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Kobe Bryant Close to Being a Bull


CS85

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WSCR has reported that a very close trade is on the table in front of Kobe Bryant right now. The Kings, Lakers, and Bulls are all involved. The Bulls would get Kobe, the Lakers would get Ron Artest and Kirk Heinrich, and it's unknown about any more details.

There's a 48 hour window to figure out if this thing is going to go down or not. If Kirk Heinrich doesn't play in tonight's opener, that pretty much seals the deal. If he does play, this deal may fly bye-bye. I think Ben Gordon and tons of draft picks may also be on the move. Post any details here as they come.

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Wow. The Lakers sure do like giving up their superstars for role players, huh? If this deal doesn't involve Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Kirk Hinrich, then it's simply not worth it for the Lakers.

When it did involved those 3 players, Kobe reported said he would veto the trade with his no trade cause cause he think the Bulls wont be a contender giving up all those players and he want to be part of a contender.

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I had heard something about this. Apparently Thomas, Duhon, Gordon and Hinrich are all headed out of Chicago, although it wasn't known exactly where they'd end up. Gordon could end up in LA, as could Artest. I've also heard Joakim Noah's name in the mix as well.

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I don't think you'll see the Bulls give up Deng. I certainly don't see them giving up Deng AND Hinrich or Gordon. I'm very conflicted all around. I'd love to see Kobe in Chicago, but I like the Bulls' core. I'd be most willing to part with Gordon, whom I find to be streaky and might be hard to sign to an extension. Out of the young players most likely to go, I think Tyrus could make a HUGE leap this year, so that would suck to see him go, but I'd rather see him go than Joakim Noah, who I think could quickly become my favorite player.

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I'm not sure about this one. I'd love to see Kobe, but I'm not sure if he's worth it. I wouldn't mind if Hinrich left, but if another starter went too it's probably not worth it. I think if they sent Gordon and Thomas that could be fine too, but it probably won't be enough to get Kobe. I know Nocioni's name was getting tossed around but I'm not sure if it is still being talked about. I certainly wouldn't want to see Nocioni go, but that is mainly because he's my favorite player. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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Well...I guess whatever deal was close to happening just fell through the hole, as reported by Ric Bucher about a minute ago (as I type this).

That knuck is still gon' get traded, though...selfish whinin' behind. I hope he get traded to a team that's gon suck more than them porno broads, and he don't break .500 all season long. That'll bring his over-inflated egotistical behind back down to Earth. Knuck. :cursing:

(Yeah that was a lil' vicious...but I ain't never liked that cat. And I ain't even that big a fan of basketball, so that's saying something.)

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This is going to be even longer than I initially figured it would, for these obvious reasons:

1) Kobe's contract is THE difficult contract to work around in sports when it comes to this type of situation. The way that contract was made, it was basically made for the scenario that when that contract ran out, Kobe would have at least 5 rings by now, re-sign with the Lakers, and be a Laker for life. They didn't anticipate him wanting a trade, and now this is biting the Lakers in the ass, especially with this no-trade clause. Had there been a no-trade, Kobe'd be out of LA by now.

2) Equal value. The Lakers are dead set in getting equal value for Kobe. That's probably not gonna happen in a one-on-one team trade. They were thinking right when they added a 3rd team, because the only way this trade gets done is if multiple teams get involved.

3) Kobe wanting to go wherever he goes. Again, that pesky no-trade clause.

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Well Kobe has a no-trade clause, and he refuses to be dealt to a gutted team. The Lakers basically want everything the Bulls have for him, but Kobe won't allow the trade if the Bulls give up too much.

I'm guessing this trade will die.

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Well...I guess whatever deal was close to happening just fell through the hole, as reported by Ric Bucher about a minute ago (as I type this).

That knuck is still gon' get traded, though...selfish whinin' behind. I hope he get traded to a team that's gon suck more than them porno broads, and he don't break .500 all season long. That'll bring his over-inflated egotistical behind back down to Earth. Knuck. :cursing:

(Yeah that was a lil' vicious...but I ain't never liked that cat. And I ain't even that big a fan of basketball, so that's saying something.)

what's a knuck? a knucklehead?

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Well...I guess whatever deal was close to happening just fell through the hole, as reported by Ric Bucher about a minute ago (as I type this).

That knuck is still gon' get traded, though...selfish whinin' behind. I hope he get traded to a team that's gon suck more than them porno broads, and he don't break .500 all season long. That'll bring his over-inflated egotistical behind back down to Earth. Knuck. :cursing:

(Yeah that was a lil' vicious...but I ain't never liked that cat. And I ain't even that big a fan of basketball, so that's saying something.)

what's a knuck? a knucklehead?

Precisely. 'Round my way, we just shorten the word "knucklehead" down to "knuck". I guess I need to stop using so much slanguistics up in here... :D

But, back on topic--you know what? Screw it. I really could give two-thirds of a :censored: less where Hobe Bryant ends up.

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I'm really having a hard time believing that a Kobe deal is going to happen. The deal that fell through was easily the best scenario that's been rumored thus far. First off, L.A. isn't going to get a better deal than obtaining both Ben Wallace AND Ron Artest (regardless of the headache he is) from one team. Now, on the off-chance that L.A. finds a deal they like even better, for instance, Chicago offering some combo of Ty Thomas, Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Kobe will veto the trade because the Bulls' depth will be depleted and he will no longer view the Bulls as a championship contender. But of course, that's an unlikely scenario anyway because that likely hinges on Chicago parting with Deng, which as of now, isn't happening.

The point is, for Kobe Bryant to be traded to ANY team, someone is going to have to suck it up, swallow their pride and back down. L.A. just isn't going to get equal value for Bryant, so they need to come to terms with this and do one of two things, trade him for the best deal out there (with or without Deng) or refuse to trade him. The Bulls are in the clear on this one... if they don't get Kobe, they're team is still fine, although the longer this plays out, the more of a distraction it becomes. Finally, Kobe needs to learn he can't have his cake and eat it too. If you want to go to Chicago bad enough, let the executives make the best trade they can and just go to the Bulls regardless of who is left over. His list is already only two deep... Dallas won't trade for him, especially on the asking price of Josh Howard and Jason Terry (and they shouldn't trade for Kobe). Chicago is the only realistic possibility, thus, Kobe needs to take it or leave it... go to the Bulls regardless of its makeup or stay put in Los Angeles.

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For the sake of discussion...

There was a rumor this week that Wizards were trying to trade Gilbert Arenas and change for Kobe. It's more or less been shot down since then but I thought it was worth mentioning.

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I'm really having a hard time believing that a Kobe deal is going to happen. The deal that fell through was easily the best scenario that's been rumored thus far. First off, L.A. isn't going to get a better deal than obtaining both Ben Wallace AND Ron Artest (regardless of the headache he is) from one team. Now, on the off-chance that L.A. finds a deal they like even better, for instance, Chicago offering some combo of Ty Thomas, Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Kobe will veto the trade because the Bulls' depth will be depleted and he will no longer view the Bulls as a championship contender. But of course, that's an unlikely scenario anyway because that likely hinges on Chicago parting with Deng, which as of now, isn't happening.

The point is, for Kobe Bryant to be traded to ANY team, someone is going to have to suck it up, swallow their pride and back down. L.A. just isn't going to get equal value for Bryant, so they need to come to terms with this and do one of two things, trade him for the best deal out there (with or without Deng) or refuse to trade him. The Bulls are in the clear on this one... if they don't get Kobe, they're team is still fine, although the longer this plays out, the more of a distraction it becomes. Finally, Kobe needs to learn he can't have his cake and eat it too. If you want to go to Chicago bad enough, let the executives make the best trade they can and just go to the Bulls regardless of who is left over. His list is already only two deep... Dallas won't trade for him, especially on the asking price of Josh Howard and Jason Terry (and they shouldn't trade for Kobe). Chicago is the only realistic possibility, thus, Kobe needs to take it or leave it... go to the Bulls regardless of its makeup or stay put in Los Angeles.

From what I read, the trade would have been: (just to complete the pieces)

Bulls get: Kobe

Lakers get: Artest and Ben Wallace

Kings get: Ben Gordon and PJ Brown

I really like Ben Gordon, but to me, this seems like it would have been the best case for all teams. Not only do the lakers get 2 great players, they get a very marketable one in Wallace. The Kings get a great young scorer and the Bulls although losing a little inside power (Hoping that Noah pans out I'm assuming), gain one of the best players in the league.

As a Jordan era bandwagon Bulls fan (then again, there were no other teams in my area) I'd be ok with that trade although, like I said, I really like Ben Gordon. But, you're right, its not going to happen.

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You've got to wonder just how big of a cancer Kobe is going to become in that locker room, and the Lakers will eventually have to ask themselves how badly they want to keep putting Kobe on a high pedestal before you cut your losses.

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You've got to wonder just how big of a cancer Kobe is going to become in that locker room, and the Lakers will eventually have to ask themselves how badly they want to keep putting Kobe on a high pedestal before you cut your losses.

Word.

You know, I've got to say I'm extremely disappointed in the media (despite somewhat being part of said media, at least for a time and hopefully in the future) for not dumping on the Lakers' management like they do with New York's. Granted, the Knicks have the highest payroll in the league and haven't done squat with it, but for all the garbage Isiah has put out onto the court and for all the stuff he has or hasn't done off the court, the man greatly improved the roster talent wise (and age-wise), made solid draft picks (all of which have been coveted by teams at one point or another) and although he accumulated expensive contracts, he traded away aging and overrated players for younger, more athletic and more talented guys.

The Lakers, in my eyes, along with Philadelphia and Atlanta have to be the most mismanaged team in the league right now. The only reason they don't get dumped on is because Kobe Bryant is the single greatest player in the game and is capable of carrying a horrible team on his back to at least the 8th seed. Look at the Lakers track record over the past few years...

1. Trade Shaquille O'Neal, a then 3-time NBA champion in 4 appearances, former NBA MVP, 3-time Finals MVP and an Olympic Gold Medalist for not a single all star... Lamar Odom, Caron Butler (only an all star after joining Washington) and Brian Grant. If you're going to move Shaq, you'd better be damn sure you're getting at least a single all star, top-tier or second-tier. They let the single most dominant player in the last 20 years not named Michael Jordan or Hakeem Olajuwon go for absolutely nothing.

2. Allow 11-time NBA champion coach Phil Jackson (counting his two as a player) to leave L.A. after Shaq goes. Granted, he came back the following season, but almost burning the bridge with Jackson was a huge mistake that, fortunately for L.A., never fully happened.

3. Commit to being competitive and competing for NBA championships with Kobe as their centerpiece, but fail to bring in ANY quality talent to help carry the load. Something as simple as drafting a guy like Danny Granger instead of Andrew Bynum in 2005 would've done the trick... his potential was at least founded. Bynum's a giant kid with little-to-no real NBA talent and worst of all, is soft inside where a 7-footer needs to make his presence felt and known.

4. Pass on both Jermaine O'Neal and Jason Kidd in favor of keeping Andrew Bynum, who is obviously never going to live up to even half the hype that surrounded him. He's a second-string center at best, likely third-string, but for all the fuss the Lakers make about him, you'd assume he was the second-coming of the Diesel. First two missed opportunities to cut their losses, admit Bynum is a waste and dump him off on another team for a proven, hungry veteran. For all the crap Isiah takes, dumping Channing "Mr. Softee" Frye and Steve Francis for Zach Randolph was a comprable (all though Randolph is a step below a guy like J.O.), low risk-high reward move.

5. Their current inability to make a decision on Kobe's future as a Laker.

Granted, Atlanta, Philadelphia and New York have been horribly managed for the past few years. But if there's one thing they all share in common, on a positive note, is that they've never had nor traded TWO of the greatest players in the game for seemingly absolute nothing. Sure, Philly moved Iverson and certainly botched that a bit (could've gotten Carter, for instance) but they got some nice pieces to build with. Point is, L.A. has said they're committed to competing for a title and not rebuilding from the ground up, therefore obtaining all stars for guys like Kobe/Shaq is a crucial element toward continuing that. The 76ers are in full rebuilding mode, thus moving Iverson for younger, less proven pieces is acceptable.

If nothing else, Kobe needs to waive his no-trade clause and allow the Lakers to trade him wherever they can for the best deal they can get. He can't possibly go to a worse situation, other than maybe Atlanta or somewhere like that. He's good enough to join a roster like the Hawks and carry them to an 8th seed in the East, even without guys like Josh Smith and Al Horford who would be in L.A. if a deal like that were to happen. This whole thing is just a complete mess... no side is willing to budge.

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I was just thinking: I'm loosening up on my "don't trade Tyrus and Noah" stance. I'm starting to look at them as bonus players that we shouldn't ever have had in the first place (thanks, Isaiah!). How about this: Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon and draft picks? Lakers get a big-time defender (and earner) in Wallace to match up with the West's bigs (and Kobe's contract), they get a scorer to replace Kobe (though it's important to note that I'm not saying Gordon can replace Kobe's production) and they get a big man with a very high ceiling in Thomas. Plus, they get some draft compensation (probably going to be late in the round, but they can take a flyer on a Euro or two and wait a couple years for him/them to come over).

How far from equal value is that? 80 cents on the dollar?

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I was just thinking: I'm loosening up on my "don't trade Tyrus and Noah" stance. I'm starting to look at them as bonus players that we shouldn't ever have had in the first place (thanks, Isaiah!). How about this: Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon and draft picks? Lakers get a big-time defender (and earner) in Wallace to match up with the West's bigs (and Kobe's contract), they get a scorer to replace Kobe (though it's important to note that I'm not saying Gordon can replace Kobe's production) and they get a big man with a very high ceiling in Thomas. Plus, they get some draft compensation (probably going to be late in the round, but they can take a flyer on a Euro or two and wait a couple years for him/them to come over).

How far from equal value is that? 80 cents on the dollar?

The problem with that trade is that Kobe will veto it since it drains the Bulls' roster. By removing Wallace, Thomas and Gordon, the team looks something like this:

Starters: PJ Brown, Joe Smith, Luol Deng, Kobe Bryant, Kirk Hinrich

Bench: Joakim Noah, Chris Duhon, Andres Nocioni, Thabo Sefalosha, etc.

How much different is that roster from Chris Mihm, Lamar Odom, Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher with guys like Jordan Farmar, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown and Andrew Bynum off the bench? It's basically the equivalent of the current Lakers in the East, perhaps a bit better defensively. That team goes from competing for a conference championship to a 2nd round knockout.

If I had to play the role of Paxon, I'd be doing exactly what he's doing now, that is, refusing to lose the team's long-term future for possible success this season (because even if the Bulls get Kobe, depending on who they have to trade, would that team still be good enough to beat a San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix or Houston in the finals? I doubt it). If you've got to give up one of the young guys, I'd move Joakim Noah before Ty Thomas. Noah's a scrappy player, an energy boost and a solid rebounder, but he's never going to be more than a solid role player. He's too small to guard the bigger forwards and not quick enough to guard the smaller, faster forwards. He's got no post game and no jumper, so offensively it's like playing 5-on-4... granted the Bulls are like that with Ben Wallace, but his defensive presence makes it a fair trade off. The Bulls can do without Noah, I feel, more than they can do without Tyrus Thomas who just seems to have much more upside and basically serves the same role that Noah does, only better.

I just don't see a better situation than the proposed three-way with Sacramento. Everybody wins... LA gets Wallace (not in his prime, but good enough) and a 20-10 guy and lockdown defender in Artest (who isn't more of a headache than Kobe at this point), the Bulls get their man and Sacramento gets Ben Gordon and PJ Brown... meaning Chicago's roster doesn't get drained and Kobe would probably sign off on it.

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