2009 Confederations Cup

[thestockholmpig]

yeah, stockholm... call him and tell him to quit being a traitor, and play for the country he WAS BORN IN.

I'd like to see the US show up against Spain and give it a good run. A win would be great, but I'm hoping for a competition. I'd also like to see Bradley get some young guys out there, to get them a taste of world-best competition.

I don't want a huge Brett Hull-like,"you traitor!"argument, but I think what Rossi did is completely fine. His parents are from Italy, he grew up cheering for the Italians, and if you had a chance to play for world champions like Italy as opposed to a perennial middle class team like America, wouldn't you take it?

[JQK]

yeah, stockholm... call him and tell him to quit being a traitor, and play for the country he WAS BORN IN.

I'd like to see the US show up against Spain and give it a good run. A win would be great, but I'm hoping for a competition. I'd also like to see Bradley get some young guys out there, to get them a taste of world-best competition.

I don't want a huge Brett Hull-like,"you traitor!"argument, but I think what Rossi did is completely fine. His parents are from Italy, he grew up cheering for the Italians, and if you had a chance to play for world champions like Italy as opposed to a perennial middle class team like America, wouldn't you take it?

No... but i was raised with a love of the country i was born in. Do i root for Germany and Ireland (when Ireland rarely makes a WC apperance), sure i do. But the US comes first.

[-kj]

I guess I can't blame Rossi, but I'm still going to be bitter about it. For years he was basically begging Italy to give him a look with very little chance. He could have then decided to be a big fish for the US and elevate the team of his birth country. I suppose that meant giving up his dream of representing Italy; but that leads to more questions about why players like him, US-born and raised, aren't dreaming of leading the US to glory.

[Breakwood]

I just watched PTI and Around the Horn rip FIFA for allowing the USA to advance on Goal Difference and argue that head-to-head Italy should've advanced. These people must know head-to-head was in effect, and although Italy beat the USA, Egypt beat Italy, and the USA beat Egypt, therefore head-to-head means squat.

Just needed to get that off my chest. It's amazing how these reporters can't even support their own country. I just wish my country was good enough to compete in a tournament like this.

[MattF]

I just watched PTI and Around the Horn rip FIFA for allowing the USA to advance on Goal Difference and argue that head-to-head Italy should've advanced. These people must know head-to-head was in effect, and although Italy beat the USA, Egypt beat Italy, and the USA beat Egypt, therefore head-to-head means squat.

Just needed to get that off my chest. It's amazing how these reporters can't even support their own country. I just wish my country was good enough to compete in a tournament like this.

Just about to make the same comment. The least they could do is research and figure out the tiebreakers.

[rams80]

I just watched PTI and Around the Horn rip FIFA for allowing the USA to advance on Goal Difference and argue that head-to-head Italy should've advanced. These people must know head-to-head was in effect, and although Italy beat the USA, Egypt beat Italy, and the USA beat Egypt, therefore head-to-head means squat.

Just needed to get that off my chest. It's amazing how these reporters can't even support their own country. I just wish my country was good enough to compete in a tournament like this.

Just about to make the same comment. The least they could do is research and figure out the tiebreakers.

I'll admit that was my first reaction when I heard the news, but ESPN was nice enough to flash group standings, so I figured out that a "Circle of Death" was in play.

Oh well, go usa, lah lah lah....

(please don't blow your limited supply of good luck on an ultimately meaningless tournament the year before the World Cup.)

[STL FANATIC]

Brett Hull doesn't compare to Rossi. Canada wasn't interested in Hull, so Hull said fine and played for the country he was raised in and resided in almost his whole life.

Rossi was born and raised in the US, the US wanted him to play, and he spurned them. I don't like him.

I'm with JQK. I don't care what the prestige of the two countries are, I'd play for the United States of America.

To me it's like similar to why I think Rich Rodriguez was such a jerk for jumping to Michigan from his Alma Mater West Virginia. Is Michigan a more prestigious program with a better chance to win the title? Yes (although Rodriguez had himself in position to win it at WVU anyways). But do WVU and Michigan compete on the same level? Do they both have a fair and equal possible path to the title? Yes. You're from WV, you went to WV, why turn your back on them?

[rams80]

Brett Hull doesn't compare to Rossi. Canada wasn't interested in Hull, so Hull said fine and played for the country he was raised in and resided in almost his whole life.

Rossi was born and raised in the US, the US wanted him to play, and he spurned them. I don't like him.

I'm with JQK. I don't care what the prestige of the two countries are, I'd play for the United States of America.

To me it's like similar to why I think Rich Rodriguez was such a jerk for jumping to Michigan from his Alma Mater West Virginia. Is Michigan a more prestigious program with a better chance to win the title? Yes (although Rodriguez had himself in position to win it at WVU anyways). ut do WVU and Michigan compete on the same level? Do they both have a fair and equal possible path to the title? Yes. You're from WV, you went to WV, why turn your back on them?

No. Absolutely, unequivocally No. The financial, training, and recruiting resources available to Rodriguez absolutely dwarf those available to him at West Virginia. West Virginia does not have an equal path to the title, which will be born out over the next few years when the Mountaineer program collapses back into mediocrity, while Michigan goes back to clicking and dominating again.

[STL FANATIC]

Brett Hull doesn't compare to Rossi. Canada wasn't interested in Hull, so Hull said fine and played for the country he was raised in and resided in almost his whole life.

Rossi was born and raised in the US, the US wanted him to play, and he spurned them. I don't like him.

I'm with JQK. I don't care what the prestige of the two countries are, I'd play for the United States of America.

To me it's like similar to why I think Rich Rodriguez was such a jerk for jumping to Michigan from his Alma Mater West Virginia. Is Michigan a more prestigious program with a better chance to win the title? Yes (although Rodriguez had himself in position to win it at WVU anyways). ut do WVU and Michigan compete on the same level? Do they both have a fair and equal possible path to the title? Yes. You're from WV, you went to WV, why turn your back on them?

No. Absolutely, unequivocally No. The financial, training, and recruiting resources available to Rodriguez absolutely dwarf those available to him at West Virginia. West Virginia does not have an equal path to the title, which will be born out over the next few years when the Mountaineer program collapses back into mediocrity, while Michigan goes back to clicking and dominating again.

What I mean by path is that they're both in a high division I and if they had the same record, one would not be easily skipped over for the other for the National Championship the way a school like Hawaii would.

The resources is a legitimate point, but again, they do compete on the same level, and that level is the Bowl Championship Series of Division I in a power conference.

If I'm in that situation, I seek to make the program successful enough that the bucks flow in and I build the program into a power.

Same as if I'm a US soccer player, I realize other countries have a bigger talent base and all of that, but I would hope to put soccer on the map in this country.

I understand Michigan's a better program and Italy's got a better history and current setup by a long shot. But my loyalty to my country (my school, etc.) would trump those things in a heartbeat.

[rams80]

Actually...given how the National Championship is set up, I would assume that Michigan would always have an advantage over West Virginia if the records are equal....based on both the built in bias of polls towards established programs and the amount of fans and TV money Michigan brings to the table.

More importantly, your school and employer are not your country. (Unless we've gone 150 years back in the past.) Ultimately they do not begin to command the sort of loyalty we would like to engender in Patriotic citizens. I will also suggest it helps you abandon what loyalty you have when you realize the people in your ostensible family are all psychotic and prone to hair trigger tempers.

But that is neither here nor there.

Rossi wants to find himself in the best position to win the game's greatest prize.

I have trouble visualizing Team USA doing anything except getting tread on after the group stage. Conversely, Italy is the defending World Cup champion, and is one of only 2 countries to have won it 4 times. Which team has the better chance to win?

[thestockholmpig]

You have to understand that in families like Rossi's and mine, where the parents are immigrants and were born in a country other than the US, that native country is held in higher esteem. I was raised surrounded by Polish immigrants who cheered for Poland in everything from soccer to handball and I'm sure it was similar for Rossi growing up with his entire family focused on the Italian team. It's like being a native Canadian who moves to ,say, Florida. You probably wouldn't switch your allegiance from the Leafs or whatever to the Panthers just because you moved, although I'm sure you'd take a liking to that team. And you'd probably raise your kid as a Leaf fan too. And every kid dreams of playing for his favorite team growing up, so you really can't blame Rossi.

[-kj]

Yeah, like I said, I can't blame Rossi. He knew what he wanted and eventually got it.

But I can still be bitter about it.

Moreover, his team's back in Italy, while the US is in the semis. Undeserved? Perhaps. But dem's da breaks. Italy's a much better team, but the US advanced instead. Nyah.

[Mingjai]

Yeah, like I said, I can't blame Rossi. He knew what he wanted and eventually got it.

But I can still be bitter about it.

Moreover, his team's back in Italy, while the US is in the semis. Undeserved? Perhaps. But dem's da breaks. Italy's a much better team, but the US advanced instead. Nyah.

I don't blame Rossi for choosing Italy, I'd probably make the same decision if I were in his position. Rossi's living the "reverse American dream." I don't consider him a traitor, because traitor is a strong word and soccer's not war. Disloyal? Yes. Unpatriotic? Sure. Traitor? No. I don't think Rossi ever had his sights set on the possibility of playing for the US, even as a young tot.

But that doesn't mean us US soccer fans can't give him hell for his decision. He knew what he was doing. I agree that he's in a similar boat with Rich Rodriguez. From a business standpoint, you can't blame him for taking the money and the prestige. But from a loyalty standpoint, he deserves to be questioned.

[BJBerthiaume]

Okay, say your whole family is from the U.S., you were basically 100% American (if that's even possible?), but you were born and raised in Italy. Your entire family had a dream of someone in your family playing for the U.S.A. in the World Cup. You have been preparing yourself for your enitre life to be placed on the American soccer team. Your ultimate goal in life is to win the World Cup for America. So the time comes, and for some odd reason you decide to play for Italy instead? That makes no sense. If you and your family had dreams of you playing for America, why would you go to Italy at the last minute for no reason. People are more patriotic when it comes to heritage than when it comes to the country they are currently living. Can I blame Rossi? No. I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes.

[STL FANATIC]

Okay, say your whole family is from the U.S., you were basically 100% American (if that's even possible?), but you were born and raised in Italy. Your entire family had a dream of someone in your family playing for the U.S.A. in the World Cup. You have been preparing yourself for your enitre life to be placed on the American soccer team. Your ultimate goal in life is to win the World Cup for America. So the time comes, and for some odd reason you decide to play for Italy instead? That makes no sense. If you and your family had dreams of you playing for America, why would you go to Italy at the last minute for no reason. People are more patriotic when it comes to heritage than when it comes to the country they are currently living. Can I blame Rossi? No. I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes.

Then maybe they should have gone back to Italy...

I don't really feel that strongly about it, because I know how dick-ish that sounds. I don't really feel that way at all. I want to make that clear. People are perfectly free to live here and have whatever feelings of pride and loyalty they choose (I just might not like said feelings).

But I do wonder why people who leave their homeland for America and all the great things it offers sit and take advantage of those things, but keep their pride and loyalty elsewhere. Rossi had the life he did because he lived in America (I'm not suggesting Italy can't offer a nice life, at all, that's just not where he found his), have a little appreciation.

I understand the parents to an extent, but the guy born and raised in the US should take a little bit of pride in that.

But maybe this discussion begins to veer off and should come back by saying that soccer's just a game. Though I'm not sure in the cultural spectrum that's entirely true.

[DEAD!]

Okay, say your whole family is from the U.S., you were basically 100% American (if that's even possible?), but you were born and raised in Italy. Your entire family had a dream of someone in your family playing for the U.S.A. in the World Cup. You have been preparing yourself for your enitre life to be placed on the American soccer team. Your ultimate goal in life is to win the World Cup for America. So the time comes, and for some odd reason you decide to play for Italy instead? That makes no sense. If you and your family had dreams of you playing for America, why would you go to Italy at the last minute for no reason. People are more patriotic when it comes to heritage than when it comes to the country they are currently living. Can I blame Rossi? No. I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes.

Then maybe they should have gone back to Italy...

I don't really feel that strongly about it, because I know how dick-ish that sounds. I don't really feel that way at all. I want to make that clear. People are perfectly free to live here and have whatever feelings of pride and loyalty they choose (I just might not like said feelings).

But I do wonder why people who leave their homeland for America and all the great things it offers sit and take advantage of those things, but keep their pride and loyalty elsewhere. Rossi had the life he did because he lived in America (I'm not suggesting Italy can't offer a nice life, at all, that's just not where he found his), have a little appreciation.

I understand the parents to an extent, but the guy born and raised in the US should take a little bit of pride in that.

But maybe this discussion begins to veer off and should come back by saying that soccer's just a game. Though I'm not sure in the cultural spectrum that's entirely true.

Well, I don't have a big problem with your stance. I'd rather see a player who was born and raised in any country, especially if they have been there their whole lives, play for that country, unless the player takes citizenship for another country. We had this situation with Owen Hargreaves choosing England over Canada a few years back.

But, I think the FIFA also allows players whose parents were forced from their homeland, say Iraq, and at some point their child, who was born in another country, might be able to play for their homeland one the situation subsides.

It's not a soccer issue, a lot of other sports allow athletes to play for another country based of heritage, but more often than not, it's because the player goes to a lesser nation, not the other way around.

[TFoA]

I just watched PTI and Around the Horn rip FIFA for allowing the USA to advance on Goal Difference and argue that head-to-head Italy should've advanced. These people must know head-to-head was in effect, and although Italy beat the USA, Egypt beat Italy, and the USA beat Egypt, therefore head-to-head means squat.

Just needed to get that off my chest. It's amazing how these reporters can't even support their own country. I just wish my country was good enough to compete in a tournament like this.

Just about to make the same comment. The least they could do is research and figure out the tiebreakers.

I think that Tony Reali's tweets about this same topic said it best:

Fact: There is not a sportswriter in the US who can grasp goal differential. (Read that as a tease for PTI, too)

what really grinds my gears about the Soccer discussion is that no sportswriter would bat an eye for a 3-way tie for the NFL Wild Card

Which is exactly right. A team advancing on goal differential is "fishy." A team advancing by whatever the NFL's wacky system is to determine tiebreakers is A-OK.

[twi]

I just watched PTI and Around the Horn rip FIFA for allowing the USA to advance on Goal Difference and argue that head-to-head Italy should've advanced. These people must know head-to-head was in effect, and although Italy beat the USA, Egypt beat Italy, and the USA beat Egypt, therefore head-to-head means squat.

Just needed to get that off my chest. It's amazing how these reporters can't even support their own country. I just wish my country was good enough to compete in a tournament like this.

I'm fairly certain that it wasn't. I don't think head-to-head is used a tie breaker in any FIFA tournament. For as long as I can remember it's been points, the differential, then goals scored.

Also, let's all remember that the US has had foreign born players suit up before. Ernie Stewart, Thomas Dooley, and Tab Ramos have all played World Cup games for the US despite not being born here. Current player Feilhaber was born in Brazil and they're also getting a German native (whose name escapes me) and he's even played for Germany already. Freddy Adu was born in Africa, iirc. The US has received far more than it has lost in regards to foreign national team players.

[DEAD!]

Also, let's all remember that the US has had foreign born players suit up before. Ernie Stewart, Thomas Dooley, and Tab Ramos have all played World Cup games for the US despite not being born here. Current player Feilhaber was born in Brazil and they're also getting a German native (whose name escapes me) and he's even played for Germany already. Freddy Adu was born in Africa, iirc. The US has received far more than it has lost in regards to foreign national team players.

To me, it's not so much about where they are born, but rather, do they have citizenship. If all of the players had citizenship before they decide to play for the US, that is perfectly fine with me. I don't even know if Rossi is an Italian citizen. That's what I would have a big issue with.

[cappital92]

they decide to play for the US, that is perfectly fine with me. I don't even know if Rossi is an Italian citizen. That's what I would have a big issue with.

Considering how children and grandchildren of Italian citizens can get dual-citizenship, I'd be rather surprised if he wasn't.