Giants-Stros

[The_Admiral]

Happy now, guys?

I am. Poor Bonds, he got hit with a knuckleball.

He's still at 713, right?

Yep... count me as among the happy. Too bad it wasn't a head shot.

so that means if I were to throw at your head, then it would be perfectly ok.

Well, is he hanging over the plate?

[HatCityEnforcer]

Springer had intent to be sure...it was obvious when he airmailed the first pitch over Bonds's head...then again, with the size of that frickin melon he's got, how in the blue hell can ya miss?

Actually, the first pitch was behind Barry's ass, not over his head.

Ah, my bad...but my statement could be partially true...seeing Barry's head is permanently wedged in there

[Jigga]

No one is asking anyone to feel any sympathy for anyone, how'd you get that twisted in your head?

I just think it's complete and total bull to intentionally throw at someone 5 ing times! Just because you don't like Barry Bonds doesn't make it right. When Delmon Young threw a bat at the ump, everyone demanded he be suspended for life and sentenced to 20 years of community service. Well Russ Springer threw a 85-95 mph baseball at a man 5 times.

Where are the calls for his complete banishment?

[slapshot]

Let's just wait and see what Watson hands down for a punishment. Springer deserves it, no question it seemed pretty obvious.

Pitching inside and hitting a player to send a message are part of the game. They've been there for years. It's not like Springer threw at Bonds' head, which is totally uncalled for. He got Bonds in the back, a little higher than most people would be comfortable with.

Comparing this to throwing a bat at an umpire is comparing apples to oranges. Players hitting each other are part of the game. Players hitting umpires/referees are not.

[pcgd]

No one is asking anyone to feel any sympathy for anyone, how'd you get that twisted in your head?

I just think it's complete and total bull to intentionally throw at someone 5 ing times! Just because you don't like Barry Bonds doesn't make it right. When Delmon Young threw a bat at the ump, everyone demanded he be suspended for life and sentenced to 20 years of community service. Well Russ Springer threw a 85-95 mph baseball at a man 5 times.

Where are the calls for his complete banishment?

I typically agree with you greg, but not in this case.

The Beanball is as much of baseball as a blindside sack in football or fighting in hockey. All can potentially end careers, All are intentional, and All are neccesary for the game.

The glee that is taken in hitting Barry Bonds in particular is not neccesary.

Ballplayers have always done an excellent job of policing themselves. Thats why you don't see the showboating that you see in football. Someone shows up a pitcher/hitter, they are going to feel it at somepoint.

For a interesting perspective on the subject, I recommend Tony LaRussa's book "Three Nights in August" Even I don't agree with everything he has to say in it, but it goes into the hits batsman, why he gets upset when its around the head, and why its neccesary. It also goes into the thought process of when to hit a batter and who to hit. The rest of the book is an excellent read for any baseball fan. If you are into SABRmetrics, you might not like it as much however.

You don't have to agree with me, but I played the game for 18 years or so and I personally think its a part of the game that will never go away, and shouldn't. The beanball comes into play even in High School ball. We always hit someone below the belt, and only after they were disrespectful. Never because they hit a homerun off of us. I was hit in a legion game because the guy before me hit a 3 run home run and was talkin' trash the whole way around the bases. I knew it was coming because my teammate showed up the pitcher, and the pitcher did it right and hit me in the a$$. Had it been around my head, we would have had problems.

[Mac the Knife]

Happy now, guys?

I am. Poor Bonds, he got hit with a knuckleball.

He's still at 713, right?

Yep... count me as among the happy. Too bad it wasn't a head shot.

so that means if I were to throw at your head, then it would be perfectly ok.

If I were as big an as Barry Bonds, I'd deserve it.

[Bleujayone]

When Delmon Young threw a bat at the ump, everyone demanded he be suspended for life and sentenced to 20 years of community service. Well Russ Springer threw a 85-95 mph baseball at a man 5 times.

Where are the calls for his complete banishment?

When he whips a ball at an ump's head in anger between plays I'm sure you'll get more support for such a punishment.

This is not the same thing.

Pitching inside and outside is a common and legal tactic in baseball, and many players make use of brushback pitches, or pitches aimed underneath the chin, to keep players away from the plate. Other times the pitcher just loses control of the pitch and the ball makes contact with the batter. Hitting a player is illegal which is why when a batter is hit he's awarded a base and if the umpire feels it was deliberate he has the option of ejecting the pitcher. (Which happened)

Barry Bonds is nowhere near close to breaking the record of being hit by the most pitches. He also has more armor on than a Knight of the Round Table. His season HBP average isn't particularly higher than anyoneone else. He averages 8 HBP per season but it should be noted that number has increased dramatically since his started taking steroids.

Fellow baseball jackass Ty Cobb was plunked a mere 94 times over his career. One would have expected either one of them would have been hit more often. (In Cobb's case, I would think pitchers would fear Cobb would hunt them down after the game)

Former Angels/Red Sox/A's DH Don Baylor had the career record with 267. He was hit so many times that he was known to wear a wetsuit under his uniform to cushion the hits. He wasn't exactly a HR machine, he was just a very hefty power hitter who always crowded the plate.The record was broken last year by Houston Astro Craig Biggio. As with Baylor I don't hear anyone cry a conspiricy about the frequency in which he's been beaned either.

I doubt there's a player out there that can claim he hasn't been hit by pitches, it's part of the game. Call back when pitchers are headhunting Bonds on a daily basis.

[Jigga]

I know pitchers throw at batters. My point is that Springer threw at Bonds 5 mother ing times!

I never said it wasn't baseball, that was someone else. I said it's bull .

I'm not saying what Springer did was as bad as the Delmon Young situation, I'm just saying that some of the same people getting all hell bent out of shape of what Young did are applauding Springer and wishing that Bonds got plunked in his size 8, pumped full of HGH dome of his.

Controlling the inside of the plate is great, throwing at someone to send a message, fine. But intentionally throwing at the dude 5 times in a row? That's ed up, plain and simple.

But because it's Barry, it's all fine and good, right?

[epper]

This isn't what baseball is about folks. Show a little class.

Neither is pumping 'roids.

I applaud Springer. I'd do the same thing.

[Fyrwulf]

Neither is pumping 'roids.

I applaud Springer. I'd do the same thing.

And if you're in his shoes, you'd better hope you get ejected. Pitchers have to hit in the NL. Then again, since you're for those kinds of pitches, you probably wouldn't mind if the Giants' pitcher sent you a message pitch that said, "Don't bean my players." Right?

[Fred T. Jane]

This isn't what baseball is about folks. Show a little class.

Neither is pumping 'roids.

I applaud Springer. I'd do the same thing.

Two wrongs make a right, I suppose...

[jkrdevil]

All right I went back to watch the at bat through MLB.tv (Which is real great for these debate type things because you can go back and watch the game and get it in full context for yourself). Here is the pitch by pitch sequence.

Pitch 1- Inside, breaking ball behind Bonds' ass (not his head).

Pitch 2- Inside at Bonds knee

Pitch 3- Inside foul ball off the knob of the bat.

Pitch 4- Inside at the hands

Pitch 5- Hit him high in the back of the shoulder.

Here is my take on this. The book now is to pitch Bonds inside. Pitches 2-4 were your normal inside pitches. Springer tried to hit Bonds with the first pitch and missed him. Then he went to pitch him normal inside. If he he was trying to hit him with every pitch pitch 2 wouldn't have been at the knees. Pitch 3 appears to hit Bonds but it went foul off the bat. IMO this was an inside pitch that got too far in. Again, if you want ot hit someone you don't throw at the hands. This was more of Bonds crowding the plate. Pitch 4 was inside. Barry oulled back but didn't come that close to hitting him. Again at the hands and had more to do with Barry crowding the plate. The count is now 3-1. Pitch 5 hits him and it was intentional.

What I think is that Springer tried to hit him originally with the first pitch. He missed and got a warning. He then pitches to Bonds the way Bonds has been pitched to. Springer obviously doesn't have the best control and falls behind 3-1. At that point he figures he might as well finish off the job and hits Barry.

[CZzyzx41]

I think the point is, if Spring threw a purpose pitch at him and missed, then he had his shot and he missed. Let it go and continue to pitch to the guy. A single and a warning track fly out? Who cares. The game was out of hand and Bonds hasn't been hitting lately. Pitch to the guy.

I think our bobblehead in plastic armor does deserve a few brush back pitches to but it was a little Bush league for the fans to stand and cheer.

Still, San Franciscans would chew Barry's toejam and consider themselves blessed and honored for the priviledge so convincing them that he deserves anything less than fat hanging sliders on every pitch and a red carpet to jog the bases on is futile. They will never believe that he's anything but the Holy God himself.

[brinkeguthrie]

Springer was obviously trying to hit him. Good article here, also stating why Giants pitchers, especially Morris, didn't retaliate tonight (he's already on thin ice;)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5613376

But the next time the Astros come to town, someone needs to get hit.

[ninersdd]

The Giants swept the Astros by a combined score of 33-7.

They needed a series like this, big time!

[tp49]

I'd bet that if both Bob Gibson or Don Newcomb were pitching in this era both of them who were masters of the brushback would send the message to Barry not to crowd the plate, especially with all that armor on. Gibson has even said as much, and I'm sure that in his prime Gibson would try to crack that elbow guard off.

Newcomb was once asked if he'd throw at his own mother. His response was "Well mom is a pretty good hitter."

The lesson if you crowd the plate expect the brushback pitch.

[IceCap]

Happy now, guys?

I am. Poor Bonds, he got hit with a knuckleball.

He's still at 713, right?

Yep... count me as among the happy. Too bad it wasn't a head shot.

so that means if I were to throw at your head, then it would be perfectly ok.

Last I saw, Mac isn't cheating to break the records of two of baseball's most respected players. The circumstances are very different.

[T-man3]

Russ Springer is my new best freind.

[brinkeguthrie]

I hope Russ Springer has to come to the plate when he visits AT&T Park. What a pathetic display.

[brinkeguthrie]

all I know is, this punk Springer sits for four games., and Garner for one. See you in The City, Russ.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5622268