Super Bowl XLIII

[STL FANATIC]

Penalties not called against the Cardinals = no big deal, "Hey, you can't catch everything, right?"

Penalties not called against the Steelers = undeniable proof the NFL and the refs did everything in their collective power to ensure a Steelers victory.

Most haven't suggested a conspiracy of that sort.

I put a lot of stock in the idea that the refs are just super incompetent, and some stock in the theory that the NFL was out of commercials and over their time spot and were ready to get things finished.

[Brass]

Just heard that Jesse Jackson was a guest of Mike Tomlin's at the Super Bowl. Makes me kinda happy that the New England Patriots weren't in it this year. The Pats love throwing to Wes Welker, and god know that Jackson would of put up a stink about how the Patriots are racist because they only throw to the white man.

[DEAD!]

Just heard that Jesse Jackson was a guest of Mike Tomlin's at the Super Bowl. Makes me kinda happy that the New England Patriots weren't in it this year. The Pats love throwing to Wes Welker, and god know that Jackson would of put up a stink about how the Patriots are racist because they only throw to the white man.

OMG. That Castle didn't throwz the ball to Mozz!

[Jigga]

Just heard that Jesse Jackson was a guest of Mike Tomlin's at the Super Bowl. Makes me kinda happy that the New England Patriots weren't in it this year. The Pats love throwing to Wes Welker, and god know that Jackson would of put up a stink about how the Patriots are racist because they only throw to the white man.

Um...okay.

[gingerbreadmann]

Just heard that Jesse Jackson was a guest of Mike Tomlin's at the Super Bowl. Makes me kinda happy that the New England Patriots weren't in it this year. The Pats love throwing to Wes Welker, and god know that Jackson would of put up a stink about how the Patriots are racist because they only throw to the white man.

What the hell?

[IceCap]

Penalties not called against the Cardinals = no big deal, "Hey, you can't catch everything, right?"

Penalties not called against the Steelers = undeniable proof the NFL and the refs did everything in their collective power to ensure a Steelers victory.

I think you're kind of reading statements that no one made.

I'm not saying the refs or the NFL "fixed" the game. I'm saying the refs blew it by not reviewing that last play.

Just heard that Jesse Jackson was a guest of Mike Tomlin's at the Super Bowl. Makes me kinda happy that the New England Patriots weren't in it this year. The Pats love throwing to Wes Welker, and god know that Jackson would of put up a stink about how the Patriots are racist because they only throw to the white man.

What the hell?

It was a joke. A very poorly thought out one, but a joke non-the-less.

[infrared41]

I will add, though, and I'm sure I'm just about alone here, but I'm beginning to grow sour on the whole idea of instant replay in the NFL.

I haven't been a fan since the "tuck rule" disaster. I don't even remember if that play was reviewable. If it was then they blew it. If it wasn't then it should have been. Screw replay. Put the games back in the hands of the people! Viva La Revolution.

[Luigi74]

Penalties not called against the Cardinals = no big deal, "Hey, you can't catch everything, right?"

Penalties not called against the Steelers = undeniable proof the NFL and the refs did everything in their collective power to ensure a Steelers victory.

Most haven't suggested a conspiracy of that sort.

I put a lot of stock in the idea that the refs are just super incompetent, and some stock in the theory that the NFL was out of commercials and over their time spot and were ready to get things finished.

Per SI's Peter King, the replay official in the booth had 90 seconds to look at the play and he also said that the replay officials can be downgraded if they send down plays for review that have no chance of being overturned. Wisenhunt should get a little bit of heat for not getting the head ref to come over to discuss the play with him which would have given the replay official a little bit more time.

The whole they were out of commercials is a joke since the NFL doesn't take commercial breaks after the 2 minute warning, and if anything the NFL and NBC would have wanted the game to go longer so there wouldn't be the big ratings drop off that happens after the final gun.

[BlueSky]

I will add, though, and I'm sure I'm just about alone here, but I'm beginning to grow sour on the whole idea of instant replay in the NFL.

I haven't been a fan since the "tuck rule" disaster. I don't even remember if that play was reviewable. If it was then they blew it. If it wasn't then it should have been. Screw replay. Put the games back in the hands of the people! Viva La Revolution.

That's a rule issue, not a replay issue. The tuck rule play was called correctly, i.e. under the rule as written, it wasn't a fumble. The rule is idiotic but the tuck rule play can't be used to indict instant replay.

BTW, the Super Bowl edition of "Official Review" is up on NFL.com. Mike Pereira obviously says they made all the right calls with the exception of Holmes' celebration, for which he offers the explanation that it occurred so long after the score that the officials had turned away.

[rams80]

Penalties not called against the Cardinals = no big deal, "Hey, you can't catch everything, right?"

Penalties not called against the Steelers = undeniable proof the NFL and the refs did everything in their collective power to ensure a Steelers victory.

Most haven't suggested a conspiracy of that sort.

I put a lot of stock in the idea that the refs are just super incompetent, and some stock in the theory that the NFL was out of commercials and over their time spot and were ready to get things finished.

Per SI's Peter King, the replay official in the booth had 90 seconds to look at the play and he also said that the replay officials can be downgraded if they send down plays for review that have no chance of being overturned. Wisenhunt should get a little bit of heat for not getting the head ref to come over to discuss the play with him which would have given the replay official a little bit more time.

The whole they were out of commercials is a joke since the NFL doesn't take commercial breaks after the 2 minute warning, and if anything the NFL and NBC would have wanted the game to go longer so there wouldn't be the big ratings drop off that happens after the final gun.

How big a threat is downgrading if McAulay's crew got to do the Super Bowl? He and his crew had to have been downgraded at some (multiple?) point this season. Of course, it is Peter King talking here, so he could just be speaking out of his arse again.

[McCall]

Penalties not called against the Cardinals = no big deal, "Hey, you can't catch everything, right?"

Penalties not called against the Steelers = undeniable proof the NFL and the refs did everything in their collective power to ensure a Steelers victory.

Most haven't suggested a conspiracy of that sort.

I put a lot of stock in the idea that the refs are just super incompetent, and some stock in the theory that the NFL was out of commercials and over their time spot and were ready to get things finished.

Per SI's Peter King, the replay official in the booth had 90 seconds to look at the play and he also said that the replay officials can be downgraded if they send down plays for review that have no chance of being overturned. Wisenhunt should get a little bit of heat for not getting the head ref to come over to discuss the play with him which would have given the replay official a little bit more time.

The whole they were out of commercials is a joke since the NFL doesn't take commercial breaks after the 2 minute warning, and if anything the NFL and NBC would have wanted the game to go longer so there wouldn't be the big ratings drop off that happens after the final gun.

How big a threat is downgrading if McAulay's crew got to do the Super Bowl? He and his crew had to have been downgraded at some (multiple?) point this season. Of course, it is Peter King talking here, so he could just be speaking out of his arse again.

3 things about the "Peter King" post:

#1: There was NO WAY there was 90 seconds to review that play before the final snap.

#E: They still had the oppurtunity to have EVEN MORE time (can't remember, 2 minutes?) to review it and make sure that the call that decided the Super Bowl was indeed correct.

#Yakima: I don't think the league is gonna downgrade a crew (who deserved to anyway because they suck) because they wanted to make sure the game ended with the correct call.

[infrared41]

I will add, though, and I'm sure I'm just about alone here, but I'm beginning to grow sour on the whole idea of instant replay in the NFL.

I haven't been a fan since the "tuck rule" disaster. I don't even remember if that play was reviewable. If it was then they blew it. If it wasn't then it should have been. Screw replay. Put the games back in the hands of the people! Viva La Revolution.

That's a rule issue, not a replay issue. The tuck rule play was called correctly, i.e. under the rule as written, it wasn't a fumble. The rule is idiotic but the tuck rule play can't be used to indict instant replay.

BTW, the Super Bowl edition of "Official Review" is up on NFL.com. Mike Pereira obviously says they made all the right calls with the exception of Holmes' celebration, for which he offers the explanation that it occurred so long after the score that the officials had turned away.

Fair enough. I'm just using that play as an example. And I said "I don't even remember if that play was reviewable. If it was then they blew it. If it wasn't then it should have been." I used a poor example but... It was a fumble. Replay proved it. Just because the NFL made up a rule on the spot doesn't change it. I guess what I am trying to say is the rules need to get in line with the replay. The San Diego - Denver game proved it earlier this season. Either use replay to it's fullest extent or get rid of it entirely.

[STL FANATIC]

Yeah. I could be wrong, but I thought the Tuck Rule was less something in writing, and more a way they chose to interrupt the rule, creating, not really a new rule, but a precedent of interpretation.

They were technically within their bounds to do so, as Brady's arm technically was coming wrong. But it flew totally in the face of the spirit rule as it was obvious he was not throwing the ball and that the ball was knocked out rather than released.

As far as Peter King's "90 seconds"... no sir.

Go watch a replay. 36 seconds elapse from the time Warner releases the ball to the time the Steelers take their snap.

90 seconds my foot.

[Luigi74]

How big a threat is downgrading if McAulay's crew got to do the Super Bowl? He and his crew had to have been downgraded at some (multiple?) point this season. Of course, it is Peter King talking here, so he could just be speaking out of his arse again.

The replay official had 90 seconds to look at a crystal clear uncompressed for transmission replay of the fumble, he confirmed it as a fumble and saw no need for McAulay to look at it. If he was downgraded enough over the season that would keep him out of the playoffs and future Super Bowls.

The NFL Replay system is a mess and has been since it was brought back, they really need something like the NHL were a call for a review can come from the ref, replay official or head of officials at the league office.

[rams80]

How big a threat is downgrading if McAulay's crew got to do the Super Bowl? He and his crew had to have been downgraded at some (multiple?) point this season. Of course, it is Peter King talking here, so he could just be speaking out of his arse again.

The replay official had 90 seconds to look at a crystal clear uncompressed for transmission replay of the fumble, he confirmed it as a fumble and saw no need for McAulay to look at it. If he was downgraded enough over the season that would keep him out of the playoffs and future Super Bowls.

So NFL replay officials can violate the laws of physics now? Awesome-they need to share their knowledge of quantum mechanics with the science industry.

How downgraded do you need to be to miss a Super Bowl? If McAulay's allowed to call it, clearly they tolerate a lot.

[McCall]

How big a threat is downgrading if McAulay's crew got to do the Super Bowl? He and his crew had to have been downgraded at some (multiple?) point this season. Of course, it is Peter King talking here, so he could just be speaking out of his arse again.

The replay official had 90 seconds to look at a crystal clear uncompressed for transmission replay of the fumble, he confirmed it as a fumble and saw no need for McAulay to look at it. If he was downgraded enough over the season that would keep him out of the playoffs and future Super Bowls.

So NFL replay officials can violate the laws of physics now? Awesome-they need to share their knowledge of quantum mechanics with the science industry.

How downgraded do you need to be to miss a Super Bowl? If McAulay's allowed to call it, clearly they tolerate a lot.

The NFL has let their infatuation with the Field Goal leak over into it's officiating and concept of time:

Actual 30 seconds of time from "fumble" to Steelers' snap (x3) = 90 seconds of overlapsed time according to the NFL.

[STL FANATIC]

I'll post this again.

Warner has not relinquished his grip on that football. It's not like a runner with the ball in his arms where any movement constitutes a loose ball.

Warner kept his grip on that ball until he let go for a forward pass.

It was a bad call on a borderline play and an inexcusable decision to not stop play and take more than 36 seconds (that's giving them the benefit of the doubt that they started looking as soon as the ball was released--even before play was dead--and that they looked up until the snap) to review it.

Argue with me about the call if you want. As I say, it's a close one even though it's pretty clear to that it was a forward pass.

But I don't know why some are making excuses for not making sure they got the call right in the biggest game of the year, when they were the only ones who had the power to initiate such a review.

[McCall]

I'll post this again.

Warner has not relinquished his grip on that football. It's not like a runner with the ball in his arms where any movement constitutes a loose ball.

Warner kept his grip on that ball until he let go for a forward pass.

It was a bad call on a borderline play and an inexcusable decision to not stop play and take more than 36 seconds (that's giving them the benefit of the doubt that they started looking as soon as the ball was released--even before play was dead--and that they looked up until the snap) to review it.

Argue with me about the call if you want. As I say, it's a close one even though it's pretty clear to that it was a forward pass.

But I don't know why some are making excuses for not making sure they got the call right in the biggest game of the year, when they were the only ones who had the power to initiate such a review.

They were going for or had money riding on the Steelers.

[BlueSky]

I'll post this again.

Warner has not relinquished his grip on that football. It's not like a runner with the ball in his arms where any movement constitutes a loose ball.

Apparently it is like a runner according to the NFL's VP of officiating, who says something like "you can see the ball turn in his hand..." as he explains in "Official Review" on NFL.com why it was a fumble. The QB must maintain complete control of the ball until it leaves his hand. He also says they should have sent the play down for the ref to look at even though it wouldn't have changed anything. If you've read my earlier posts you know I'm not defending the p***-poor officiating in this game, but the fumble/not a fumble ruling wasn't the problem IMO.

I also stand by my earlier post that if Kurt Warner, after how many years in the NFL (and football in general for that matter), doesn't know that a quarterback CANNOT hold the ball for SIX SECONDS, especially in that situation, ...well, that's just pretty sorry. He had one thing to do on that play - get rid of the ball - and he didn't do it. The fact that the game ended like that for Arizona is on him.

To the tuck rule. AFAIK it was in the book in writing (they don't 'make up rules') but had just never been an issue. And don't get me wrong, the Brady play looked like a fumble to me too, but I understand why under the rule they called it the way they did. All this brings us back again to whether something like what NASCAR types term "the call" exists, i.e. giving a little subtle (and sometimes not so subtle?) help to keep good stories alive.

[rams80]

I'll post this again.

Warner has not relinquished his grip on that football. It's not like a runner with the ball in his arms where any movement constitutes a loose ball.

Apparently it is like a runner according to the NFL's VP of officiating, who says something like "you can see the ball turn in his hand..." as he explains in "Official Review" on NFL.com why it was a fumble. The QB must maintain complete control of the ball until it leaves his hand. He also says they should have sent the play down for the ref to look at even though it wouldn't have changed anything. If you've read my earlier posts you know I'm not defending the p***-poor officiating in this game, but the fumble/not a fumble ruling wasn't the problem IMO.

Now that's bull . I'm not denying it's presence in the rule book, but the precedence of calls indicate that complete control is not necessary for it to be ruled a forward pass. The rule itself is probably another anachronism from the league's founding days. Kind of like awarding a safety if a forward pass hits your goal post.