Early unveiling of logos

[whitedawg22]

From the Diamondbacks' new logo thread:

Saying that MLB "announced" the new style guide is utterly moronic. Anyone with VALID access to that site should see in BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS the dates which each team is unveiling their look.

I understand some of you want to be the cool guy and be the first one to "uncover" a juicy new tidbit, but you are illegally sharing information that is not yours.

For the love of God, have some respect.

As someone who isn't a professional designer, I'm not sure what the industry opinion is on this point. On one hand, I can understand the concern with breaking the rules laid down by the team that owns the logo. They're sharing privileged information and that trust is being abused. If a team wants to keep information proprietary until a certain point in time, they should have the right and ability to do so.

On the other hand, it seems like the teams (who are the ones who own the logos, NOT the designer that created them... leave consideration for them out of this) are being fairly moronic with respect to quashing the buzz around leaked logos. It's axiomatic that when it comes to publicity, any news is good news. Modern marketing, a subject I'm more versed in, can gain a huge advantage by using unofficial channels to hype up an unveiling by releasing tidbits of information before they're official. Witness "Snakes on a Plane", probably the best example of this phenomenon. Also look at the difficulties currently being endured by the music industry- rather than embrace fast, costless distribution and unofficial hype via the internet, they have tried to shut it down. It's going to happen anyway, so they would gain more by capitalizing on it rather than ignoring/attacking it.

By leaking a logo, a team can gain additional publicity and create a sense of anticipation around a uniform change. Teams should love it when they're the talk of the town, so why would they try to save the effect for a lame press conference that nobody's going to watch? Seems self-defeating to me.

[slapshot]

I think most of the furor deals with leaking of proprietary information. It's not the fact that the news creates a buzz, it's the fact it was leaked period. If you are a licensed vendor, and you leak the information early, your license might be revoked.

As with any confidential information, if it's leaked into the wrong hands early, it changes the original intended plans. Maybe the Sabres or Diamondbacks wanted to sell merchandise immediately upon the unveiling of the new logos. There's certainly a rush created at that moment. But with the delay between the logos leaked out and merchandise created with the new logos, the rush feeling that breeds impulse buyers is lost. Sure, there will be people that buy the new merchandise. But since there was been time for the news to settle in, there isn't this urgency to be the first person on the block to sport the new stuff.

Also, if it's leaked early, it gives counterfeitters a head start into putting unlicensed merchandise on the shelves as well.

[zer0dotcom]

May take is, if you don't want it leaked, then make sure that the people who are rpivy tot he information are trustworthy.

THis site has been the centre of many early unveilings, may of them coming from internet leaks. The internet is not a secure place, and placing something you don't want found there is foolish.

Now, if it's taken from an office, thats another story altogether.

People who are smart and privy to this kind of info are usually smart and protect it with their lives. Much like the teams' and sport should do, protect the information

[hecticbro]

The only time a team shouldn't want them leaked is when they're bad logos. Good ones leaking out creates positive buzz and I'd guess it would make for higher sales upon the official unveiling and release of merchandise.

[grmuckrakers]

The only time a team shouldn't want them leaked is when they're bad logos. Good ones leaking out creates positive buzz and I'd guess it would make for higher sales upon the official unveiling and release of merchandise.

As someone in the news business, I can tell you for certain that many of the leaks are made by the people yelling the loudest. The often put the information out there as a trial balloon.

I suspect that's true with logos as well. If they really didn't want the information out there, trust me, you'd never see it.

[Blue Falcon]

The only time a team shouldn't want them leaked is when they're bad logos. Good ones leaking out creates positive buzz and I'd guess it would make for higher sales upon the official unveiling and release of merchandise.

As someone in the news business, I can tell you for certain that many of the leaks are made by the people yelling the loudest. The often put the information out there as a trial balloon.

I suspect that's true with logos as well. If they really didn't want the information out there, trust me, you'd never see it.

If sports teams truly want to keep the lid on their new logos/uniforms, then it is THEIR responsibility to ensure that the information is secure until they want it unveiled. I'm sick of hearing about how some team is going to sue a guy because he posted an image of a new logo on his website.

These teams need to hire people who understand security, especially on the internet, if they want to remedy this situation. I suggest they start hiring former NSA or CIA folks.

Christ, is this the reason that we never hear from our beloved PANTONE any more?

[Blackjack76]

"Christ, is this the reason that we never hear from our beloved PANTONE any more?"

Quite simply, yes.

The main argument here is that people either with or without legal access are technically breaking a law by leaking the information to the general public. If someone who works for a team does it, with the A-OK from his/her superiors, then that follows the "trial balloon" defense outlined above.

But when someone leaks it just so he/she can look like the coolest person in the room (and I am talking to approximately one person who is a regular on this board), the negative chain-reaction is simply remarkable.

Vendors with legal access to the marks (which by the way, were taken down shortly after this board and FanHome wet itself with the leak) now cannot produce some items in time for Opening Day next year because of these twits. And for any of you in college without knowledge of the term "long lead" or "production time," you need to understand that it sometimes takes 6-9 months to produce items (banners, backlit signs, mirrors, etc.) for sports teams. Money has been lost and cannot be retrieved now.

As for merchandise, I couldn't agree more with the aforementioned rationale of why it hurts initial sales. We're talking in upwards of millions of dollars are now vanished because fans don't have the anticipation and desire to have merchandise with the new logo on it.

When I lived in Tampa, the Buccaneers' unveiling of a very different logo package (one that people actually wanted to wear) resulted in stores having to replenish its stock every week to keep up with demand.

People will still buy caps, jerseys and t-shirts with the new logo on it, but the anticipation and demand will not be anywhere the same as it was with the Buccaneers.

And one last thing before I get off my soapbox and back into the shadows...the idea that because a new logo package is posted on the Internet and thus open for anyone to take is beyond utterly moronic. The MLB Style Guide site is password-protected, and if anyone reads the User Agreement, you will know that MLB Properties not only has the right, but the power, to enforce its rules and sue the living pants off of anyone who accesses and leaks privileged information illegally.

So the first person who leaked the info on this board, I GUARANTEE you will be receiving a call soon from a lawyer asking some very pointed questions. Have fun with that.

[creativelysain]

Vendors with legal access to the marks (which by the way, were taken down shortly after this board and FanHome wet itself with the leak) now cannot produce some items in time for Opening Day next year because of these twits. And for any of you in college without knowledge of the term "long lead" or "production time," you need to understand that it sometimes takes 6-9 months to produce items (banners, backlit signs, mirrors, etc.) for sports teams. Money has been lost and cannot be retrieved now.

I agree with everything poste by Blackjack, and most importantly, the above quote.

[huggermugger]

No one is pointing out the teams don't like changes to leak early so that they can milk the fans with old full priced merchandise that will eventually be slashed in a short time.

[Gothamite]

Vendors with legal access to the marks (which by the way, were taken down shortly after this board and FanHome wet itself with the leak) now cannot produce some items in time for Opening Day next year because of these twits. And for any of you in college without knowledge of the term "long lead" or "production time," you need to understand that it sometimes takes 6-9 months to produce items (banners, backlit signs, mirrors, etc.) for sports teams. Money has been lost and cannot be retrieved now.

I agree with everything poste by Blackjack, and most importantly, the above quote.

As do I.

To suggest that because the companies can't control the actions of all the employees of their contractors, and therefore leaking logos here is okay, is absurd.

Somebody, somewhere is violating a contract by leaking this information. Posting it here makes us all party to that violation.

That there is a financial penalty for the company only compounds the problem.

[IceCap]

Vendors with legal access to the marks (which by the way, were taken down shortly after this board and FanHome wet itself with the leak) now cannot produce some items in time for Opening Day next year because of these twits. And for any of you in college without knowledge of the term "long lead" or "production time," you need to understand that it sometimes takes 6-9 months to produce items (banners, backlit signs, mirrors, etc.) for sports teams. Money has been lost and cannot be retrieved now.

I agree with everything poste by Blackjack, and most importantly, the above quote.

As do I.

To suggest that because the companies can't control the actions of all the employees of their contractors, and therefore leaking logos here is okay, is absurd.

Somebody, somewhere is violating a contract by leaking this information. Posting it here makes us all party to that violation.

That there is a financial penalty for the company only compounds the problem.

Well what about this? If someone leaks the logo elsewhere and a member of this board stumbles onto it? Should he/she be allowed to post it here?

[Gothamite]

No one is pointing out the teams don't like changes to leak early so that they can milk the fans with old full priced merchandise that will eventually be slashed in a short time.

Most likely, that's because it isn't the best example.

These logo changes had mostly been announced by the time the logos were leaked. In some cases, the leak was confirmed by sales on the team's existing merchandise.

The issue isn't that we knew a team was changing its logo. We already did, sometimes because the team told us. The issue is that the team didn't have the ability to manage its unveiling and consequently its merchandise sales, because we're impatient and because somebody violated the non-disclosure clause in his contract.

Well what about this? If someone leaks the logo elsewhere and a member of this board stumbles onto it? Should he/she be allowed to post it here?

No.

We then become a party to the breach of contract. We benefit from what may even be an illegal act, which makes us culpable.

That's the argument that was used, and frankly I'm not buying it.

To use an extreme example, If somebody robs an armored car, and drops bags of money on the road while getting away, we can't pick it up and keep it without becoming criminals ourselves.

[CC97]

Well in my defense, I don't post leaked logos on the website anymore until they are unveiled. You will notice the new Diamondbacks logo is not on sportslogos.net

[griffelh]

No one is pointing out the teams don't like changes to leak early so that they can milk the fans with old full priced merchandise that will eventually be slashed in a short time.

Most likely, that's because it isn't the best example.

These logo changes had mostly been announced by the time the logos were leaked. In some cases, the leak was confirmed by sales on the team's existing merchandise.

The issue isn't that we knew a team was changing its logo. We already did, sometimes because the team told us. The issue is that the team didn't have the ability to manage its unveiling and consequently its merchandise sales, because we're impatient and because somebody violated the non-disclosure clause in his contract.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. A lot of the time they do not want the logos to leak just so that they can liquidate the merchandise going out of style before the public knows. While the people on this board might keep up with every little detail, your average grandmother looking to buy a christmas gift for the grandkids might see Diamonbacks jerseys at half price and think she is getting a deal; only to have disappointed grandkids when they get "old" merchandise.

I have NO pity for teams that hold up their releases. Once they know what they are going to do, they should announce it. Anything less is manipulation of the public. Why is their right to profit greater than my right to not get ripped off?!

[CubsFanBudMan]

I see everyone's point with the legal hurdles, but calling us all criminals by association is a bit much. I take it that all of you "on the soapbox" have never been "active" in a thread with a leak in it. That is, you consciously decide not to go in because "that's criminal." I doubt it.

The only people with problems on this board when something leaks are the person who leaked it (and that's probably only if he is the guy with access), anyone else here with access and possibly Chris. But Chris can't control what's posted (but he can choose to take it down if he feels his site is in danger. I don't think it would be -- only any rights he has to access the league content.) PANTONE has built relationships with the leagues and obviously has access to the stuff, so he felt he couldn't post as often as he used to here because the leagues accused him of being a source -- or adding to it. Understandable... he had something to lose, but again, it isn't his SSUR site at risk, it's his access. Paul Lukas doesn't post here and has said he gets all sorts of leaked stuff and chooses not to post it early. Fine.

But the choice is made by the people with access. Not me or anyone else on this board. I'll go into a thread that says "new Diamondbacks logo" because I'm curious. If you guys want to take the higher ground and not go into those threads, by all means do so. I don't think you're a criminal either way. I have no deal with the leagues. Someone disclosed it to me... and I have no agreement to keep it quiet. (That said, I don't normally pass the stuff around. Like I said, I'm curious. I'd look and leave it. Some people can't do that. They might pay for it by getting their rights taken away -- and that might hurt in the wallet if they produce merchandise.)

[Gothamite]

No one is pointing out the teams don't like changes to leak early so that they can milk the fans with old full priced merchandise that will eventually be slashed in a short time.

Most likely, that's because it isn't the best example.

These logo changes had mostly been announced by the time the logos were leaked. In some cases, the leak was confirmed by sales on the team's existing merchandise.

The issue isn't that we knew a team was changing its logo. We already did, sometimes because the team told us. The issue is that the team didn't have the ability to manage its unveiling and consequently its merchandise sales, because we're impatient and because somebody violated the non-disclosure clause in his contract.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. A lot of the time they do not want the logos to leak just so that they can liquidate the merchandise going out of style before the public knows. While the people on this board might keep up with every little detail, your average grandmother looking to buy a christmas gift for the grandkids might see Diamonbacks jerseys at half price and think she is getting a deal; only to have disappointed grandkids when they get "old" merchandise.

I have NO pity for teams that hold up their releases. Once they know what they are going to do, they should announce it. Anything less is manipulation of the public. Why is their right to profit greater than my right to not get ripped off?!

Their right to profit exists because they own the trademark. They have the legal right to profit from it (and for those owned by public companies, the legal obligation to profit from it).

You have no legal right "to not get ripped off". If you don't follow the news releases that a club will be unveiling a new logo, if you don't ask the salesperson why the Diamondbacks jerseys are on clearance, then you didn't get "ripped off."

[meetthemets]

I have NO pity for teams that hold up their releases. Once they know what they are going to do, they should announce it. Anything less is manipulation of the public. Why is their right to profit greater than my right to not get ripped off?!

Companies spend a lot of money to producre new marks as well as a lot of money on unveilings, marketing and promotions. They have a certain way they want their logo unveiled and it's their right to release it in whatever way they want. Manufacturers sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) when they receive the logos which basically says they will not release them until it is time to do so. I would think that everyone who has access, or "legal" access to MLB style guides are held to the NDA as well.

If a movie company makes a movie, it's not okay for a theater to just start showing it before the release date just because they have it or have access to it. The theater would probably get in some serious trouble if they did that. It's the same thing.

[powersurge]

Obviously by law its wrong. period.

But, the positive of something being leaked is the buzz that it can cause among the fans and general public. That being said, it still is wrong to steal something like a song, logo, video or whatever without consent. I just think that some companies are still pretty naive and don't realize how powerful the internet is. When bands realize their new songs are being leaked they rush the album release. So why don't some of these design firms? Maybe I'm naive myself to the nature of the biz but thats just my take on it.

[Gothamite]

I don't think it's usually very feasible to "rush" merchandise the way it is with a CD or a movie.

[powersurge]

I don't think it's usually very feasible to "rush" merchandise the way it is with a CD or a movie.

I was thinking maybe they could rush the logo unveiling or something.

I just like the fact that if something is leaked we get to at least see it first.