National High School Football Playoff System

[maxweb81]

I was thinking of how you could truly find the best high school football team in the country by forming a playoff system. My idea would be to take the state champion winners and seed them in a single elimination playoff. I honestly don't know how many teams their would be but I thought it would be cool if it happened. So what do you guys think about this and how do you think it should be setup?

[mjrbaseball]

I like the idea. There are so many logistical and political problems that the chances of it happening are almost zero. But forget that, I'll play along and bring up some things we'll have to work out if we were really planning to do it.

First, most states have multiple champions based on size classification. But it's not the same in every state. For example, Texas has six classes, I believe, while Pennsylvania has four. Also, the size divisions aren't the same because population density varies. What might be a very large school in Montana could rank as a small school in California.

So, would there be separate national tournaments for different size schools, and do we try to average out the classes somehow? And if so, how many?

Or ... each state could have its class champions play off for an overall state champion, then the winners go to the national tourney. (Indiana does that for basketball - that was the basis for the movie Hoosiers.)

Some states also keep their private/parochial schools separate from public schools, while others have them play each other at the end. Some states don't make any distinction at all.

Also, there are some private schools that don't belong to any of the state high school federations. They have their own conferences - often with schools from several states - and play amongst each other without regard for state tournaments. (I guess this would be their choice if they don't want to participate.)

Then there are some places where geographic divisions exist. In New York, upstate schools play for state championships, while New York City has its own champions. (I'm not sure where the Long Island schools fit in this.) Do we let NYC send a separate champion, since it is a separate athletic federation governing it? (It isn't as unreasonable as it sounds - after all, Washington D.C. will have its own champion coming.)

Answers to these will determine what kind of bracket(s) we need. If they are separated by size, some states might not be represented in the large-school tournament (Alaska, perhaps), so that bracket would have fewer teams. At least one bracket will have to have 51 entrants (50 states plus D.C.), or would it be 52 to include NYC, or more than 52 for whatever reason?

Next we can go on to actually configuring the tournament(s).

[budbowl77]

I dont agree with a High School National Champion. while it does seem like a plan, Its High School. Travel would take these students out of the classroom where they belong.

btw: Monroe-Woodbury Crusaders 20 Straight Wins Longest winning streak in the state! GO MONROE!

[maxweb81]

I read what you said and I agree how their are a lot of variables. What I'll do in the next day or two I'll figure out how many state champs are total then how many seperate private tourneys are in service( but I think that school not in the state systems shouldn't be eligible but we'll see). Overall you would have to see how you configured the bracket and scheduling but I will start figuring out numbers. C&C thank you!

[no97]

I read what you said and I agree how their are a lot of variables. What I'll do in the next day or two I'll figure out how many state champs are total then how many seperate private tourneys are in service( but I think that school not in the state systems shouldn't be eligible but we'll see). Overall you would have to see how you configured the bracket and scheduling but I will start figuring out numbers. C&C thank you!

To get you started, the two stares I'm familiar with have 6 (Minnesota; one 9-man and five 11-man) and 8 (Illinois; all 11 man). This proposal is a nightmare, and is impossible. Even if you planned to only have the largest class in each state play, you're still talking about adding at least 5 games to a teams schedule (to pair down from as few as 36 state championship teams to a National Championship Game). This after a school's already played as many as 14-16 games just to win their own state championship... That's just stupid.

Moose

[Seadragon76]

Where I live right now (Iowa), they have 5 11-man classes (4A, 3A, 2A, 1A, and A) and one eight-man class. What would be a 4A school here (Like West Des Moines Dowling or Sioux City East) could fall into another class level in another state.

It'd be a royal mess.

[NJTank]

So with this system High schools will have a National Playoff and not Div 1-A, the NCAA sucks

[mjrbaseball]

I dont agree with a High School National Champion. while it does seem like a plan, Its High School. Travel would take these students out of the classroom where they belong.

btw: Monroe-Woodbury Crusaders 20 Straight Wins Longest winning streak in the state! GO MONROE!

I don't agree it should be, either. We're just playing here, though, saying how it would be done IF.

[budbowl77]

ohh okay than...hey the USA Today Top 25..let them go at it then..

[Cyclopsis Joe]

Except that my alum (the 426-student) Gibson Southern High School isn't very rich, so if they were good, how could they go all the way to like, freaking California or something? Better yet, how could any team from Indiana compete with a team from New York or LA?

[slapshot]

You couldn't really have a unified National High School championship until all high schools played the same set of rules. Mass. and Texas schools use NCAA rules, most other states use Federation (USHSF, I think) rules...there are 50 or so differences between NCAA and Federation rules. This also does not begin to cover specific rules from state to state.

High school is not the NCAA, and there's no sense treating the two as if they were the same.

[Herk]

i think the only way this could be potentially feasable is if they took the top 16 teams from the USA Today poll and have them skip their state playoffs and play in the national playoffs instead. That way you are eliminating the problem of having to play almost 20 games in a year, which is unreasonable for high school kids.

[LMU]

Another thing that's being missed is that California doesn't have a state championship. We have champions in 10 different regions (Central, Central Coast, Los Angeles City, North Coast, Northern, Oakland, Sacramento/Joaquin, San Diego, San Francisco, and Southern). And, each of these has champions in 10 school size-based divisions, as well as the 8-man programs.

They do have a supposed "State Championship Bowl Game," but that's kind of worthless, as schools actually have the option to opt out, and there isn't really a playoff to choose the teams that play in it.

So, any kind of tournament is absolutely impossible.

[whitedawg22]

Forget the fact that a national high school playoff is entirely unfeasible. Is it even desirable?

As it is, there are several hundred state divisional/sectional championships, which means several hundred teams can claim to be champions at the end of the year. This is a great accomplishment for the kids, parents, and coaches involved, as it signifies that the team did as well as they possibly could for the season.

I played high school football from 1997-2000 in New Hampshire, for a school that had about 500 students. Each season, our goal was to win our league championship (although it never happened). Personally, if we had won the league championship or the state championship, I wouldn't have gained anything by traveling to a playoff game and being slaughtered by a school with 3000 students that sends most of its players to 1-A colleges.

Who, exactly, would a playoff benefit?

[dfwabel]

LMU and jpslapshot gave everyone the biggest two reasons. Rule differences, and the grand desparity in divisions/classes of each state. Plus, in some states, like Texas, private schools are not competing in the UIL (governing body for all HS competitions, even band and debate) for championships. Many of the "elite" programs are private, as mrbaseball alluded to: De la Salle and Oaks Christian(CA), Birmingham Brother Rice (MI), Don Bosco Prep (NJ), and the list goes on and on. Just look at the Super Prep top 25. Who would host? If a small town or a county school has little fundraising, how can they get there?

Let's keep, "winning state" mean something.

[FiddySicks]

Youd end up killing kids if you did that. The high school season is long enough as it is. I remember back when I played the nine games durning the season and the two or three games in the playoffs were enough. This could potentially add up to almost a full extra season of games. Itd go forever. A lot of these kids couldnt play other sports such as basketball or Skiing (as was the case in Tahoe) and those extra games add a ton of potential of injury.

[IronChefShark]

Another thing that's being missed is that California doesn't have a state championship. We have champions in 10 different regions (Central, Central Coast, Los Angeles City, North Coast, Northern, Oakland, Sacramento/Joaquin, San Diego, San Francisco, and Southern). And, each of these has champions in 10 school size-based divisions, as well as the 8-man programs.

They do have a supposed "State Championship Bowl Game," but that's kind of worthless, as schools actually have the option to opt out, and there isn't really a playoff to choose the teams that play in it.

there is no point to it because De La Salle would most likely keep winning it every year anyways

[FiddySicks]

Another thing that's being missed is that California doesn't have a state championship. We have champions in 10 different regions (Central, Central Coast, Los Angeles City, North Coast, Northern, Oakland, Sacramento/Joaquin, San Diego, San Francisco, and Southern). And, each of these has champions in 10 school size-based divisions, as well as the 8-man programs.

They do have a supposed "State Championship Bowl Game," but that's kind of worthless, as schools actually have the option to opt out, and there isn't really a playoff to choose the teams that play in it.

there is no point to it because De La Salle would most likely keep winning it every year anyways

Well, that is untill they play South Tahoe..............

[nwtrailtrekker]

I honestly don't know how many teams their would be

umm....i think there would be....50???

[IronChefShark]

Well, that is untill they play South Tahoe..............

well if thats the case they would be playing against a NEVADA school now, right?