Marlins aren't the only ones who face terrible traffic to and from the ballpark - somehow 40,000+ fans of the Dodgers and Angels manage to get themselves to games, and it isn't by public transport.

I've driven to Florida Marlins games numerous times while visiting relatives in South Florida. I attend both Dodgers games and Angels games on a regular basis. Equating the experience of driving to a Dodgers or Angels game to that of driving to a Marlins game is like comparing apples and oranges. The travails of travelling South Florida roadways to a Marlins game far outweighs commuting to either a Dodgers or Angels game. Dodgers Stadium is, surprisingly, one of the easiest ballparks to get in and out of... and bear in mind that I travel to it from Santa Monica. While I find travelling to Anaheim to be a bit more aggravating than travelling to Chavez Ravine, I don't think that it is anywhere near as bad as travelling to Dolphin Stadium.

Further, travelling to a Marlins game is complicated by the fact that you're constantly weighing in your mind whether said game will be impacted by the aforementioned weather concerns. In other words, the travel concerns don't exist in a vacuum. They're exacerbated by concerns over weather. By comparison, it is highly unlikely that the commute to a Dodgers or Angels game is made while simultaneously worrying, "Oh, man... is this game going to be delayed or rained out?" Why? Well, the fact that Los Angeles and Anaheim each historically receive less than an inch of rain during the entire Major League Baseball season probably has something to do with it.

I'll admit that playing baseball games in football stadiums isn't ideal. But if that's keeping the fans away in droves, especially when the team is competing for a championship, they aren't really fans.

In your opinion. However, you ignore the fact that the Marlins playing in a football stadium isn't the only reason that potential fans stay "away in droves". As pointed out, it is the cumulative effect of the regular threat of rain in South Florida during the Marlins' season, the miserable commute to the Marlins' ballpark AND the fact that said ballpark is, first and foremost, a football stadium that has resulted in the team's attendance woes.

Bottom line? No other Major League Baseball team faces the simultaneous negative circumstances that the Marlins have dealt with since their entry into Major League Baseball. None. Those simultaneous circumstances - weather concerns, traffic concerns and stadium concerns - are a very real deterrent to rabid fan enthusiasm for the team. Major League Baseball should have recognized that from the get-go and done something to address said concerns. Namely, insist that a baseball-only ballpark featuring a retractable roof be built in the vicinity of downtown Miami.

[RyanB06]

Attendance at Braves games has been up.

When the Bravos sell out a first-round playoff game, then I'll share that sentiment.

[rams80]

I did some research and it turns out that over the Marlins 13 year existence they actually have an average higher attendance than both KC and Pittsburgh

Fla - averaged 1,698,000

Pitt - 1,615,000

KC - 1,519,000

So why is no one calling Pittsburgh and Kansas City bad baseball towns. Pittsburgh has even had a new stadium and they still can't outdraw the Marlins.

The Royals have almost no sporting competition and they still draw less than rainy Miami.

I think what people are missing is that they wanna believe that every team should be drawing 3 million people. It's never gonna happen in alot of places. 2 miliion tickets is alot of tickets.

You will also note that KC and Pittsburgh's on field performance during this time frame ranged from "sucked" to "godawful" to "glorified AAA team". If the teams were ever any good I'm pretty sure attendance would be better.

The Marlins won two World Series and barely outdraw two operations that have not won anything recently-never a good sign.

[Gothamite]

The Marlins won two World Series and barely outdraw two operations that have not won anything recently-never a good sign.

Well put.

All the weak excuses can't change that one basic fact.

[jtthasportfreak]

For those of you in the Los Angeles area who remember listening to the Jim Healy Show, may I offer you this.... "...What is the name of the river it goes through, the San Antonio river goes RIGHT throught the heart of downtown Los Angeles !"

[BBM]

The problem for the Florida Marlins is that they play in a football stadium, without a retractable roof, located too far away from downtown Miami. That's been their set of problems since Day 1.

* The experience of watching a baseball game in the less-than cozy confines of a stadium built for football is piss-poor. If this weren't the case, why is it that 25 of Major League Baseball's 30 franchises opt to play in facilities that are dedicated - first and foremost - to being homes to baseball teams? Why is it that four of the five franchises playing in multi-use facilities have either finalized plans to construct a baseball-only facility (Washington) or are actively seeking such a facility (Minnesota, Oakland and Florida)?

* No city currently playing host to a Major League Baseball franchise receives more rain during the season than Miami does. In fact, the only other Major League Baseball city that comes close is St. Petersburg... and it receives 13 inches less than Miami... and it's team plays in a domed facility. Further, South Florida receives a preponderance of summer rain in the late afternoon and evening hours. In other words, precisely when people would be trying to decide, "Should I trek up to the Marlins' ballgame tonight or will it be rained out and/or delayed?"

Granting Miami a Major League Baseball franchise without first insuring that a retractable-roof facility would be built to house said team was a major mistake.

* Travelling to Dolphin Stadium once a week for eight weeks of the National Football League's sixteen-week season is one thing. Travelling to Dolphin Stadium 81 times a Major League Baseball season - including visits on mid-week nights while battling South Florida's notorious rush-hour traffic - is quite another.

Bottom line? Attending Florida Marlins games has never been an altogether enjoyable experience for fans given the reasons outlined above. I believe that this team's fortunes at the gate would have been radically different if Major League Baseball had required that ownership have a plan in place from the get-go for the construction of a baseball-only, retractable-roofed facility closer to downtown.

Unfortunately for MLB and the marketplace, the drawn-out saga of trying to get the Marlins such a facility after the franchise had already been granted may well have "poisoned" the market.

I will give you most of that, BUT...

There is no place harder to get to than Yankee Stadium. The place was built 80 years ago in the heart of the Bronx where traffic on a Saturday afternoon will feel like rush hour, regardless of time of year or day. There are probably only about 20,000 parking spaces for 56,000 fans (though many take subways). It's in a terrible neighborhood and up until ten years ago, was thought to be uninhabitable for professional baseball much longer (serious talk of moving to Jersey crept in).

But the team started winning, the owner started paying, and the fans came. They sat for the hours in traffic, put up with the less than stellar facilities, and payed OUTRAGEOUS ticket prices. They drew 4 MILLION fans last year.

Now, tell me why the Marlins can't at least draw ONE million? A team that two years ago beat the very same Yankees in the World Series? There's more to it than the weather and stadium.

[griffin128]

Now, tell me why the Marlins can't at least draw ONE million? A team that two years ago beat the very same Yankees in the World Series? There's more to it than the weather and stadium.

There's only one season that they drew less than a million.

[The_Admiral]

Attendance at Braves games has been up.

When the Bravos sell out a first-round playoff game, then I'll share that sentiment.

It's not a sentiment. It's a fact. Turner Field attendance has been higher this April than previous Aprils. Go the Braves site; there's an article about it. What's it gonna take for you to "share in this sentiment"?

[Brian in Boston]

I will give you most of that, BUT... 

There is no place harder to get to than Yankee Stadium. The place was built 80 years ago in the heart of the Bronx where traffic on a Saturday afternoon will feel like rush hour, regardless of time of year or day. There are probably only about 20,000 parking spaces for 56,000 fans (though many take subways). It's in a terrible neighborhood and up until ten years ago, was thought to be uninhabitable for professional baseball much longer (serious talk of moving to Jersey crept in).

But the team started winning, the owner started paying, and the fans came. They sat for the hours in traffic, put up with the less than stellar facilities, and payed OUTRAGEOUS ticket prices. They drew 4 MILLION fans last year.

Now, tell me why the Marlins can't at least draw ONE million? A team that two years ago beat the very same Yankees in the World Series? There's more to it than the weather and stadium.

First, while you state that traffic to Yankee Stadium on a Saturday afternoon feels like rush-hour all season long and that the stadium has only 20,000 parking spaces for for 56,000 fans, you also concede that many fans take the subway. The latter convenience isn't an option to Dolphin Stadium.

Further, your allusion to the fact that the facility was "built 80 years ago" and that fans put up with "less than stellar facilities" doesn't seem to take into consideration the extensive renovation that the facility underwent in 1974, 1975 and early 1976. It also ignores the fact that Yankee Stadium, unlike Dolphin Stadium, is first and foremost a facility designed with hosting baseball games in mind.

Finally, New York is yet another Major League Baseball market that doesn't have to contend with anywhere near the amount of rain during the course of the baseball season that South Florida does. Therefore, fans of the Yankees (and Mets) don't have to deal with the prospect of rain delays or possible cancellations anywhere near as often as fans of the Marlins do.

It's a simple equation, gang:

* Playing in a facility that can only be reached after enduring an atrocious commute directly impacts fan enthusiasm for attending a Major League Baseball game. Granted, fans in numerous MLB markets have to contend with difficulty in travelling to and from the ballpark. Taken alone, such difficulty might not adequately explain the problems with attendance at Florida Marlins games.

* Playing in a multi-purpose facility designed to host football as well as baseball directly impacts fan enthusiasm for attending a Major League Baseball game. Presently, in addition to the Florida Marlins, MLB teams in Minnesota, Oakland, Toronto and Washington are the only other franchises to have to deal with this phenomenon. Additionally, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays play in a drab, utilitarian domed facility, albeit one designed with baseball in mind. Washington has broken ground on a new baseball-only facility. Minnesota and Oakland are pursuing new ballparks. Toronto is committed to their facility for the forseeable future. Tampa bay is locked into a long-term lease at their ballpark. In other words, once this variable is factored in, the number of MLB clubs whose fans conceivably face the same negative impact on game enjoyment as fans of the Marlins do is significantly narrowed.

* Playing in a market where inclement weather regularly threatens to impact the ability to play an entire Major League Baseball game without interruption directly impacts fan enthusiasm for attending a Major League Baseball game. NO Major League Baseball market faces anywhere near the level of potential weather-related impact on games throughout the season as does South Florida. Even the Tampa Bay area experiences 13 fewer inches of rain than South Florida does during the course of the MLB season... and the Devil Rays play in a domed facility, to boot. As a result, Florida Marlins fans face a level of weather-related inconvenience unlike any other in MLB. Combined with the aforementioned problems, this creates an atmosphere in which the enthusiasm of fans - both existing and potential - is severely reduced. Thus, attendance is impacted to a degree unknown in any other market in MLB.

Bottom line? You simply can't dismiss any one component of this equation when analyzing the Marlins' attendance woes. They must be taken in total. Said total adds up to a situation that no other Major League Baseball franchise contends with.