Pac-10 Expansion

[Duncan1800]

Hawaii has been happy with the WAC for so many years that a possible change would be a near fatal blow to the WAC.

And the problem with that is...?

I'm sure the Mountain West would be ready and willing to let in Boise State, should the WAC decide to collapse upon itself.

[dfwabel]

If UNLV gets the Pac 10 nod over Nevada, there's something seriously wrong. Nevada athletics are far superior to UNLV athletics. Neither or worthy though, they'd both become the next Duke or Temple in football.

Perhaps, but let's be real about this - if/when the Pac 10 ever becomes the Pac 12, money will be the chief motivating factor. The money from bringing two more potential television markets into the fold to be sure, but moreso the money a Pac 12 championship football game at the L.A. Coliseum or Rose Bowl would generate every year.

That said, BYU and UNLV are your most likely candidates. Utah might be bigger in terms of athletics right now, but BYU would ultimately bring in more money as they have a more dedicated alumni pool (religious-based institutions often do). UNLV taps into the Las Vegas television market, which is growing rapidly. So if there were to be an expansion, from among the schools originally listed those are the two I'd think most likely.

Thank you for reading my initial post as I mentioned media markets. It did later spread, against the OP's original thoughts, and have academics in consideration, but I tried to provide budget information and a link which may be useful for you youth of North America. However, it is media markets which will impact the Pac-10 the most. Heck, I remember in 2000 when there was the thought that Texas would leave the Big XII as that would give the Pac 10 the Dallas and possibly San Antonio markets.

Their weak cable contract does not help them. While most of you are not living on the west coast like me, but when ABC/ESPN does their 3:30pm EST game, if there are more than two games broadcast you don't get the "reverse mirror" on ESPN2, however, the Pac-10 game is generally not in HD if USC is not playing.

As for the newbie "Duncan1800" answering everything in sight...slow down, cuz! Plus, Hawaii was not in a conference a conference until 1978, so they love the fact that a conference and its TV revenue helps subsidize their program more than ever before. Moving from the WAC to the Mountain West for Hawaii, would just make them have teams fly from Honolulu to DFW and SLC more over the lesser teams just transferring in route to Lafayette, LA.

[LMU]

The problem with Utah/BYU is that they'd be a bit off on their own island, adding to travel costs. Boise St/Idaho or UNLV/Nevada would at least be in states already bordering Pac-10 states.

Utah borders Arizona.

Yet, with both schools in northern Utah, they are on their own little island. At least Las Vegas isn't too far from LA or Phoenix, and Reno is a stright shot down I-80 from the Bay Area.

[rams80]

The problem with Utah/BYU is that they'd be a bit off on their own island, adding to travel costs. Boise St/Idaho or UNLV/Nevada would at least be in states already bordering Pac-10 states.

Utah borders Arizona.

Yet, with both schools in northern Utah, they are on their own little island. At least Las Vegas isn't too far from LA or Phoenix, and Reno is a stright shot down I-80 from the Bay Area.

Isn't the West a little more used to travel than the East?

[dfwabel]

The problem with Utah/BYU is that they'd be a bit off on their own island, adding to travel costs. Boise St/Idaho or UNLV/Nevada would at least be in states already bordering Pac-10 states.

Utah borders Arizona.

Yet, with both schools in northern Utah, they are on their own little island. At least Las Vegas isn't too far from LA or Phoenix, and Reno is a stright shot down I-80 from the Bay Area.

Isn't the West a little more used to travel than the East?

Outside of club teams and the occasional volleyball trip. How many varsity teams will travel by bus or 15-passenger van? If the travel is that far away (SLC to LAX, SFO, SEA, PHX...) all teams will fly. Sorry to use airport codes, but I know all of those and it is a better reference to me.

[jtthasportfreak]

I will go on the record to say that the year the Evergreen State is having is an abberation, certainly they'll remember it for as long as it takes to get to their car. The Pac-10 Conference is competitive year in, year out in football, thank goodness we don't play the Sisters of Flatulence or Duke for example. Bringing in Utah & Brigham Young seems ideal, "I've got you're built-in rivalry right here." Travel in the Mountain West is comporable to the Pac-10 while the WAC is spread out about 4,000 miles (Honolulu to Ruston West to East). So don't give me the wear & tear of travel in the Pac-10, it ain't bad.

[DarkJourney]

Hawaii has been happy with the WAC for so many years that a possible change would be a near fatal blow to the WAC. So, in my mind, Hawaii wouldn't work for a possible Pac-10 expansion plan. You also have to bring up the travel costs and with the economy crapping out, it wouldn't work out.

Throwing out the academic need, I'd say the best choices are Idaho and Boise State.

Why? Well, LMU pointed out the need for natural rivalries, and Idaho-Boise State is a natural, albeit one sided, rivalry.

Another reason is that the divisions are now easily split.

North:

-Boise State

-Idaho

-Oregon

-Oregon State

-Washington

-Washington State

South:

-Arizona

-Arizona State

-California

-UCLA

-USC

-Stanford

Pretty simple, no?

Idaho joining the Pac-10. Don't make me laugh

[AJM]

As I am bored, I did look up some information from the Department of Education's Office of Postsecondary Education (OPE). All schools basically have to disclose their scholarship numbers and budget information in regards to athletics. The Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act requires co-educational institutions of postsecondary education that participate in a Title IV, federal student financial assistance program, and have an intercollegiate athletic program, to prepare an annual report to the Department of Education on athletic participation, staffing, and revenues and expenses, by men's and women's teams.

I did not look at all Pac 10 schools, but I assumed that Washington State would have the smallest budget (in terms of expenses) overall. There are $36M for 2007. Other Pac 10 schools I looked up were Oregon State at $46M, UCLA at $66M, and Stanford at $76M.

BYU has a similar budget to Washington State, but Utah and UNLV is at $32M and Boise is around $26M.

Equity in Athletics Data Tools

Great work on this...one of the biggest hurdles for the Pac-10 (if they wanted to seek expansion), would be finding schools with quality athletic programs and that would match/align academically and add to the prestegious nature of the conference...and more than likely be located in Nevada (UNLV, Nevada), Utah (BYU, Utah), Idaho (Boise State, Idaho), or California (Fresno State).

Also, the Pac-10 is conveniently paired having 5 sets of two teams close to one another (Oregon & OSU, UW & WSU, Cal & Stanford, USC & UCLA, ASU, & UofA), which may hurt Boise State, although I'd love to see them in the Pac-10. So this set-up, if adhered to, would look at Nevada & UNLV, Fresno State & San Jose St. or SDSU, or BYU & Utah.

[smzimbabwe]

Stanford vetoed Texas' entry into the Pac-10, and Washington and USC both voted against it as well...

So which program out west is better than Texas?

The Pac-10 is dead set against expansion, they have the perfect setup right now...

[ninersdd]

Reno and Las Vegas are an 8 hour drive from each other unlike the other pac10 rival schools which are close(except for the Washingtons)

[The_Admiral]

You guys talking about the PRESTIGIOUS ACADEMIC STANDARDS OF THE MIGHTY PACIFIC TEN sound like such a bunch of goofs. They'll let some other people play developmental football with them if there's money in it for them.

[TheAK47]

All I say is, if you include BYU but not Utah you are bonkers. Utah has a great all-around athletic program. The mens basketball team is ranked 9th in all-time NCAA wins and 7th all-time in NCAA Tournament appearances. The football team is solid. Our gymnastics is often ranked top 5 in the country. Our volleyball team is pretty much a fixture in the top 25. Basically, we are superior to BYU (haha). But also moving BYU to a different conference without bringing Utah over would be like moving Texas out of the same conference as Oklahoma, its just not gonna happen.

[Luigi74]

You guys talking about the PRESTIGIOUS ACADEMIC STANDARDS OF THE MIGHTY PACIFIC TEN sound like such a bunch of goofs. They'll let some other people play developmental football with them if there's money in it for them.

The vote to add a team to the Pac-10 must be unanimous and Stanford will vote against any school with academic standards and stature not to their liking. Texas would have been in the Pac-10 but Stanford let it be known they were not going to vote for them, that gave politicians with connections to Baylor and Texas Tech the time to put the kibosh on A&M to the SEC and keep Texas from joining any conference that wouldn't take Baylor and Texas Tech.

[dfwabel]

All I say is, if you include BYU but not Utah you are bonkers. Utah has a great all-around athletic program. The mens basketball team is ranked 9th in all-time NCAA wins and 7th all-time in NCAA Tournament appearances. The football team is solid. Our gymnastics is often ranked top 5 in the country. Our volleyball team is pretty much a fixture in the top 25. Basically, we are superior to BYU (haha). But also moving BYU to a different conference without bringing Utah over would be like moving Texas out of the same conference as Oklahoma, its just not gonna happen.

Texas and Oklahoma have only been in the same conference for 10 years.

[Gary]

Reno and Las Vegas are an 8 hour drive from each other unlike the other pac10 rival schools which are close(except for the Washingtons)

As is Tucson and Tempe, It takes anywhere from 6-8 hours to reach Tucson

[TheAK47]

All I say is, if you include BYU but not Utah you are bonkers. Utah has a great all-around athletic program. The mens basketball team is ranked 9th in all-time NCAA wins and 7th all-time in NCAA Tournament appearances. The football team is solid. Our gymnastics is often ranked top 5 in the country. Our volleyball team is pretty much a fixture in the top 25. Basically, we are superior to BYU (haha). But also moving BYU to a different conference without bringing Utah over would be like moving Texas out of the same conference as Oklahoma, its just not gonna happen.

Texas and Oklahoma have only been in the same conference for 10 years.

Yeah, but do you think they would move one of them out of the conference without the other? I don't think so.

[dfwabel]

All I say is, if you include BYU but not Utah you are bonkers. Utah has a great all-around athletic program. The mens basketball team is ranked 9th in all-time NCAA wins and 7th all-time in NCAA Tournament appearances. The football team is solid. Our gymnastics is often ranked top 5 in the country. Our volleyball team is pretty much a fixture in the top 25. Basically, we are superior to BYU (haha). But also moving BYU to a different conference without bringing Utah over would be like moving Texas out of the same conference as Oklahoma, its just not gonna happen.

Texas and Oklahoma have only been in the same conference for 10 years.

Yeah, but do you think they would move one of them out of the conference without the other? I don't think so.

When it comes down to it, the Regents (and legislature) of Texas would do what they think is best for them. The October game in Dallas, regardless of its actual location, would still remain.

[rams80]

All I say is, if you include BYU but not Utah you are bonkers. Utah has a great all-around athletic program. The mens basketball team is ranked 9th in all-time NCAA wins and 7th all-time in NCAA Tournament appearances. The football team is solid. Our gymnastics is often ranked top 5 in the country. Our volleyball team is pretty much a fixture in the top 25. Basically, we are superior to BYU (haha). But also moving BYU to a different conference without bringing Utah over would be like moving Texas out of the same conference as Oklahoma, its just not gonna happen.

Texas and Oklahoma have only been in the same conference for 10 years.

Yeah, but do you think they would move one of them out of the conference without the other? I don't think so.

When it comes down to it, the Regents (and legislature) of Texas would do what they think is best for them. The October game in Dallas, regardless of its actual location, would still remain.

Precisely. They played that game for decades prior to the Big XII, and would continue to do so if one of the two did leave the Conference.

[TheAK47]

Whatever, your still not moving BYU without Utah or vice versa.

[ninersdd]

Reno and Las Vegas are an 8 hour drive from each other unlike the other pac10 rival schools which are close(except for the Washingtons)

As is Tucson and Tempe, It takes anywhere from 6-8 hours to reach Tucson

Huh? I've been through there a few times and its more like 2-3 from Phoenix to Tucson