Super Bowl XLIII

[highlanders08]

I just saw another replay of the Warner fumble. The ball was hit and started to come lose just before Warner's arm came forward. So the control was lost before the forward throwing motion started. The fumble started before his arm went forward.

Wish I could find a replay online. But I watched for that every time I've seen a replay, and I just don't see it that way.

Of course not.

I'm sorry we're not seeing the same thing. I'm clearly the only one who disagrees with the call.

My bad.

You aren't. I was pulling for Pittsburgh (such as I pull for anyone, anyway), and I also thought it was a forward pass.

HOWEVER, another factor in all this that's been missed (or at least in this thread, up to the point of this post): Warner removed his helmet after both instances where a fumble was ruled. In neither case was he assessed the 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty that automatically should've been assessed for doing so.

So for sake of argument, let's say the fumble becomes an incomplete pass. The Cardinals still would have the ball, with offsetting UC fouls (Warner's for Arizona, Woodley's for Pittsburgh) with the Cards having to throw a Hail Mary, at least 44 yards downfield, to a backfield that no doubt would've been absolutely swarming with 7-8 Steelers defenders. Sorry, but there's no way the Cards pull that one out.

With any other team in the NFL maybe not, but its been proven that any ball in the air can be Fitzgerald's ball no matter where its thrown, so why not review the play and give the Cardinals a fair shot at winning the game?

[eggs44]

Not only that, but with the 15 Yard PF that would have been added on at the end of that play, It would have been the Cards ball on the 35, Pitt buys another one!!!!!!

[The_Admiral]

I was almost certain the Steelers were done for when needing a touchdown and 80 yards away because Roethlisberger has NEVER been clutch in his career when Pittsburgh's need a late game score in a close game.

Erm, pretty sure they put up a statistic about how many late-game drives he's led.

[Sport]

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

That's an ejection plain and simple. On top of shoving the guy over, he threw a punch.

...and the reason the Pittsburgh Steelers shouldn't have gotten another one. They do this in every game. That dick now has another ring.

[Chief.]

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

That's an ejection plain and simple. On top of shoving the guy over, he threw a punch.

...and the reason the Pittsburgh Steelers shouldn't have gotten another one. They do this in every game. That dick now has another ring.

Aside from not ejecting him, I was shocked at the amount of penalties called to keep one of Pittsburgh's touchdown drives alive. It wasn't as bad as Super Bowl XL, but that game was so awfully officiated that the penalties took points off the board and made the game THE most boring Super Bowl I've ever watched. Last night was exciting, but the penalties were frustrating.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

Thank you NFL. Thank you officiating crew. Most importantly thank you Arizona for pulling off the job to the Steelers. All three of you made me $800 richer and I get a free paid day off. God bless Mr. Goodell and the officiating crew and the arizona cardinals in helping the steelers win the super bowl.

[SFCOM1]

Hmm,

I sat watching most of the game, and I'm of the belief in the NFL some of the "Extra Activity" is actualy looked over if it did not affect the overall play.

Could of the game be better officiated...Yes.

Would it have changed the outcome of the game... maybe.

Should the officals have greater accountability in their actions...Yes

Does it matter...NO.

It's a game, yes hearts where broken. Chests thumped, and the trophy awarded. The world still rotates on it's axis, and to the most part we are still here. Perhaps better training, more selectivity in the officals, a more strigent review process on selecting officals is needed.

I just feel bad because I am also a ref (though in High School and JC ball) and rules in our leagues would have ejected on that play automaticaly. And each time it is tollerated it gets harder to control the kids and the coaches. Most players, coaches, and parents watch the NFL, and see the players strut, fight, swear, show off, always claiming "That's how they do it in the NFL", And they wonder where they pick it up. The unsprotsmanship like conduct from both teams makes me sad that the refs did not step up to control the action, and runned what was one of the most entertaining Super Bowls in recent history.

I am finished with the NFL and with this board in general... It has digressed to the point that every one is waiting to see how the officals screw up (and they will, they are only human)...and them place the blame for any loss on the officials. Grow up people, its a game If not then find something else to complain about, or go back to your fantasy leagues. At least in that environment no official "Screw up" will affect your teams. I am tired of the arguements and such.

[eggs44]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

Totally agree! If any one has this on tape like I do go back and look, SEVERAL TIMES in the last 7-2 mins in the game on punts, incompleets or out of bounds plays, the clock opperator let any where from 1-2 sec tick off the clock! This happened at least 6 times witch would have given the cards at least an extra 10 secs. This game was pathic from the beginning! The NFL needs to get back to being FOOTBALL and not all this junk the league had become. I am so close to giving up on the NFl again, I have not felt this angry sence the 2001 season when the NFL MADE SURE the Partiors got to and won that superbowl. Adam kicks a game winning feild goal with 4 secs left....I know, lets just let the clock run oout and say they win!!!! Pathic!

I would be ashamed as a league and I AM ashamed as a fan to call the Pittsburgh Steelers Champions. People like Troy Polamalu who constantly try to run back INTs for TD with the game all ready won and in the closing seconds and players like Ryan Clark who hospitalize good people like Willis McGahee with a cheep shot hit in the CLOSING SECONDS of the AFC Championship game and Players like Ike Taylor and James Harrison play like thugs and players like Hines Ward say "This is the best ever, I love this team!!!" When just a few seasons ago you where holding out for more money and a bigger contract, Its sad when they get to be called world champions and good people and class acts like Kurt Warner, Larry Fitrzgereld and Edgerrin James and treated like crap by the opposing team the the league officials. Absolutely Pathetic NFL.

[BrySmalls]

Thank you NFL. Thank you officiating crew. Most importantly thank you Arizona for pulling off the job to the Steelers. All three of you made me $800 richer and I get a free paid day off. God bless Mr. Goodell and the officiating crew and the arizona cardinals in helping the steelers win the super bowl.

What was the bet?

[McCall]

This was no doubt a horribly officiated game.

- Plenty of petty calls on the Cardinals that, may have been penalties, but were not being called on Pittsburgh.

- Harrison should've been ejected for his beatdown on Francisco. No excuses.

- Roughing the Passer? Whatever.

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

- Clock-running... $#!%

- The final play: I personally think it was an incomplete pass, but the main error was not reviewing it. Whether or not the saw it as a fumble in those 30 seconds or so, it's the call that decides the game. You take the full alotted amount of time and you MAKE SURE, without a doubt, that that was the correct call. THAT's where the refs really f'd up and THAT's where all Cardinal fans have the right to bicker. There is absolutely no excuse for not taking the time to review it. Yeah, many of us would probably still disagree with the call, but at least exhausted all abilities to make sure it was correct. Then we'd just be arguing over judgement of the call. As is, everyone has a legitimate reason to call BS, whether the call was correct or not.

There were plenty of other little calls that should've been made, but this is my rundown of the main ones. All in all, great game, horrible officiating and definately a cloud of uncertainty over whether or not the outcome was correctly decided.

[AJM]

This was no doubt a horribly officiated game.

- Plenty of petty calls on the Cardinals that, may have been penalties, but were not being called on Pittsburgh.

- Harrison should've been ejected for his beatdown on Francisco. No excuses.

- Roughing the Passer? Whatever.

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

- Clock-running... $#!%

- The final play: I personally think it was an incomplete pass, but the main error was not reviewing it. Whether or not the saw it as a fumble in those 30 seconds or so, it's the call that decides the game. You take the full alotted amount of time and you MAKE SURE, without a doubt, that that was the correct call. THAT's where the refs really f'd up and THAT's where all Cardinal fans have the right to bicker. There is absolutely no excuse for not taking the time to review it. Yeah, many of us would probably still disagree with the call, but at least exhausted all abilities to make sure it was correct. Then we'd just be arguing over judgement of the call. As is, everyone has a legitimate reason to call BS, whether the call was correct or not.

There were plenty of other little calls that should've been made, but this is my rundown of the main ones. All in all, great game, horrible officiating and definately a cloud of uncertainty over whether or not the outcome was correctly decided.

Of all the penalties called, roughing the holder was quite possibly the worst...I have never heard this called. What a BS call.

Regardless, congrats to the Steelers on 6...no bitterness here b/c honestly who thought we'd go that far?

[rams80]

According to NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira, the replay official upstairs did see the play clearly.

?We confirmed it was a fumble,? said Pereira. ?The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble. The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control.?

http://www.nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28971640/

News to me.

/seen that ruled a pass more often than not.

I think it is well established that under replay any ball movement constitutes the ball being loose. Whether it detirmining a fumble or whether a reciever had complete control of a catch.

That's only the case if it isn't the QB attempting to chuck the ball. If the arm is moving forward, it's ruled a pass.

------------------------------------------------------

SFCOM-perhaps you need to find a new profession, or need to stop feeling that because the NFL refs end up blowing games, it reflects on you as well.

I will admit I am a sarcastic person at times, but it did seem to me, especially in the second half, the game was being called in two different ways-with a much more strict interpretation of the rules being focused on the Cardinals.

Although...with the amount of money riding on this bloody event, it kind of transcends "it's only a game."

[The_Admiral]

it did seem to me, especially in the second half, the game was being called in two different ways-with a much more strict interpretation of the rules being focused on the Cardinals.

has anybody submitted that the Cardinals got a ton of penalties because the Cardinals are a mediocre team?

[Still MIGHTY]

Also in watching SportsCenter this morning. They showed Santonio Holmes' TD celebration and he did the LeBron powder thing. Tim Hasselbeck said that it shouldve been a penalty, at least by ways of a strict interpretation of the rule book, for using the ball as a prop.

I know it wasnt blatant, but if the NFL has been so up in arms over this crap and calling the celebration by the strictest interpretation, that's another 15 yards the Cardinals have on a kickoff return.

Big deal? meh probably not. but who knows. that 15 yards + the INCOMPLETE PASS + the 15 yards that was assesed after... It would've given the Cards a better shot. Who knows

Just an obsevation really.

[FiddySicks]

This was no doubt a horribly officiated game.

- Plenty of petty calls on the Cardinals that, may have been penalties, but were not being called on Pittsburgh.

- Harrison should've been ejected for his beatdown on Francisco. No excuses.

- Roughing the Passer? Whatever.

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

- Clock-running... $#!%

- The final play: I personally think it was an incomplete pass, but the main error was not reviewing it. Whether or not the saw it as a fumble in those 30 seconds or so, it's the call that decides the game. You take the full alotted amount of time and you MAKE SURE, without a doubt, that that was the correct call. THAT's where the refs really f'd up and THAT's where all Cardinal fans have the right to bicker. There is absolutely no excuse for not taking the time to review it. Yeah, many of us would probably still disagree with the call, but at least exhausted all abilities to make sure it was correct. Then we'd just be arguing over judgement of the call. As is, everyone has a legitimate reason to call BS, whether the call was correct or not.

There were plenty of other little calls that should've been made, but this is my rundown of the main ones. All in all, great game, horrible officiating and definately a cloud of uncertainty over whether or not the outcome was correctly decided.

Of all the penalties called, roughing the holder was quite possibly the worst...I have never heard this called. What a BS call.

Regardless, congrats to the Steelers on 6...no bitterness here b/c honestly who thought we'd go that far?

When exactly did they change this rule? I remember playing long snapper in high school and being so relieved that you couldn't hit the long snapper in high school or college ball like you could in the NFL. I remember my coach made a specific point to let us know that as well.

[slapshot]

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

That's always been there. It's hardly ever called because the defense if aiming for the kicker, not the holder. There's no reason to go after the holder unless you are fast enough to get to him before the ball is kicked.

Totally dumb penalty by the Cardinals, not some B.S. call as you claim it to be.

[rams80]

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

That's always been there. It's hardly ever called because the defense if aiming for the kicker, not the holder. There's no reason to go after the holder unless you are fast enough to get to him before the ball is kicked.

Totally dumb penalty by the Cardinals, not some B.S. call as you claim it to be.

Did they ever replay that penalty so we could judge?

[STL FANATIC]

If it changes angles that means it is coming loose. If you have ever seen any review you would know as soon as the ball starts moving it is considered loose. Thus by your own account it is a fumble.

Here is the official word from the NFL:

Simply not the case.

When a runner has the ball tucked in his arms, and thus no real grip on the ball, then yes, movement from that tuck is considered the ball coming loose.

That's not how it works for a QB. Warner's grip simply shifted to the underside of the ball. These plays are called a fumble when the ball is knocked out of the QBs hand and you can see him bat the ball forward with his empty hand.

In this instance, Warner clearly maintains a grip on the ball, and thus possession, and forces it forward for an incomplete pass.

I don't think it's any surprise to anybody that the NFL would claim the right call was made, or ignore the fact that anything under 30 seconds is not enough time to review such a crucial play. That's how they operate.

Whether the games are fixed in advance or not (and I'm not of the opinion that they are--not outright anyways), the NFL rarely admits doing anything wrong after the fact, and rather takes the "we're perfect" route instead.

[STL FANATIC]

- Roughing the HOLDER? Where the hell did that rule come from? Oh yeah, out of the Official's @$$.

That's always been there. It's hardly ever called because the defense if aiming for the kicker, not the holder. There's no reason to go after the holder unless you are fast enough to get to him before the ball is kicked.

Totally dumb penalty by the Cardinals, not some B.S. call as you claim it to be.

Did they ever replay that penalty so we could judge?

They did. And he knocked the holder over. The only reason I wasn't totally furious about that, is that I don't know if it's an automatic call or not. I've never seen it called, but maybe it rarely happens.

The amount of contact was comparable to a Running Over the Kicker, a 5 yard penalty as opposed to the 15 yard one for Roughing, and for the call that was made. It's a horrible rule of that's the case. It's already hard enough to avoid the kicker.

[fiasco!]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

blah blah blah opperator bla blah blah pathic blah blah blah sence blah blah blah Partiors blah blah blah feild blah blah blah oout blah blah blah!!! Pathic!

I would be ashamed as a league and I AM ashamed as a fan to call the Pittsburgh Steelers Champions. People like Troy Polamalu who constantly try to run back INTs for TD with the game all ready won and in the closing seconds and players like Ryan Clark who hospitalize good people like Willis McGahee with a cheep shot hit in the CLOSING SECONDS of the AFC Championship game and Players like Ike Taylor and James Harrison play like thugs and players like Hines Ward say "This is the best ever, I love this team!!!" When just a few seasons ago you where holding out for more money and a bigger contract, Its sad when they get to be called world champions and good people and class acts like Kurt Warner, Larry Fitrzgereld and Edgerrin James and treated like crap by the opposing team the the league officials. Absolutely Pathetic NFL.

Absolutely pathic.